Tempo Maps ~ How do I use them?

cricket · 05-19-2015, 03:58 PM

So I've been looking into downloading some loops and this certain pack I want has tempo maps. I'm sure it's not just a ProTools thing, is it?

I DL'd one to try out and I see that it fluctuates the tempo to match the drums.

How do I use a Tempo Map in Reaper, or even Reason if you know how it applies there too.

How do I quantize to it? Heck, how do I really use it?

Thanks guys

foxAsteria · 05-19-2015, 06:56 PM

tempo map changes the tempo. timebase determines whether items follow the tempo map or linear time. midi items and audio items do not respond the same to timebase by default.

when you drag loops out of reaper's media explorer, you can optionally automatically match the length to the current tempo, provided they are musically sliced (even measures or beats long).

you create a tempo map in reaper with tempo/time sig markers or by editing the tempo envelope on the master track.

cricket · 05-20-2015, 03:09 PM

The most important part of the question was "How do I quantize the rest of my MIDI data to that tempo map in Reaper?"

No one knows?

foxAsteria · 05-20-2015, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricket

The most important part of the question was "How do I quantize the rest of my MIDI data to that tempo map in Reaper?"

No one knows?

same way as ever. do it from the midi editor or use sws actions to do it from the arrange (search quantize in the actions window).

it's all in the user guide, young jedi...

cricket · 05-20-2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

same way as ever. do it from the midi editor or use sws actions to do it from the arrange (search quantize in the actions window).

it's all in the user guide, young jedi...

Fox, I appreciate the help.

Say I add my piano over the drums. So just quantize as normal? How is Reaper using the Tempo Map to affect the quantizing of the MIDI notes I just recorded?

When I highlight all notes in the MIDI viewer and hit Q to quantize, is Reaper using the tempo map to tell it where 1/16 is for example?

Because if theres a tempo map, it's no longer a normal 1/16 quantize...correct?

I've used Reaper over 2000 hours. I'm more looking for someone who can nutshell it to me than the manual.

Once I drag that tempo map file into a Reaper session, Reaper wisely knows its a tempo map track and adjust all quantizing functions to that?

foxAsteria · 05-20-2015, 05:34 PM

no, tempo map is global. there is only one. it's simply a linear (or square if you want) envelope for bpm on the master track. changing bpm changes position of the grid and therefore the quantize positions.

if your loops claim to have a "tempo map" built in, i'd imaging that's nothing more than an embedded tempo to indicate the original value. really nothing exciting. maybe other daws can adapt to it automatically but i think in reaper you will have to drag it in like normal, create a time selection for it, and then use one of the "detect tempo" actions to create the appropriate tempo markers for you.

you're better off imo using the tempo match functions of the media explorer when you drag the loop in and set your project bpm to something that works well with the source material.

maybe if you post a link to these "tempo mapped" loops i can have a better idea what that's intended for.

cricket · 05-20-2015, 07:39 PM

I know its Global, that's why Im asking if it affects the quantize funtion in Reason once a Tempo Map File is inserted into the session. Which I guess it does. I'm new to them for sure.

Go here: http://www.drumdrops.com/recording/p...e-vol-1?page=2

You'll see the different songs/beats available.

Click on the little "Cart" icon and you'll see what each loop pack offers. Hover over the "Multitrack" option

I think then you'll know what I'm talking about.

When I drag a Tempo Map file into a Reaper session, does it now quantize according to that tempo map? That's the question.

If the Tempo Map file is in Reaper session.....then I add keys.....open MIDI viewer and "select all notes"....then hit Q and it brings up the little dialog - is it quantizing like Reaper always does, or is it paying attention to the inserted Tempo Map file to make Quantizing adjustments from?

foxAsteria · 05-20-2015, 08:24 PM

ok so the tempo map file is just a midi file according to the site. i have no experience with using midi files to create tempo maps, but i can tell you with some certainty that, if anything, the file will only alter the tempo envelope for your project. quantization itself will not change, only the relative grid positions.

i did a bit of googling and it does seem reaper is capable of importing and exporting tempo-mapped midi files. many threads on it as well.

nothing much will change for you, just the tempo will have a more "human" feel to it. you'll likely get a tempo marker at each quarter note with slight variations of bpm from one to the next.

