Old 09-17-2017, 03:30 AM   #281
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I'm playing with new automation items and I've a question about them.

Can I lock an automation item to avoid automation recording in touch mode?
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Old 09-17-2017, 03:32 AM   #282
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Nope.
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Old 09-17-2017, 04:02 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Nope.
Ok, it should be a feature. Very usefull in certain circumstances.

May I suggest a random shaping feature too? Maybe with a fader for randomization amount.
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:48 AM   #284
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Playing with AI, very nice thing.
But I'd like to have something like the regular item "snap offset".
This way I could easily drag or copy AI that have a small fade in before the beat.
Am I missing something?
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:02 AM   #285
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AFAIK, you can't create fades in AI's.
Furthermore, snap offset in AI's isn't implemented either.

Maybe both will be implemented later on, dunno really.
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:37 AM   #286
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You can fade AIs by stacking one AI on top of another, at least...
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Old 10-02-2017, 11:51 AM   #287
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" Maybe both will be implemented later on, dunno really. "

I hope this.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:50 PM   #288
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Is it hard to implement AI reversing?
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:57 AM   #289
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You can select an automation item and run the action "envelope: reverse points." However, that will reverse all instances of the same automation item pool, if you are using pooled automation items.
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:59 AM   #290
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You can select an automation item and run the action "envelope: reverse points." However, that will reverse all instances of the same automation item pool, if you are using pooled automation items.
Ok, thank you a lot, Schwa! Is it possible to implement AI buttons like media items have? I mean these:

I know that not all of them can be used for AIs, but is it possible to implement volume knob, mute button and some other buttons?
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:02 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
Ok, thank you a lot, Schwa! Is it possible to implement AI buttons like media items have? I mean these:

I know that not all of them can be used for AIs, but is it possible to implement volume knob, mute button and some other buttons?
Not going to lie.. that would be super useful to have!
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:21 AM   #292
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1) For easy insertion of AIs in multiple lanes, it would be nifty if the left-drag mouse modifier for "Draw a new automation item" could be made to work on all lanes touched. AIs could therefore be drawn on all lanes with a single swipe.

2) Would it be possible to make the edge point interpolation more accurate?

Before inserting AI:


After, showing inaccurate edge points:
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:32 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Would it be possible to make the edge point interpolation more accurate?
How are you inserting that automation item? What normally happens is that the curve is rendered at the edges, like this:




... which is different from your screenshots.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:38 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
How are you inserting that automation item? What normally happens is that the curve is rendered at the edges, like this:




... which is different from your screenshots.
Schwa, why create interpolated points when the captured AI could be generated by seeking back to the closest previous point, seeking forwards to the closest next point, and trimming the edges of the AI inward? That way the curves are perfectly preserved.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:38 AM   #295
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For more praticity it should be better if there is always one point at the edge of AI.

We don't have to add one point if we want to move the envelope at the edge because there is already one point.



Last edited by ovnis; 10-16-2017 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:13 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
How are you inserting that automation item? What normally happens is that the curve is rendered at the edges, like this:
I am using just plain right-click -> Insert new automation item, or the mouse modifier for "Draw new automation item".



I am using these options (but they don't make any difference to the accuracy):
Options: Remove points from underlying envelope when creating automation items = OFF
Options: Automation items do not connect to the underlying envelope = ON
v5.60pre13
Attached Images
File Type: gif Drawing automation item.gif (53.8 KB, 1094 views)

Last edited by juliansader; 10-16-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:19 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I am using just plain right-click -> Insert new automation item, or the mouse modifier for "Draw new automation item".
Could you post your reaper.ini file, and a simple .rpp with the envelope shape saved prior to creating the automation item?


... also, for clarity, what REAPER version is this?

