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Old 03-11-2009, 02:11 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Tonehenge View Post
That Kerry...he really knows how to get this shit going! I guess he's going to be pushing up the value of old Paris components now....
Excellent, then I could dump this POS DAW and get a real one...like PT


hehehe
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:39 PM   #42
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I believe there is a difference between the Mac and PC PAF files. FYI, the Mac files are OS 9 only.
part of the PAF data might be stored in the resource fork, which is a real pain to deal with on anything other than OS9 (or older). is there any way to export Mac files to PC format from the Paris side?
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:46 PM   #43
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part of the PAF data might be stored in the resource fork, which is a real pain to deal with on anything other than OS9 (or older). is there any way to export Mac files to PC format from the Paris side?
Problems between Mac and PC- generated pafs are news to me. I've never had the least problem between Mac and PC pafs, going either way, except for making certain filename/extension conventions are observed.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:48 PM   #44
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Hmm the Peak Pro OS-X generated files actually fail... That likely is a libsndfile bug, which would be very difficult for me to try to fix.
Because I grabbed some very old paf files from a disaster recovery, there's a possibility that they could be corrupted in some smaller or larger way (they were what was close at hand).

I'm creating some .pafs using Peak right now and re-sending them, that ought to give us a better picture of the app's role in this.

edited to add: OK, they'll be finished uploading in about half an hour at - http://kerrygalloway.com/PARIS%20res...ROM%20PEAK.zip

Last edited by kerryg; 03-11-2009 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:59 PM   #45
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Because I grabbed some very old paf files from a disaster recovery, there's a possibility that they could be corrupted in some smaller or larger way (they were what was close at hand).

I'm creating some .pafs using Peak right now and re-sending them, that ought to give us a better picture of the app's role in this.
Ah right...that could explain a lot. Also another thing could be if they are 24 bit files. The Paris format handles that in an, to put it mildly, obscure way. Please do post some new files.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:38 PM   #46
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Also another thing could be if they are 24 bit files. The Paris format handles that in an, to put it mildly, obscure way. Please do post some new files.
There are three files in PAFS FROM PEAK.zip; they're .wav files converted into paf. using Peak. The live one is 16-bit 44.1k; the kik and snr PAFS are 24-bit 44.1k.

I seldom use 48k, but I guess we should probably check it as well ; I'll re-render the same three files at 48k and upload them too.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:26 PM   #47
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There are three files in PAFS FROM PEAK.zip; they're .wav files converted into paf. using Peak. The live one is 16-bit 44.1k; the kik and snr PAFS are 24-bit 44.1k.

I seldom use 48k, but I guess we should probably check it as well ; I'll re-render the same three files at 48k and upload them too.
Now the 16 bit file from PEAK works. The 24 bit ones fail in a way which appears to be an endianness issue. (The sound is loud noise with some faint remnants of the original material.) Are there any Paris generated 24 bit files anywhere?
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:02 PM   #48
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Default Heya Xenakios -

I've put out the call to the PARIS community for it - you might want to check this thread http://kerrygalloway.com/ParisForums/index.php/t/14472/ for uploads in a bit.

I did a Peak file conversion of the previous files into 48k if you still need them - http://kerrygalloway.com/PARIS%20res...ROM%20PEAK.zip

By the way - this file conversion hell (including this wacky noise issue) is *not new* to PARIS users, and it will be VERY NICE to finally put an end to it once and for all.

Last edited by kerryg; 03-11-2009 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:16 PM   #49
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I've put out the call to the PARIS community for it - you might want to check this thread http://kerrygalloway.com/ParisForums/index.php/t/14472/ for uploads in a bit.

I did a Peak file conversion of the previous files into 48k if you still need them - http://kerrygalloway.com/PARIS%20res...ROM%20PEAK.zip

By the way - this file conversion hell (including this wacky noise issue) is *not new* to PARIS users, and it will be VERY NICE to finally put an end to it once and for all.
Unfortunately if this is indeed a problem with libsndfile, a fix may take a long time. (Due to various issues relating to sanity and time I can't/won't fix/develop libsndfile myself.)