EDIT: it's really simple---when you drag the midi file into reaper, there is an option to import the tempo map. it adds the embedded map as tempo markers just like i thought. they will start at the position you drag the item to. quantization will work like normal.

cricket · 05-20-2015, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

ok so the tempo map file is just a midi file according to the site. i have no experience with using midi files to create tempo maps, but i can tell you with some certainty that, if anything, the file will only alter the tempo envelope for your project. quantization itself will not change, only the relative grid positions.

i did a bit of googling and it does seem reaper is capable of importing and exporting tempo-mapped midi files. many threads on it as well.

nothing much will change for you, just the tempo will have a more "human" feel to it. you'll likely get a tempo marker at each quarter note with slight variations of bpm from one to the next.

EDIT: it's really simple---when you drag the midi file into reaper, there is an option to import the tempo map. it adds the embedded map as tempo markers just like i thought. they will start at the position you drag the item to. quantization will work like normal.

Ok....now we're getting on the same page

~ Yes, it will alter the whole session Tempo. I know this. That part is cool. My initial inquiry had to do with hitting quantize and if it was quantizing to the Tempo map file...or not.

Yep, its totally simple to drag and drop the Tempo Map file into a Reaper session. That takes us to....

"quantization will work like normal"

Now....do you mean it will work in reference to that MIDI Tempo Map.....or no? Is it going to quantize to 1/16 WITH THE TEMPO MAP IN MIND....

or just quantize to 1/16 like it always does?

cricket · 05-20-2015, 09:42 PM

Because that is what is optimal here...

Quantizing TO the Tempo Map. I don't want my Piano quantized to 1/16 like it does out of the box....

I want it to match the imperfectness of the Tempo File.

Anyone??

Is that the purpose the the Tempo Map/File? (I'd imagine/hope/think....ugg :P )

cricket · 05-20-2015, 10:41 PM

When there's markers employed/in the session, then Reaper will adjust any quatization moves in regards to MARKERS?

Does that sound right to anyone?

foxAsteria · 05-20-2015, 10:43 PM

yes, that's the purpose of the tempo map. the tempo map is not the midi file, it's your tempo envelope, which will be extracted from the midi item as a series of tempo change markers, probably quite a lot of them. after that, the midi item can be deleted. this means that the quantization divisions change over the course of the project because the bpm changes often.

and dude, you're way over-thinking this. it will quantize like normal AND it will follow your tempo map because they are the same thing! quantize is always relative to the tempo map. if your tempo map fluctuates, so do the quantization points, as those divisions are always based on the current tempo. has nothing to do with the midi item after you import the tempo map.

but the tempo map does not determine the quantization increment (16ths, 8ths, whatever), that's done in in the quantize dialog as i'm sure you know.

all the tempo map is doing is changing the bpm at certain points. quantization divisions are always going to respect that.
so yes, you are going to be quantizing to the imperfect timing if that's what your tempo map is doing.

foxAsteria · 05-20-2015, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricket

When there's markers employed/in the session, then Reaper will adjust any quatization moves in regards to MARKERS?

Does that sound right to anyone?

tempo/time sig markers. yes, exactly. and they make up your "tempo map."

cricket · 05-20-2015, 10:55 PM

"all the tempo map is doing is changing the bpm at certain points. quantization divisions are always going to respect that. "

That's what I was asking for from the beginning, was if that was so. If after I insert a Tempo Map file, then any further Quantization events are adhering to that file. I guess they are then.

Thanks

foxAsteria · 05-20-2015, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricket

If after I insert a Tempo Map file, then any further Quantization events are adhering to that file.

ok yea maybe it's communication but if you clearly understood how reaper deals with tempo and quantization divisions, as well as how the tempo is extracted from the midi file, you wouldn't phrase your question that way. nothing is adhering to any file. tempo is extracted. nothing more. sorry dude if i'm being an ass, but i kept telling you the same thing in different ways and you kept asking. whatever, it doesn't matter.

cricket · 05-21-2015, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

ok yea maybe it's communication but if you clearly understood how reaper deals with tempo and quantization divisions, as well as how the tempo is extracted from the midi file, you wouldn't phrase your question that way. nothing is adhering to any file. tempo is extracted. nothing more. sorry dude if i'm being an ass, but i kept telling you the same thing in different ways and you kept asking. whatever, it doesn't matter.

"but if you clearly understood how reaper deals with tempo and quantization divisions, as well as how the tempo is extracted from the midi file, you wouldn't phrase your question that way"

Sorry. I didn't ever mean to imply I knew all there was....Hence me making a thread

Thanks for trying to help.

cricket · 05-21-2015, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

but the tempo map does not determine the quantization increment (16ths, 8ths, whatever), that's done in in the quantize dialog as i'm sure you know.

To be fair, I never said it determined it. I asked if when I selected 1/16 as a resolution setting when quantizing the piano track i played over the drums, if it was going to quantize to that tempo that's all over the place in a 1/16 resolution whilst making adjustments for the slight variations the whole time.