Last edited by schwa; 10-16-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 10-17-2017, 04:37 AM   #298
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The attached RPP should demonstrate the edge point issue even in a pristine portable install of 5.60rc1 x64.
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Old 10-17-2017, 04:56 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
The attached RPP should demonstrate the edge point issue even in a pristine portable install of 5.60rc1 x64.
Wow, thanks! What a strange bug, it is actually unrelated to automation items, but easy to fix.
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:06 PM   #300
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When Ctrl-dragging multiple AIs, they jump to the left, away from the mouse:



----------------------

Ctrl-dragging media items do not properly trim the edges of their AIs (but Ctrl-dragging the AIs themselves, do trim):



----------------------

The combination of "Copy selected area of items" with Paste
* 1) properly copies automation outside item boundaries (which is very important for proper automation of reverb, for example; see Area Selection Showcase thread), and
*2) correctly trims the edges of AIs to the time selection boundaries,
whereas "Duplicate selected area of items" does neither:

Before copying or duplicating:


After copy/pasting:


After duplicating:

Last edited by juliansader; 10-28-2017 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:31 AM   #301
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At present (v5.60rc), moving or copying media items together with automation items is an uncomfortable mixture of
* The old option "Envelope points move with media items", and
* Selection status of automation items.

If the option is inactive, no automation (not even selected AIs) move with MIs.
If the option is active, selected AIs (even those outside the MI boundaries) move with the MI, but UNselected AIs below the MI also move (even those in hidden envelope lanes).

I think it would be useful if unselected AIs could (optionally?) be excluded from moving/copying/duplicating actions, similar to how unselected MIs are ignored.** This would allow the user to accurately specify which MIs and automation should be moved or copied.


EDIT: Continuing the theme of selected vs unselected AIs:

The right-drag mouse modifier action "Select items and time" currently selects non-visible AIs in hidden envelope lanes. I suggest that hidden lanes should be skipped, similar to how media items in hidden tracks are skipped.


** EDIT 2: Perhaps, similar to how the Ripple Editing toolbar button works, the "Envelope points move with media items" button could cycle between 1) Off; 2) Envelope points and selected AIs move with media items; and 3) Only selected AIs move with media items.

Last edited by juliansader; 10-23-2017 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 10-26-2017, 10:48 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
The combination of "Copy selected area of items" with Paste
* 1) properly copies automation outside item boundaries (which is very important for proper automation of reverb, for example; see Area Selection Showcase thread), and
*2) correctly trims the edges of AIs to the time selection boundaries,
whereas "Duplicate selected area of items" does neither:
In v5.65pre1, the "Option: Trim content behind automation items when editing" is not yet obeyed by either of these duplication actions ("Copy selected area of items"/Paste and "Duplicate selected area of items").

The option is obeyed when dragging an item with its automation, or when Ctrl-dragging the selected area of an item.


EDIT: Also note the related bug when copying "within time selection" with normal automation envelopes: Copy selected area of items" / "Paste" bug when more than one item in time selection

Last edited by juliansader; 10-28-2017 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:01 AM   #303
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The action "Envelope: Insert automation item" and the API function InsertAutomationItem both have the side-effect of deselecting all other AIs.

I suggest that the insertion of a new AI should not affect other AIs' selection status at all.

If other AIs are left undisturbed, the user can easily insert several new AIs (which are automatically selected when inserted) and then move them all together, without having to laboriously re-select previous AIs that may be scattered among other tracks and envelopes lanes.
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:11 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
The action "Envelope: Insert automation item" and the API function InsertAutomationItem both have the side-effect of deselecting all other AIs.
Fair point, but the current behavior does mirror what happens when you insert media items.
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:29 AM   #305
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Default AI BUGs(??)

Hello everybody! I was trying to incorporate into my workflow the "insert new automation item when writing automation" feature whith "trim content behind AI when editing" option enabled and unfortunately encountered this BUGs(?):
1.
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/32013/AI%2...orter%20AI.gif
2.
https://stash.reaper.fm/32014/AI%20B...0with%20AI.gif
3.
https://stash.reaper.fm/32016/AI%20B...%20enabled.gif
4.
https://stash.reaper.fm/32015/AI%20B...d%20tracks.gif
Or maybe i'm doing something wrong?
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Old 10-29-2017, 02:09 PM   #306
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Default Weird behaviour with attaching point on the side of AI

https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/80...rdbehavior.gif

2 AI

-first AI swicth to connect on right side -> ok

- second AI switch to connect on both side -> ok

- second AI back to "not connect" -> bug the first AI loose its attachement



Other bug

https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/99...dbehavior2.gif

No attachement of AI (bypass envelope under)

Create 2 AI

in read mode :

-Track volume BEFORE first AI has the first AI value which is make no sens

- Track volume BETWEEN both AI keep first AI value ????

