Master Meter

[jgnelson]

just a simple question, when I render a song to any file type, I set the levels at -0.2 at the Master. when I try to play the song back through Reaper, it goes into the RED every time. is this normal?

[ashcat_lt]

What format are you rendering to? MP3 encoding will almost always do that. Reasampling (sample rate conversion) can sometimes do it, too.

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

What format are you rendering to? MP3 encoding will almost always do that. Reasampling (sample rate conversion) can sometimes do it, too.

it does not matter, Wav or MP3 it pegs the RED when I place it in Reaper to play

[crimsonmerry]

Is there any limiting/clipping plugin on the master track to catch those peaks for you?

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by crimsonmerry

Is there any limiting/clipping plugin on the master track to catch those peaks for you?

Yes I use izotope for mastering and it is set for -0.2 so when I render the file to a MP3 or a Wav file it all looks good until I pull the MP3 or the Wv file I rendered back into Reaper and just play it with no plugins it goes right into the red

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by jgnelson

Yes I use izotope for mastering and it is set for -0.2 so when I render the file to a MP3 or a Wav file it all looks good until I pull the MP3 or the Wv file I rendered back into Reaper and just play it with no plugins it goes right into the red

Just rendered another file this morning, I made some changes, I put the peak at -0.5 during the mastering phase, rendered it to a MP3 and pulled it back into Reaper for listening, goes right to RED, it has to be Reaper. it does not do it in any other DAW

[Greenerpastures]

Originally Posted by jgnelson

Just rendered another file this morning, I made some changes, I put the peak at -0.5 during the mastering phase, rendered it to a MP3 and pulled it back into Reaper for listening, goes right to RED, it has to be Reaper. it does not do it in any other DAW

What does it not do in any other DAW.
Do you mean the mp3 or wav you rendered via Izotope
goes into the red only on Reaper but plays at
the exact -0.2 or -0.5 in every other DAW.

If so then you don't really have a problem,
Reaper and Izotope would seem to have done their job.

Just turn down the track gain in Reaper during playback.
Maybe there is change in meter between playback and rendering,
such as rms or peak,
if you take your track and try to render it again and note the levels
given, without alteration should they not be the same as when you rendered
first time around, if they are not, then why.

The general public will not be listening to music on Reaper, so Reapers
gain settings need not reflect or default to any particular level.
Setting levels is why there are sliders there, its only the output that matters
regarding the final product, and you would seem to have achieved this goal,
am quite sure if you turn the gain down it won't be in the red.

[bezusheist]

Is there any sample rate conversion going on at render ?

[Judders]

Short answer: no, it's not normal.

Stick to wav for now, for troubleshooting purposes. Are you bringing the wav into a completely empty new project set to the same sample rate as the wav file?

How many dB's are you going over by?

[Bri1]

rendered it to a MP3 and pulled it back into Reaper for listening, goes right to RED, it has to be Reaper. it does not do it in any other DAW

Are you sure this happens nowhere else?
It's being reconverted back to floating point brother/sister.

[Greenerpastures]

Reaper magic, I have my own music collection,
and noted that they always sound different
when played back in reaper, louder too, but for
me this was only a bonus, same media sounds
almost the same in VLC, but not so in windows media player,
all on the same computer.

Some people on Linux forums advise avoiding certain
internal sound cards as they boost and colour.
Probably not the problem here as the OP states other
DAW 's are fine, are they on the same computer though.

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by Judders

Short answer: no, it's not normal.

Stick to wav for now, for troubleshooting purposes. Are you bringing the wav into a completely empty new project set to the same sample rate as the wav file?

How many dB's are you going over by?

Yes it is a complete new project, I have done it both ways, Wav and MP3 - the reason this all came up was some radio stations complained that my songs were to hot, going in the RED, so that is why I played the Wav back through Reaper and noticed the RED. No mater how low I record it it goes over 00

Someone also asked was I doing a conversion on the rate, yes I record at 64 on everything, and when I render my mix down to a srereo Wav it is still 64, then I master in a completly different project, and render the Master down to 16 but.

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by bezusheist

Is there any sample rate conversion going on at render ?

I render down from 64 to 16 in the master process

[Bri1]

Originally Posted by jgnelson

I render down from 64 to 16 in the master process

^This reply points to user 'error'.
You type your 'mastering' -yet still have not 'mastered' the ¦basics¦?

[bezusheist]

Originally Posted by jgnelson

I render down from 64 to 16 in the master process

Not the bit depth, the sample rate...(44.1 kHz 48 kHz, etc)

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by Greenerpastures

What does it not do in any other DAW.
Do you mean the mp3 or wav you rendered via Izotope
goes into the red only on Reaper but plays at
the exact -0.2 or -0.5 in every other DAW.

If so then you don't really have a problem,
Reaper and Izotope would seem to have done their job.