Thanks again

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricket

Thanks for trying to help.

"trying to help?"

if i'm being an ass it's because that arrogance is bloody irritating...

cricket · 05-21-2015, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

"trying to help?"

if i'm being an ass it's because that arrogance is bloody irritating...

My arrogance???

Because I said youre TRYING to help?

When you need to look up the file im talking about to bea ble to even be in the conversation, how in the hell am I the one being arrogant?

Halfway thru this thread you learned what I was talking about.

Yes Fox...thanks for "trying" to help.

Your arrogance is actually profound, man. Chill out!

cricket · 05-21-2015, 01:48 AM

So someone telling you that you were "trying" to help them is being arrogant?

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricket

Sorry. I didn't ever mean to imply I knew all there was.

no, you just implied that i wasn't able to answer your question after i did multiple times ("anyone," "no one knows"). that started to get me miffed and make me think you didn't understand something basic.

cricket · 05-21-2015, 01:51 AM

You actually weren't able to answer it.

Quite actually, we both arrived at it at the same time.

You didnt even know the file type I meant at first.

cricket · 05-21-2015, 01:53 AM

" that started to get me miffed and make me think you didn't understand something basic."

Naaaaa......that's not rude at all is it?

Condescend to someone else, please.

You got mad because I found your advice less than stellar?

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 01:54 AM

your damn tempo mapped item was a moot point. reaper deals with tempo and quantization in a certain way that has nothing to do with items. but you kept asking...

cricket · 05-21-2015, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

your damn tempo mapped item was a moot point. reaper deals with tempo and quantization in a certain way that has nothing to do with items. but you kept asking...

You're a pretty rude guy

Take care.

Thanks for trying to help.

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 01:57 AM

you overestimate yourself. that's arrogance. i admitted what i didn't know. what's arrogant about that? yes i'm rude now, cos you've pissed me off and wasted my time by not listening.

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 01:59 AM

i got mad because you think you know things that you clearly do not and slighted me for trying to inform you.

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricket

"reaper deals with tempo and quantization in a certain way that has nothing to do with items"

Holy Bizzaro Land.

This guy...........

Dude...you're acting like an expert to completely the wrong guy right now

go ahead and explain then.

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 02:02 AM

what, because you have 2000 hours in reaper? i have 3x that, but who gives a shit. c'mon now, tell me where i'm wrong.

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 02:06 AM

i know what i know and what i don't. explain tempo maps to me. please.

cricket · 05-21-2015, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

i got mad because you think you know things that you clearly do not and slighted me for trying to inform you.

Actually, as to not cause the board any stress....

Let's just leave it there.

I wont engage.

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricket

Your advice didnt address my question. Period.

it did, actually. but i don't care anymore. go play with your premade reggae beats.

cricket · 05-21-2015, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

it did, actually. but i don't care anymore. go play with your premade reggae beats.

Wow....

No one used to be like this on this board. You're genuinely rude, buddy! My pre-made reggae beats?!

Go ahead and insult reggae-beats if you want, but youre the one looking bad...Thanks again.

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 02:30 AM

what's funny to me is that you can't see you are being an equally large asshole. nobody's ever pissed me off this much on the forums. i guess you just have that magic sauce! and no, i don't care to listen to your productions or hear your opinion of mine. anyways, i thought we were done with this exercise in futility...

cricket · 05-21-2015, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

what's funny to me is that you can't see you are being an equally large asshole. nobody's ever pissed me off this much on the forums. i guess you just have that magic sauce! and no, i don't care to listen to your productions or hear your opinion of mine. anyways, i thought we were done with this exercise in futility...

Glad we both learned something.

Thanks

foxAsteria · 05-21-2015, 02:59 AM

actually i will take your previous offer for having the last word, though i doubt you'll let me keep it...

for anyone following this joke of a thread, this jerk edited most of his posts to make himself seem like less of a jerk. i totally lost my cool, but o well.

cricket · 05-21-2015, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

actually i will take your previous offer for having the last word, though i doubt you'll let me keep it...

for anyone following this joke of a thread, this jerk edited most of his posts to make himself seem like less of a jerk. i totally lost my cool, but o well.

(This all went downhill when I said to him "Thanks for trying to help". I was admitting I still didn't fully get it just as much as I was saying his answer didn't completely answer my question, and then he took offense to that. Talk about butting heads....)

Umm..."Jerk"?

You're actually welcome to have the last word. But not if it's going to insult someone else on the way out. Sorry for the oil and water miscommunication. Back to music.