DIY Acoustic panels

[Sunaj]

Hello.

Moved into a new apartment and the room is incredibly ill-acoustically. Coming from my last place of residence where I've had the luxury of not having to do anything to the room really, to get a usable sound. So, whats the cheapest way to deaden the sound a bit with little to no carpentry skills? I only have a hammer and some nails literally. i hear of people using roxul/ rockwool insulation but is there anything I can buy at home depot? what about that pink panther insulation? My aim is to build some type of acoustic panels. I don't have to necessarily hang them but I suppose it would be nice. maybe something I can put behind the microphone. I am limited since I can't glue/ or really nail things to the walls here. Check out the attachment for my room

[timlloyd]

Go here:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...ing-acoustics/

It's better than the reaper forums for such discussion.

The same questions as yours have been asked and answered thousands of times, so here's a good place to start

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...look-here.html

[G-Sun]

You need to answer a few questions:
Tracking and/or mixing?
What kind of instruments are you tracking?
Budget?
Do you need to soundproof?
Just a little better, or a pro solution?

[Sunaj]

I don't really need to sound proof, just need to dead the reflections in the room.

My budget is really small, like, poor man small.

I'm just doing vocals for now.

tracking/ mixing

[grinder]

Sunaj

I had a listen to some of your art
Thought you are getting good results anyway most sound like in the box prepared sounds so solid from the start.
For vocals/narration if you are worried just make up five rockwool 50mm 600x1200 panels one on the ceiling and four around you and make with the vocal chords and microphone in there.
Take your computer monitors to a more tasty place to mix down. That said I found your mixing easy to relate too.

Grinder

"Foorsteps to the Sun"

[partonkevin]

Roxul is available by special order at most home improvement stores. I had to order a pallet of it, but it was less than $150. The pink panther stuff works in a pinch. It's not the best, but it's much better than nothing.

Blankets hanging from the walls really helps deaden reflections. It works best if you can space them away from the wall just a bit. Even an inch or two really helps. Are you able to attach anything to your walls? Nailing a thick board, like a 2x4" piece of framing, right next to the ceiling would give you something to hang a blanket from. A curtain rod would also work. I used some EMT electrical conduit as a rod and clamped a bedspread to it. Everything was available at Home Depot...except the bedspread!

Shelf brackets could also be employed to space a hanging blanket.

[Sunaj]

The most I can do is hang something from the wall. I cant really nail anything to the wall, I'm hoping for a more ' movable' solution that I can take with me in the event I have to make quick moves. Whats the best way to suspend blanks or fix them to a wall? and what kind of blankets do you suggest?Hmm, a curtain rod.

[Sunaj]

Originally Posted by grinder

Sunaj

I had a listen to some of your art
Thought you are getting good results anyway most sound like in the box prepared sounds so solid from the start.
For vocals/narration if you are worried just make up five rockwool 50mm 600x1200 panels one on the ceiling and four around you and make with the vocal chords and microphone in there.
Take your computer monitors to a more tasty place to mix down. That said I found your mixing easy to relate too.

Grinder

"Foorsteps to the Sun"

I was able to get those results, using headphones. I'm not much of a studio monitor person. granted some of those tunes are really old, but mixes like autumn, rhythm L, and down syndrome, Hill, are fairly recent, though still old

[clepsydrae]

Given the constraints you're working with, and if you really are only doing vocal work, I'd say forget treating the room, since you'd need to at least spend a little cash and do a little bit of carpentry/engineering/etc to make the room sound worth keeping. Meaning, throwing up a couple blankets and masking-taping some pink insulation to the ceiling isn't likely to result in a nice room sound (or a dead room sound) and your room won't be much fun to be in anyway.

If you just want a dead recording of vocals, do some google searching for "portable diy recording booth" or "diy vocal recording booth", etc. Basically a little box, maybe a foot or three on a side, that you throw some foam into and put your mic in... cheaper, easier, smaller, etc. Lots of different versions on the web to check out, some more involved, some less involved, different sizes, etc:

https://www.google.com/search?q=port...w=1280&bih=917

Or record in a car!:

http://recordinghacks.com/2013/07/28...u-already-own/

[clepsydrae]

Ah, missed that you are doing mixing, too, right, so a vocal booth might not solve it.