Erik de Castro Lopo should likely be informed the 24 bit .paf support is possibly broken. But I'd like a confirmation on the matter first, best provided by testing with a file direct from Paris itself.

edit : if I convert from a wav to a 24 bit .paf with libsndfile's convert tool, it appears to work. So libsndfile's own 24 bit implementation is compatible with itself. The question is then if it's broken for both Paris/Peak produced files or just the Peak produced files.
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Last edited by Xenakios; 03-11-2009 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:32 PM   #50
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edit : if I convert from a wav to a 24 bit .paf with libsndfile's convert tool, it appears to work. So libsndfile's own 24 bit implementation is compatible with itself. The question is then if it's broken for both Paris/Peak produced files or just the Peak produced files.
If that's indeed the problem, then that's not bad news - from our perspective it would be a major and important insight. Obviously if libsndfile was found to have problems with 24-bit paf, then so would everything based on it; fixing that becomes a number one priority for us PARISians. Let's nail that diagnosis down definitively and then I'd take it from there with the developer of libsndfile and get you an update that fixed it.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:26 PM   #51
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Default Just an update, Xenakios -

two PARISians have volunteered to create file sets tomorrow, one set generated by PARIS running on a Mac and one set by PARIS running on a PC. Both sets will contain 16 and 24 bit PAFs at both 44.1k and 48k - I'll link the files for you when I have them tomorrow evening

- K
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:43 PM   #52
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I had a look at the .ppj files from the Paris wiki. Good news: They're not encrypted like Pro Tools .pts and .ptf so technically it's possible to parse them. Bad news: It's tedious and time-consuming and takes _LOTS_ of demo files, as dub3000 mentioned earlier in this thread. Therefore it won't be of highest priority for me since there are project file formats that are more common and better documented - erm, well, documented at all.
Heya 404 - thanks much for taking a look at those files, and that's useful information about the encryption. I think the PARIS community understands that the onus is on us to do the legwork to provide the ppj docs if we want to see ppj supported in REAPER; we're on it.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:03 PM   #53
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Here's a test build for the impatient of the extension plugin :

https://stash.reaper.fm/2421/libsndfilewrapper.zip

It should work with 16 bit .paf files. (Still waiting here for those Paris produced 24 bit files... ) To install, unzip contents and put the DLL files (libsndfile-1.dll and reaper_libsndfilewrapper.dll) into Program Files/Reaper/Plugins.

(Incidentally, the plugin also enables Reaper to read Sound Designer 2 and Apple Core Audio .caf files. The sd2 support however requires the files to be specially divided into 2 components and it's unclear to me how that exactly can be achieved. At least copying the files with Macdrive from Mac formatted CD-R's won't form the files correctly.)
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:41 PM   #54
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Default HEya Xenakios - excellent!

Looking forward to trying it out Saturday - I have Reaper on Mac OSX here, but I'll have to wait to test the extension until my XP box is set back up. I'll make the test files myself at that point if nobody's beaten me to it.

UPDATE: as I was typing this, PARIS user Ted Gerber just beat me to it - you can find a selection of varied pafs here: http://www.brilliantjoe.com/paf_reaper/

(note: the accompanying .ovw files are "Paris overview files" - similar to .reapeaks files. They can be safely ignored unless you're particularly interested in 'em.)
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:59 PM   #55
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Default Annnnd...

by the time I hit "post", PARIS user Aaron Allen notified me that he beat me to the PC version . He'll probably send them to me and then I'll serve them and link them here. I might just throw them into the Reaper file vault too for future reference.

