Old Yesterday, 11:34 AM   #1
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Default Area Selection Discussion

Let's leave the pre threads for its main purpose
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Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM   #2
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I am not really getting the discussion about time selection and it's relation with as. What kind of operation you do with time selection that you want to do with area selection?
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Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM   #3
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How do you create an Area Selection?
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Old Yesterday, 11:53 AM   #4
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I *think* the discussion was about consolidating tools/workflows into a single "marque+area select." Think of Cubase for example: click and drag with the object selection tool just selects things. Those things can be cut, copied, pasted, duplicated or otherwise manipulated various ways.

At least, that's my guess as to what folks are looking for. Unified experience, unified set of actions/behaviors. Maybe a smarter tool.

That said, I think best thing would be to keep to the existing behavior as-is, and build up area selection over time so it can eventually replace the current appraoch so as not to mess with existing workflows/preferences.
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Old Yesterday, 12:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digaldeman View Post
How do you create an Area Selection?
Alt + right-click drag for single area and alt + shift + right click drag to add another area to the selection - multiple.
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Old Yesterday, 12:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I *think* the discussion was about consolidating tools/workflows into a single "marque+area select." Think of Cubase for example: click and drag with the object selection tool just selects things. Those things can be cut, copied, pasted, duplicated or otherwise manipulated various ways.

At least, that's my guess as to what folks are looking for. Unified experience, unified set of actions/behaviors. Maybe a smarter tool.

That said, I think best thing would be to keep to the existing behavior as-is, and build up area selection over time so it can eventually replace the current appraoch so as not to mess with existing workflows/preferences.
Maybe not so difficult to combine both in the future. Area selection takes care of Y and X, while time selection takes care of X. In a single AS (or multiple if considered the total length of the area) there is implicit time selection so Maybe at some point Devs might consider it.

Loop locators (time selection looped) will always have to exist. The non looped time selection I don't know. Personally it's always a struggle looking in the render dialog time selection not referring the the loop version.

Anyway the non looped time selection maybe is quite doable to unify with area selection as I described (it's my feeling .. maybe I am wrong)
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM   #7
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Maybe not so difficult to combine both in the future. Area selection takes care of Y and X, while time selection takes care of X. In a single AS (or multiple if considered the total length of the area) there is implicit time selection so Maybe at some point Devs might consider it.
More than likely, YOU may get to a point where YOU can use AS to do everything you need and YOU can stop using TS. But it will most likely always be there.
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Old Yesterday, 12:30 PM   #8
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You can make the area selection for CC automation in the midi editor. For example, so that you can adjust the tilt for automation. In any case, tilt and compression/expansion is really necessary for automation, and I would like to implement it in any way (without scripts, because it is slower or with API bugs/disadvantages). This applies to both the main window and the midi editor. You can make it in the form of a widget, like the action "Apply LFO to last touched CC lane..." However, in the form of area selection this gives more options (or this gives less restrictions). But even the simplest and easiest widget in some cases would be just a salvation
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Old Yesterday, 12:38 PM   #9
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While Area Selection should do every Time Selection does (and obviously expands on it) there's a few things Time Selection is better suited and should therefore stay separate for.

example: Render To File with Time Selection Bounds. It doesn't quite make sense to select Areas when telling Reaper the time bounds to render, unless getting into some far-down-the-line features like "Render Area Of Items". Not that crazy actually...Cakewalk SONAR could do this! But not really expecting this to be part of the conversation for a while in Reaper...

Loop bounds, etc.
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Old Yesterday, 12:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
While Area Selection should do every Time Selection does (and obviously expands on it) there's a few things Time Selection is better suited and should therefore stay separate for.

example: Render To File with Time Selection Bounds. It doesn't quite make sense to select Areas when telling Reaper the time bounds to render, unless getting into some far-down-the-line features like "Render Area Of Items". Not that crazy actually...Cakewalk SONAR could do this! But not really expecting this to be part of the conversation for a while in Reaper...
The render could consider the loop locators (loop time selection) instead of the non loop time selection as I referred previously. Any other example?
And API time selection functitons could inherit the implicit time selection in an area selection, and so backward compatible. Anyway!
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Old Yesterday, 12:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
The render could consider the loop locators (loop time selection) instead of the non loop time selection as I referred previously. Any other example?
Probably not too many deeb! Enough for them to want to keep them separate though I'm afraid, especially considering people's custom actions etc.