- Track Volume AFTER second AI keep second AI value???

I really don't get it???

Last edited by Reno.thestraws; 10-30-2017 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:29 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
No attachement of AI (bypass envelope under)

Create 2 AI

in read mode :

-Track volume BEFORE first AI has the first AI value which is make no sens

- Track volume BETWEEN both AI keep first AI value ????

- Track Volume AFTER second AI keep second AI value???

Completely by design.
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:40 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
-first AI swicth to connect on right side -> ok

- second AI switch to connect on both side -> ok

- second AI back to "not connect" -> bug the first AI loose its attachement

These actions set the preference for the entire envelope, it does not apply to individual automation items.

Last edited by schwa; 10-29-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:43 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
These actions set the preference for the entire project, it does not apply to individual automation items.
in the licecap, I used the envelope actions, not the "options" ones

It's confusing

If I set the first item to attach on right side, why the hell did he loose these behavior if I swtich back the second one?
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:46 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iv_Karev View Post
Hello everybody! I was trying to incorporate into my workflow the "insert new automation item when writing automation" feature whith "trim content behind AI when editing" option enabled and unfortunately encountered this BUGs(?):
1, 2, and 4 appear to be bugs; thanks for the report. 3 is intentional behavior -- the preference is to trim content when editing, not when writing automation.
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:47 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
in the licecap, I used the envelope actions, not the "options" ones

It's confusing

If I set the first item to attach on right side, why the hell did he loose these behavior if I swtich back the second one?
Sorry, I thought you were toggling the project options. As you say, you are toggling the envelope options, which apply to the entire envelope, not the individual automation items.
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:53 PM   #312
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OK, I understand

But it's confusing imho

Maybe some dedicated AI action would be more intuitive

Or maybe some kind of "fade in extension" & "fade out extension" section on each AI that would link the start and end to the existing envelope (other AI)

no fade -> actual behavior

"fade in" -> link from previous AI or previous envelope to the start of AI

fade out -> link from AI end to next AI or existing envelope


just thinking out loud
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Old 10-29-2017, 05:04 PM   #313
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It's not confusing at all. Envelope actions apply per envelope, it's that simple. If you don't want the underlying envelope to be visible, then there's no point in asking for fade ins/outs in that mode - this is for the mode where there IS an underlying envelope, and is connecting to AIs on both sides.
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:26 AM   #314
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Quote:
If you don't want the underlying envelope to be visible, then there's no point in asking for fade ins/outs in that mode - this is for the mode where there IS an underlying envelope, and is connecting to AIs on both sides.
Huh?

where and when did I say that I don't want the underlying env to be visible?

Re-read my post and click on the first licecap link

https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/80...rdbehavior.gif
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:56 AM   #315
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3 is intentional behavior -- the preference is to trim content when editing, not when writing automation.
Although it does make sense to either add an option to trim content when writing automation, or link that behavior to the existing option.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:10 AM   #316
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Link to existing option
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:46 AM   #317
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Although it does make sense to either add an option to trim content when writing automation, or link that behavior to the existing option.
What option we are talking about? Where one can find one).
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:24 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Iv_Karev View Post
What option we are talking about? Where one can find one).
Options > Preferences > Editing Behavior > Automation, bottom checkbox on right > Trim content behind automation items when editing or writing automation

You'll also find that option in Action list so you can add it to a shortcut key/toolbar button
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:42 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Options > Preferences > Editing Behavior > Automation, bottom checkbox on right > Trim content behind automation items when editing or writing automation

You'll also find that option in Action list so you can add it to a shortcut key/toolbar button
Ha! Thank you for the answer! But what i meant to ask is, link to what existing option was proposed by Schwa and EvilDragon. Sorry for the confusion...
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:55 AM   #320
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Latest 5.65pre: + Envelopes: option to trim content behind automation items when editing also trims when writing automation
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