According to many, the best/cheap/smart/simple way for a little room is to pony up for the real OC 703 insulation, build a few simple frames, and build a as many burly fiberglass bass absorbers for the corners as you can afford. I think the last time I priced out materials for a 4x4 4"-thick panel the total cost was something in the $30-50 range each, can't recall.

Otherwise i think you just improvise as you and others have suggested: get your hands on semi-dense stuff like blankets, moving blankets, couches, foam, old mattresses, scrap rolls of carpet from the back alley of the carpet place, etc, and figure out how to stack it up everywhere. :-)

I've seen the dividers they use in office cubicles being given away, and they can make effective gobos. See if there is a used construction supply or furniture place in your area?

[Leo]

If it doesn't matter what it looks like, just get some heavy blankets and hang them on the walls. If you put some neat duvet covers on them it might not even look all that ghetto and it does work If there's a bed and a bunch of pillows in the room that helps too. In extreme poverty, you could open up your closet and bring out all the clothes you have :P

You're looking at hundreds of $$$ with actual acoustic treatment panels and such. You can get by cheaper with some basic construction materials. Rockwool or fiberglass or whatever they call it where you're at is BAD for you. You want it encased. Build a frame for it, fill it up with fiberglass and wrap some good looking cloth around it. You probably already have all the tools you need (hammer, nails, saw, staple gun) to get it done.

[Sunaj]

What would be the easiest way to hang duvet blankets in the room against the wall or something? As you would expect the walls are made of typical drywall and are very weak and I suspect that hanging something so dense wouldn't hold well . Thanks for the replies by the way

[partonkevin]

Easiest way? Hmm. I guess it depends on your building construction. My house has wooden 2x4" framing covered with drywall. Yours could be different...maybe even metal stud framing. Blankets can be heavy.

I can, and have, hammered large nails into my wall framing and hung blankets from the nails. I have also installed shelf brackets to the framing and hung the blankets from that...it allows for more spacing. I have even made a T shaped wooden frame and hung blankets that way.

What about building a wooden frame that basically leans against your walls and attach blankets to that?

Also, building some "proper" panels could be an option. You can make them as light as a large painting or picture frame. You can hang them the same way as a frame. You could also take them down and move them someday.

[thetriguy]

I got my Roxul (used it in a guitar isolation cabinet) at a Drywall supply store that also sells insulation. It comes in a few sizes and works well. Good luck!

[esosotericmetal]

Use OC 703 or Rockwool. Build some frames from some cheap lumber at a hardware store, and wrap them in some cheap fabric (you can find some muslin by the yard on ebay for cheap). I would also wrap the panels in a very thin layer of plastic (you can buy the kind that painters use and cut to size) so that the fiber glass particles don't leak through the fabric. The Insulation on the fabric will be the most expensive, but you should be able to make enough panels to treat your room for a couple hundred bucks. It is well worth the investment.

Blankets and foam are not a very good idea, and could even make things worse actually. They usually only kill the high end while leaving the low end intact, which will throw off your mixing environment even more.

[hopi]

you have a problem ...but it can be solved

1- you can't nail or screw into the walls...so
2- you need some kind of free standing support system
3- you don't have shit for tools, but you can get a couple for little money

I'd suggest you get a hack saw... they are pretty cheap... and see if you can find one of the blades for it that is not like a normal saw but is round and like a file... it looks like a thick metal string with rough particles on it.

Then look into some PVC pipe... plastic water pipe... you may have to look around to find the size I suggest... 1 1/4" schedule 40
I suggest this because it is very strong will not flex as much as the smaller diameter PVC pipe.

Then you want to look at the fittings for it. You will want two kind, maybe even three kinds.

1- 90 degree elbows [these form a corner]
2- Tee [these let you put a cross beam between two other lengths]
3- and maybe a Cross... which is like a double tee and can be used for example in the middle of a larger rectangle to join 4 braces to the Tee's in the other pipes.