Trust me I want Time Selection completely replaced by Area Selection!

Right now it's a glorified Delete/Duplicate tool, and it's tremendous don't get me wrong! But yeah this should move in the direction of matching Every Time Selection action/process that exists.

Plus, the possibilities are endless. Select an area, and "Solo" the area, or Loop it, or (very exciting for sound designers...) RENDER it like SONAR.
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Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM   #12
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In the meantime it lacks all the powerful stuff Time Selection gives us.

1. Trim time selection in envelopes with 4 points (Ctrl-Shift-Drag on envelope)
2. Render Time Selection To New Track (and all the stuff that comes with that)
etc...

I suspect we'll get it all eventually! If not, yeah we have to keep Time Selection around.
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Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanick View Post
You can make the area selection for CC automation in the midi editor. For example, so that you can adjust the tilt for automation. In any case, tilt and compression/expansion is really necessary for automation, and I would like to implement it in any way (without scripts, because it is slower or with API bugs/disadvantages). This applies to both the main window and the midi editor. You can make it in the form of a widget, like the action "Apply LFO to last touched CC lane..." However, in the form of area selection this gives more options (or this gives less restrictions)
Well yeah it's a new beast! May e after this one is well crafted they are motivated to go in that direction.. I think Manny people would like it, including me.
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Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM   #14
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I've been thinking, what purpose does Time Selection serve now that we have Area Selection? I feel like there could easily be a mouse modifier that creates an area selection from top to bottom, basically mimicking a time selection. Or that's probably not even needed since time selection is just left/right boundaries and area selection can do the same (but also with top/bottom boundaries).

Am I missing something? Mind you this is coming from an ignorant non-programmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanick View Post
You can make the area selection for CC automation in the midi editor. For example, so that you can adjust the tilt for automation. In any case, tilt and compression/expansion is really necessary for automation, and I would like to implement it in any way (without scripts, because it is slower or with API bugs). This applies to both the main window and the midi editor. You can make it in the form of a widget, like the action "Apply LFO to last touched CC lane..."
Area selection in the CC lane is something I would really love to see. It would make general editing (especially copying) of CC envelopes so much easier.
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Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddi View Post
I've been thinking, what purpose does Time Selection serve now that we have Area Selection? I feel like there could easily be a mouse modifier that creates an area selection from top to bottom, basically mimicking a time selection. Or that's probably not even needed since time selection is just left/right boundaries and area selection can do the same (but also with top/bottom boundaries).

Am I missing something? Mind you this is coming from an ignorant non-programmer.



Area selection in the CC lane is something I would really love to see. It would make general editing (especially copying) of CC envelopes so much easier.
Yes yes yes, everything in the MIDI editor, especially CC, would benefit from this.

Now that we do have Area Selection I'll be doing all my CC editing in ReaControlMIDI, until they add it to the MIDI editor of course
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Old Yesterday, 12:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
In the meantime it lacks all the powerful stuff Time Selection gives us.

1. Trim time selection in envelopes with 4 points (Ctrl-Shift-Drag on envelope)
2. Render Time Selection To New Track (and all the stuff that comes with that)
etc...

I suspect we'll get it all eventually! If not, yeah we have to keep Time Selection around.
Simplification with same benefit sounds always good to me I am sure they know it. Good night
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Old Yesterday, 12:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Yes yes yes, everything in the MIDI editor, especially CC, would benefit from this.