Note: Ted's files are Mac OS9 PARIS-generated files, Aaron's are PC Paris-generated. Both cover 16 and 24 bit at 44.1 and 48k (which is all PARIS can do). That should give the full spectrum of PARIS-generated pafs on both platforms.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:57 AM   #56
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+1 her...and this os for the extra letters needed to post.
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:41 AM   #57
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The Macintosh Paris produced 24 bit files fail. It'll be interesting to see if the PC Paris ones will work...
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:08 AM   #58
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The Macintosh Paris produced 24 bit files fail. It'll be interesting to see if the PC Paris ones will work...
Xenakios. Thanks again for what you've done here. Bugs like this have blocked us and plagued us for so long now we've just kind of accepted it as "the way it is" - but it *doesn't have to be like that*. If we track this down to libsndfile and we get a fix from the developer, that's a significant game-changer for the PARIS community.
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:17 AM   #59
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Default OK -

PC Paris test files are up at stash.reaper.fm in "latest uploads". I'm off to work now but I'll check in later.

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Old 03-13-2009, 11:45 AM   #60
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PC Paris test files are up at stash.reaper.fm in "latest uploads". I'm off to work now but I'll check in later.
All the PC originating files work! My code doesn't yet confirm though if there really are 24 bit files in your package, but if there are, the likely conclusion is that libsndfile's code doesn't handle 24 bit Paris audio files that were made on the Mac correctly on Windows/x86.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:15 PM   #61
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Some thoughts on these issues:

Maybe it's all about missing metadata.

The Mac file system (HFS) separates metadata and actual file data. If you open a Zip file created with a Mac, you'll see a folder named .DS_Store or something. It contains the HFS metadata of the files you zipped, if any; the metadata files are named ._[name of corresponding data file]. AFAIK libsndfile requires both of them to be in the same directory.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:45 PM   #62
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Default So if I'm understanding this correctly,

we may have a problem with Mac generated 24-bit PAF, potentially an endian issue? Once I have a description of the issue, I'll get on passing it on to the developer of libsndfile immediately.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:03 PM   #63
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Default Mac files not zipped

Hi folks - Ted Gerber here. I'm very happy to see developments on the Reaper - PARIS compatibility front. Just a note that the audio files I posted were not zipped. They were uploaded as is via DWeaver. Don't know if this is helpful or not, but I thought it might save time looking in the wrong place for a fix.

One other note, PARIS ASIO has always worked fine with other Mac OS 9 apps, like Peak and Waveburner...

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Old 03-13-2009, 01:26 PM   #64
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we may have a problem with Mac generated 24-bit PAF, potentially an endian issue? Once I have a description of the issue, I'll get on passing it on to the developer of libsndfile immediately.
Yes, that would seem to be the issue. It could be the endianness issue happens only on Windows and/or x86 CPU, but I can't confirm that. Note that 16 bit .paf files created on the Mac do work.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:14 PM   #65
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Default Excellent,

I've notified Erik of that info and given him a link to this thread. He's put out two updates to libsndfile in the last month and a half - Version 1.0.18 (Feb 07 2009) and Version 1.0.19 (Mar 02 2009) - so I'd hope there's a possibility of a quick resolution.

UPDATE: check your inbox

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Old 03-15-2009, 06:39 AM   #66
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Btw, I've emailed Erik, let's hope he has got the email and that I explained the problem properly to him.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:02 AM   #67
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Default Excellent, thanks!

OK, the info's now in the pipeline, so I guess we hang on for a bit and find out what he discovers.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:19 AM   #68
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I'd like to thank all involved for taking on this little venture, trust me I speak for a number of users and it's much appreciated.

Don
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:38 PM   #69
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Default Hey Xenakios,

Just checking in. I'm assuming we're waiting for Erik to get back to us at the moment, but let me know if there's anything further you need in the way of additional files etc.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:55 PM   #70
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Just checking in. I'm assuming we're waiting for Erik to get back to us at the moment, but let me know if there's anything further you need in the way of additional files etc.
Haven't heard anything from Erik. Could be that gmail has yet again lost a sent email of mine. I'll try resending from another email address.

If Erik ever fixes the issue in his code and posts binary builds for Windows, my plugin even in it's current state should work without modifications, you'd only need to replace the libsndfile.dll.

Just to make sure : 24 bit files *do* appear to work when they come from Paris on Windows. Please test my extension plugin and report if there's some obvious problems.
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:18 PM   #71
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Default Excellent, I rather suspected that would be the case.