Let's now imagine your walls are 8 feet tall... follow along and you can adapt to walls of other heights...

you will want two lengths of about 9 feet each... these will be the verticals
depending on how wide the walls and room are, you will have to figure the horizontal lenghts.

You want to construct something like a ladder shape but with the top and bottom both being a horizontal piece of PVC. How many 'rungs' in the 'ladder shape' is up to you... I'd suggest at least two.

So you could, for example think of making some modules like so:

9 feet tall, 4 feet wide
for each one with two rungs in the middle you will need:

2 - 9 foot pieces
4 - 4 foot pieces
4 - 90 degree elbows
4 - Tee's

This will make you one module frame that a blanket can be attached to.
Then it can leaned against the wall with the bottom a bit away from the wall bottom...

Normally, PVC pipe is put together with a glue, but that is when you intend it to hold water...

For your purpose DO NOT glue it... you want it to be like a tinker toy set that can taken apart if desired.

So just put the joints together and use some black vinyl electricians tape to wrap around the joints... you can always just cut that away to change things....

The suggestion to warp the 'wool' in plastic defeats the purpose of the wool.... you want to create something that is porous to sound waves and that traps some of them in it's material. Plastic is reflective, just like your wall surfaces... so not a good material. Most fiberglass wool is good but also not good to breathe and itchy to touch. So you can't just have it exposed. You could contain it with cloth... like say a bed sheet or whatever... these can often be had from a locat thrift store for very little cost.

[ProfRhino]

As far as materials go, one of the market leaders uses "Knauf Ecose" instead of rockwool or similar, considerably less intrusive for your health.

If it's mostly midrange you need to calm, not sub bass nodes, do a search for "dope traps", essentially hemp filled bookshelves, cheap, easy to build and non-toxic.
Also combine nicely with corner traps or the like.

In any case, get yourself a copy of RoomEqWizard (free with registation), borrow a cheap measurement mic (or omni condenser) and do some measurements first as well as during the treatment process, it helps to know the enemy.

cheers,
Rhino

[Magicbuss]

Originally Posted by Sunaj

Hello.

Moved into a new apartment and the room is incredibly ill-acoustically. Coming from my last place of residence where I've had the luxury of not having to do anything to the room really, to get a usable sound. So, whats the cheapest way to deaden the sound a bit with little to no carpentry skills? I only have a hammer and some nails literally. i hear of people using roxul/ rockwool insulation but is there anything I can buy at home depot? what about that pink panther insulation? My aim is to build some type of acoustic panels. I don't have to necessarily hang them but I suppose it would be nice. maybe something I can put behind the microphone. I am limited since I can't glue/ or really nail things to the walls here. Check out the attachment for my room

Roxul safe n sound is available at Lowes and Home Despot. Its 3" thick x 15.25" x 47".

You get 12 batts. Cut 4 in half and you have the perfect amount for eight 2'x4'x3" panels. The final cost was slightly over $200.

I used 1x3's cut to length by home depot and I screwed 2 2x2's on the back side to space the flush mounted panels 2" from the wall for extra absorbtion. I got the fabric from Joannes fabric chain. I used cheap muslin for the back and nicer muslin for the front. The fabric was the most expensive part.

I hung 6 of them from the cheapo ooks hooks that you nail into the wall to hang large pictures. I used 3 across the vertical corners ( 4th corner was the doorway) and one on the wall/ceiling corner behind the mix desk as bass traps. 2 at the first reflection points. one lengthwise behind the monitors. One lengthwise above the mix position as a cloud

I used toggles and eye/hooks to suspend them from the ceiling.

Fabric $90
Roxul - 1 PKG 12 47”x15” $40
2” inside corner braces 8 pkgs $28
Staple Gun $25
Wood $25
Staples 1/2 “ and 5/16” $6
Wood Glue $3
Picture hanging Wire $3
1 1/2" wood screws

Cut wood
16 47” lengths
16 24” lengths

6 2'x2"x2" lengths

8yd x 60” facing fabric
6yd x 60” backing fabic

Mounting hardware
Eye /hooks
Drywall anchors
Toggles

[Sunaj]

man, i'm super tempted to just get some thick blankets from the thrift store and hang them a few inches from the walls, and do something about the corners. I've read mixed stories of this being effective and ineffective. However I know if i want to make my nuemann tlm102 sound like a nuemann, that wont cut it but shit, i feel like its better than nothing

[evosilica]

Originally Posted by Sunaj

man, i'm super tempted to just get some thick blankets from the thrift store and hang them a few inches from the walls, and do something about the corners. I've read mixed stories of this being effective and ineffective.