Now that we do have Area Selection I'll be doing all my CC editing in ReaControlMIDI, until they add it to the MIDI editor of course
Yeah, I've always done my CC stuff with ReaControlMIDI and Automation Items since it's so much easier to work with. Now with Area Selection it's even faster.
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Old Yesterday, 01:02 PM   #18
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I have not yet been able to dive deep into the pre-release build yet, but I've been pretty eagerly anticipating area selection. In the past, I had a sort of psuedo-area-selection-workflow set up using time selections, but this new area selection implementation will be a lot better. I have used area selection pretty extensively in other DAWs, and there's a few crucial workflow additions that are usually considered with an area selection feature.

I have three questions/thoughts so far:

1. Area selection context-aware actions: One really important addition to area selection, from my experience with it in other DAWs, is an area-selection-aware set of tools. In other words, "Split selected items at edit cursor, or split items at area selection (if area selection present)" or "Delete selected items, or delete selected area of items (if area selection is present)", or even a big comprehensive split action that could be something like "Split selected items at edit cursor or area selection / Add automation point at edit cursor or 4 automation points at area selection (depending on selection)", or, well you get the picture- Context aware actions that take into account whether an area selection is or isn't present. That way, we can keep the same keybind for split, delete, cut, copy, etc, and have it all behave in an intuitive manner to whether an area selection is or is not present. A split splits selected items if there's no area selection, splits at the edges of the area selection if one is present, 'splits' (creates 4 automation points) in an automation lane if an area of an automation lane is selected, splits MIDI notes at edit cursor, etc etc. That way, there's not 4 different keybinds for what should be one context-aware action.
At the moment, I had to create my own "smart split" script to accomplish this with time selections, so it'd be certainly nice if it was natively available.

Are these sorts of context-aware actions planned in addition to the area selection mouse tools?

2. Accidental drawing of tiny area selections with snap off: This one's caused me fairly frequent frustration with drawing time selections with snap off. Let's say you have "Media item top half Left Click" set to "Move edit cursor to mouse cursor" and "Media item top half Left Drag" set to "Draw area selection". With snap turned off, one might try to click but accidentally drag a tiny distance, creating a very small area selection rather than simply moving the edit cursor to the intended location. I've run into this issue many times, since that is currently how I have my Reaper config set, except with time selections rather than area selections. If I leave looping on, I sometimes get blasted with an infernal buzzing noise, or accidentally split a tiny time selection rather than a single point since I can't tell when zoomed out!
Samplitude remedies this by having a "Minimum area selection size" to prevent accidental tiny area selections while clicking. I believe it is set as a certain number of pixels. Is such a feature planned, to prevent accidentally creating tiny area selections when clicking around? It's quite a convenient addition.

3. Mouse modifiers for the new area selection feature: Will there be 'move selected item' mouse modifiers that ignore area selection, as there currently is for ignoring time selection?

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Old Yesterday, 02:20 PM   #19
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for me TS is specifically that, time-selection tool. I want to put/remove/edit/record between this and this TIME... I select that with TS...

Area selection? I need to take this AREA that contains these items/parts of these specific items and do something with just them -> AS...

They're different tools for different things.

AS is more about general editing with a surgical knife and TS is more about the overall time structure of a song or take etc...
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Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM   #20
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Time Selection in REAPER is like Region selection without making any Region Marker.
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Old Yesterday, 05:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
More than likely, YOU may get to a point where YOU can use AS to do everything you need and YOU can stop using TS. But it will most likely always be there.
Agreed.

Time selection is so integrated into the API and tons of scripts. There is no way it's going anywhere... nor should it!!

Replacing Time Selection with Area Section is a non-starter.
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Old Today, 06:52 AM   #22
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Agreed.

Time selection is so integrated into the API and tons of scripts. There is no way it's going anywhere... nor should it!!

Replacing Time Selection with Area Section is a non-starter.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that they remove Time Selection completely and just leave a bunch of scripts unusable.

To me there's a lot of potential overlap so I was theorizing if they somehow could be merged in to one behind the scenes to allow all the time selection based scripts to also understand area selections without any further modification.

Because isn't Time Selection basically just an Area Selection but only on the x-axis?
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