I'm in the last stages of setting up my studio and I should be able to "light up" the PARIS rig tonight; if that goes well, I have time tomorrow to buckle down and do some testing. I'm really looking forward to it - thanks for the very exciting new possibilities you just brought to the PARIS community!
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:33 AM   #72
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+1 her...and this os for the extra letters needed to post.
You should ask for your money back on some of those extra letters
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:14 PM   #73
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I've emailed Erik again, and included 2 of the 24 bit .paf files, where the other works on Windows, the other doesn't. Hopefully he gets the email this time and finds it interesting enough to consider it a bug and to try to fix libsndfile.

By the way, please consider donating him something, he seems very unhappy about releasing binary builds of libsndfile for Windows without some incentive. (And without binary builds of libsndfile this Reaper extension won't get anywhere even if the 24 bit files fix happens...)

edit : Erik replied. He would like a bit more organized and detailed test procedure for all this. I don't think I currently have the energy to deal with all that. I think I did my part in making the Reaper extension wrapper...Sorry, guys...
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:56 PM   #74
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Default Hey Xenakios -

thank you for your efforts on our behalf already, they're *most* gratefully received and highly appreciated.

Since your extension's all ready to go when libsndfile is, I'll pursue a fix with Erik. The PARIS app is the app that justifies the existence of PAF files (all other apps that read PAF do so for compatibility with PARIS - no other DAW ever used it). So if one's going to bother reading PAF at all, the first priority must be nailing PARIS-generated PAFs.
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:36 AM   #75
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Default Tested and working GREAT!

Finally got my PARIS rig fired up last night (my mobo died in the PARIS comp and I think I just upgraded about four generations in one move ). After getting PARIS dialled I loaded Reaper, installed the extension and pointed Reaper at some .pafs.

BRILLIANT!
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:53 AM   #76
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Default Progress report:

Thought I'd update this with some more info. Erik and I have exchanged a series of emails, and he's asked for some specific files to be prepared for further testing. With the help of the PARIS community I assembled the files and sent them off to him today. Now we hang in there and wait to see what Erik discovers.

I put a link at the top of the PARIS Wiki urging donations to libsndfile (and, needless to say, Reaper licenses!).

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Old 04-11-2009, 07:51 PM   #77
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I've updated the .zip package with a readme.txt crediting Erik de Castro Lopo for libsndfile, nothing else is changed for now :

https://stash.reaper.fm/2597/libsndfilewrapper.zip
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:40 AM   #78
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Default FYI -

Erik de Castro Lopo has posted an update of libsndfile at http://www.mega-nerd.com/libsndfile/ - direct download link is http://www.mega-nerd.com/libsndfile/...-w32-setup.exe

I'll be checking tomorrow to see if the 24-bit PPC PAF issue is fixed...

[looks like libsndfile's 24-bit PPC PAF import is still broken in 1.0.20. I'll post updates as they come in].

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Old 08-01-2009, 11:44 AM   #79
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Default Hey Xenakios -

a user has two PCs, a laptop and a desktop, both running XP, both running Reaper, both with your wrapper and libsndfile properly installed.

Oddly, the extension works (ie PAFS show up) on the laptop - but not the desktop. Even more strangely, Reaper (with wrapper) installed on a USB stick sees PAF on the laptop - but doesn't on the desktop! Any ideas what to pursue here? The desktop is on SP1 and the laptop on SP2 if that makes a difference.
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Old 08-01-2009, 02:21 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by kerryg View Post
a user has two PCs, a laptop and a desktop, both running XP, both running Reaper, both with your wrapper and libsndfile properly installed.

Oddly, the extension works (ie PAFS show up) on the laptop - but not the desktop. Even more strangely, Reaper (with wrapper) installed on a USB stick sees PAF on the laptop - but doesn't on the desktop! Any ideas what to pursue here? The desktop is on SP1 and the laptop on SP2 if that makes a difference.
Well, I've never tested any of my things with older than XP Sp2...Could be a Visual Studio runtime issue on the Sp1 machine...Microsoft has the Visual Studio C++ runtimes for install somewhere on their pages...
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