It'll be effective but only in the mid and high frequencies - in the bass area (including low mids) it'll be completely ineffective.

Depending on how good or bad your bass response currently is, this will lead to a more or less dull sounding room. If your room has thin walls and the speaker placement is perfect, you can probably get away with it, but chances are very high that it'll sound bad.

Thick chunks of rockwool in all corners is the way to go.
PS: Get a cheap measurement mic and a copy of REW and do some measurements. This will help a lot.

[grinder]

temporary fixes are just that and if they do not fix what you need then that is wasted energy.
Go around some 2nd hand, op shops, building wrecking yards by foot and check out what is available.
3inch thick or there about rockwool slabs and re claimed timber would be findable for cheap and some people can be helpful.
Blankets what a waste of effort.

Grinder

[Sunaj]

Understood. With that said I saw some thick comforters at the thrift store, amazingly only 1 dollar a piece.

I'll work with these for now until I get some dough to do something better, but i will take into consideration the corners as well before I actually start recording anything.

Anyone got suggestions for something I can use to drape these blankets? they're pretty heavy duty and I don't want to nail them to walls. I've tried that PVC pipe thing mentioned a few posts ago a while back and it did not cut it, the thing was flimsy as hell.

[Magicbuss]

Originally Posted by Sunaj

Understood. With that said I saw some thick comforters at the thrift store, amazingly only 1 dollar a piece.

I'll work with these for now until I get some dough to do something better, but i will take into consideration the corners as well before I actually start recording anything.

Anyone got suggestions for something I can use to drape these blankets? they're pretty heavy duty and I don't want to nail them to walls. I've tried that PVC pipe thing mentioned a few posts ago a while back and it did not cut it, the thing was flimsy as hell.

The cheapest way to treat the corners fully would be superchunk traps.

Basically you buy roxul safe and sound (by far the cheapest, easily available material for this job) and cut all of it into it into 24" triangles. Stuff the triangles into the corners until they reach from floor to ceiling then cover with cheap wood/cloth frame. Check these images to get the idea.

https://www.google.com/search?q=supe...ed=0CAcQ_AUoAg

[Sunaj]

That's pretty asesome, thanks. Might be onto something here because at it stands, the room just doesn't cut it.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Magicbuss

https://www.google.com/search?q=supe...ed=0CAcQ_AUoAg

Yes, there's some great ideas there.

[ProfRhino]

Originally Posted by Magicbuss

The cheapest way to treat the corners fully would be superchunk traps.
Basically you buy roxul safe and sound (by far the cheapest, easily available material for this job)

... and also one of the most efficient, highly recommended !
Just think twice about the actual material you use, there are vast differences regarding emission of microscopic fibres known for causing severe lung disease.
Check your suppliers for something less intrusive like Knauf Ecose.
My room's fully treated with three superchunks, 8 wallpanels with air gap (all being made from Ecose, wrapped in fleece and covered with fabric) and 4 dope traps, no emission at all in 3 years +, and the acoustic improvement is stunning.
The real savings are in DIY, the upcharge for healthy material is not that big in comparison.
Just saying ...
Rhino

[RJHollins]

Highly recommend the Knauf Ecose too. Easy to cut with an electric knife [do it outdoors]. Give it a lite vacuum. Minimal smell or itching. Used in super corners, broadbands, and ceiling clouds ... no dust.