Just turn down the track gain in Reaper during playback.
Maybe there is change in meter between playback and rendering,
such as rms or peak,
if you take your track and try to render it again and note the levels
given, without alteration should they not be the same as when you rendered
first time around, if they are not, then why.

The general public will not be listening to music on Reaper, so Reapers
gain settings need not reflect or default to any particular level.
Setting levels is why there are sliders there, its only the output that matters
regarding the final product, and you would seem to have achieved this goal,
am quite sure if you turn the gain down it won't be in the red.

I do understand your point, but I was thinking if it is off in Reaper, how do I know it is not in others, as I said I had some radio people tell me they could not use it, I then sent them another one that I reduced the headroom again to -0.5

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by bezusheist

Not the bit depth, the sample rate...(44.1 kHz 48 kHz, etc)

no it is all 44

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by Bri1

^This reply points to user 'error'.
You type your 'mastering' -yet still have not 'mastered' the ¦basics¦?

sorry let me be clear
I record at 44.1khz 64 bit
I master to 1411kbps 16 bit

[Greenerpastures]

Originally Posted by jgnelson

I do understand your point, but I was thinking if it is off in Reaper, how do I know it is not in others, as I said I had some radio people tell me they could not use it, I then sent them another one that I reduced the headroom again to -0.5

I thought you said it went into the red in Reaper,
and the radio station also confirmed they were too hot,
so you do know it is definitely too hot,
the other DAW's did not inform you of this, which is also strange
and has me thinking a metering error.

It is indeed rather odd, but Reaper looks to be putting
out what you put in, too hot, just to reword this,
your mastered track played via Reaper and the radio station
is too hot, because it first came out of Reaper too hot,
or at least this is what looks to be happening,
so what is Reaper doing to make your mastered track too hot,
you said you tried mastering at -0.2 and -0.5 and ended up with the same results,
that alone should indicate that your settings are not being adhered to.
So, what is overriding them.
Try mastering again and reduce the headroom by the same amount it plays too hot, if they are at +2
then reduce them by at least 2 and see if the changes are reflected.
Someone else asked how many dbs you are going over into the red, may be you can reduce
by that amount and see what the outcome is.

[jgnelson]

Originally Posted by jgnelson

just a simple question, when I render a song to any file type, I set the levels at -0.2 at the Master. when I try to play the song back through Reaper, it goes into the RED every time. is this normal?

I want to thank all that responded, not sure what it is but I am working around it. thanks again for the advice...

[heda]

Limit at -1.1
Use a truepeak limiter
There is no need to use -0.2
And it is not recommended.

[Greenerpastures]

Originally Posted by jgnelson

I want to thank all that responded, not sure what it is but I am working around it. thanks again for the advice...

Here is a post where a setting is discussed, and outlines
a few ways to turn down the volume.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=195313

[Greenerpastures]

I just did as you did, rendered some tracks,
left master and track fader at 00,
brought same tracks back into reaper,
ab 'd against the original,
and got identical readings on the meters in Reaper
for both the original and the rendered tracks,
and I mean absolutely identical, which surprised me,
because the original track carried a lot of cut, -12db, (this was a test)
and when ab 'd with the rendered version, the rendered version mimiced this,
both versions played at the exact same level, which was -7.3db,
the same level both the original and the track to be rendered played at in Reaper
before being rendered.

[ashcat_lt]

I answered the question in the first reply.

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

MP3 encoding will almost always do that.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

I answered the question in the first reply.

How does that explain it happening with wav files also?

[ashcat_lt]

Originally Posted by Judders

How does that explain it happening with wav files also?

I don't believe that actually ever happened.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

I don't believe that actually ever happened.

Haha!

Fair enough

[FnA]

Originally Posted by jgnelson

it does not matter, Wav or MP3 it pegs the RED when I place it in Reaper to play

I've had plenty of imported Wavs trip the clip indicator at 0.0 ( ) but they don't go beyond that. mp3 is different.

[Floflow]

Ok this is probably a stupid guess but I think it may come from the pan law.

When you put specific pan settings on a track (Dual pan and gain compensation) there is a bug that applies twice the gain compensation, so the output volume is 3 dB too loud (if your pan law is -3.0 dB).

Attachments show what happens when I play a normalized file with dual pan vs stereo pan.




... Should I report this bug?

[ashcat_lt]

I don't think that's a bug. You asked it to boost gain by 3db when hard panned. Then you panned both channels hard, and it boosted them. Just like you asked. I bet if you turned the pan knob on the Stereo Pan track, it would happen there too.

[Floflow]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

I don't think that's a bug. You asked it to boost gain by 3db when hard panned. Then you panned both channels hard, and it boosted them. Just like you asked. I bet if you turned the pan knob on the Stereo Pan track, it would happen there too.

Makes sense... but it's confusing!