[Sunaj]

Well I put those blankets up, to my surprise, all that annoying A$$ echo/ reflection is gone. ITS A START!

now, gotta get a new mic preamp but I guess the mbox 2 will do for now

[partonkevin]

Glad you have a start! People can down blankets and makeshift stuff all they want...something is almost always better than nothing. I hung a blanket in ONE corner of a relatively square room and it made such a difference that I could actually record live drums with some success. I recorded an albums worth of demos for my band that's had 100s of copies passed around. I even recorded a song that got picked up by a publisher to use in TV and movies.

That said, proper acoustical treatment will help you even more than a better preamp. Keep thinking about making a few sound panels that you could lean against the wall and take with you when you move.

[grinder]

Great that it worked for you
I am just one of those people who dives in boots and all.
Sounds like you can get down to recording again, well done.

Grinder

[Sunaj]

I will definitely continue to take those panels into consideration. Might even try a test build this weekend or something.

Here are recent pics of the blankets on the walls.I thought about putting something an inch or two behind the blankets for more absorption

[brainwreck]

I would think that blankets will only catch some highs. Small rooms sound muddy (low frequency buildup) and have that higher frequency ring. Going after the lower stuff pretty much involves the higher frequenceis, but not the other way around.

I remember back in my thrash metal days, it wasn't uncommon to go into a jam room with old matresses lining the walls. It definitely helped to deaden the room, and it helped with mic feedback. Old matresses are free (if not potentially gross). I'm not sure if that would be a good idea these days, though...it seems like bed bugs have made a strong come back in recent times. Maybe seal those suckers in plastic sheeting and duck tape...or not...just thinking.

[Reno.thestraws]

Ikea billy

http://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/catalog/products/00263850/

Fill 3 of the 6 gaps with rockwool or owens corning and cover those 3 gaps with fabric.

Use the 3 others gaps to Tidying up your microphones, cables , books and everything

You'll get a 8 on the woman acceptance factor scale

Absorbers and diffusors.

Place 2,4,6 or even 8 billy in your room depending on how much you want to absorb.

You can also fill the 6 gaps instead of 3 for a mega bass trap

[grinder]

Here are some purchased traps/panels and some home made panels (the red ones)
The home made ones do take some making if you are not set up for them that aside the experience is well worth the ride.

Grinder

[G-Sun]

Some good ideas for you here.
Blankets: No
Madras: Can work pretty well, and is movable

Hight density mineralwool: Best and cheapest

[duffman]

Went to an auction for an business that was closing and picked up a bunch of "cubicals".

The panels have metal frames with cloth covered foam padding in the middle, 1" thick.
Got these cheap, like $20 a cubical set of 4 panels, 2 - 5 footers, and 2 -3 footers.
Not only did I set them up around the walls of the studio I also partial enclosed around the drum set with them.

Keep an eye out. Sometimes they just throw these away.

Duff

[JimNtexas]

This guy has a good video on his DIY panel project:
http://youtu.be/U8C4mcleE5U

He also has the cleanest garage workshop in the world!

[grinder]

I have the most disorderly garage in the world and I will not supply a photograph!

Grinder

[Sunaj]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Some good ideas for you here.
Blankets: No
Madras: Can work pretty well, and is movable

Hight density mineralwool: Best and cheapest

Depends on your application and use of mixing tools. In my opinion there really isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' way of approaching music. If the end result sounds good it sounds good.

I know people who record with little to no sound conditioning at all. Whether bed egg crate foam or blankets, and their records sound amazing. As long as the other variables fall into place ' good equipment, mic technique, engineering, etc.' the end result is almost undistinguished from its 'commercial' counterpart. The song below is an example of one of those people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl3Xan3lJ20

But as far as your concern with blankets, could be a 'yea' or 'no'. Depends on what you're trying to achieve and what sound you're 'going for'

[grinder]

As I mentioned way earlier Sunaj
When you are using in the box sounds it does not matter whether you have room treatment or not. you are using pre made sounds. Even vocals when they are at speech level (RAP TYPE) can be quite good if you have your walls covered in books shelves and such. Speaking at quiet levels will not produce much echo.
For your music the vocals if louder would benefit with a ceiling panel two side panels and a front panel as a booth around and over you , very little to spend there making your own. You could set them around you and your monitors when the time came to master as well.
Yes I said that all a while ago.

Grinder