Old 04-26-2020, 12:58 PM   #161
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Reaper.fm > bottom of page download > old versions > top right of page 5.x versions
Ok firstly when I try to load the project with the old version (I tried version 5.99). I get this error msg:

https://stash.reaper.fm/38974/Reaper...%20Warning.png

As for the performance, its more or less the same. If I am being generous I would say maybe its slightly quicker to respond, at this stage I just don't know, but still every time I reposition the playhead the audio drops out and tears up, muting/unmuting tracks its still slow and painful, and forget about smooth seeking during playback.
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:14 PM   #162
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Reaper often becomes unresponsive or hangs then crashes for me - this has been a problem for a few years and getting worse rather than better.
A project I have at the moment is borderline unusable because of this. There are only 6 (relatively sparse) midi files and 6 audio files, each about 30 minutes long.
However there is a lot of tempo map information and I have been wondering if Reaper might be very inefficient with that info. Unfortunately it seems impossible to set midi to a time base rather than a beat base by rendering the midi to a new file that uses the tempo map to reposition the midi information in a final form, So I cant test whether it is the tempo map causing the problem
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:24 PM   #163
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Reaper often becomes unresponsive or hangs then crashes for me - this has been a problem for a few years and getting worse rather than better.
A project I have at the moment is borderline unusable because of this. There are only 6 (relatively sparse) midi files and 6 audio files, each about 30 minutes long.
However there is a lot of tempo map information and I have been wondering if Reaper might be very inefficient with that info. Unfortunately it seems impossible to set midi to a time base rather than a beat base by rendering the midi to a new file that uses the tempo map to reposition the midi information in a final form, So I cant test whether it is the tempo map causing the problem
For what its worth, I also have tempo changes in this project...
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:42 PM   #164
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For what its worth, I also have tempo changes in this project...
maybe that is it then - some interaction between tempo changes and certain plugins - Falcon is the main plugin I am having trouble with (and always have). It is not just Falcon as exactly the same files / setup in FLStudio is far quicker to load and far more responsive
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Old 04-27-2020, 06:13 PM   #165
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maybe that is it then - some interaction between tempo changes and certain plugins - Falcon is the main plugin I am having trouble with (and always have). It is not just Falcon as exactly the same files / setup in FLStudio is far quicker to load and far more responsive
Yep at this point I would never recommend Reaper to anyone, and I used to in the past.

The funny thing is there is tons of threads of people complaining about large projects being unusably slow and there is no response from devs as to why they don't (or cant?) fix it. It just not good enough.

And in all these threads there is always some people who jump on just to tell the person with the problem that it is their fault their projects are large. I have seen this in response to someone who complained about not being able to have 1000s of tracks in a project like he could in other DAWs because his work flow demanded that number (film scoring, orchestral work etc...) and in response to people who couldn't even get their project to be responsive when they only had a couple of hundred tracks, to someone who merely had 100 or so. The response was always the same: "that's too many tracks". I bet if I came on here saying my project consisted of 50 tracks still someone would show up and say they don't use that many tracks therefore I am using too many tracks.

Funny thing is noone can say what is the upper limit of track count that we can safely use with Reaper.
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Old 04-27-2020, 06:50 PM   #166
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Funny thing is noone can say what is the upper limit of track count that we can safely use with Reaper.
When theoretical track count is unlimited, performance doesn't work that way. It is not a fixed number and is a moving target. I could give you 100 project combinations and all of them fail at a different track counts as tracks are so elastic -meaning they can have who knows what in all types of combinations. There is always a ceiling to be had and someone will always find some combination of the myriad of items and features that hits it and others that do not. There's no fault towards the user there, it just is what it is.

I do believe, that good project management efficiency and organization, always allows projects to be larger and less issue prone than they otherwise would be (performance is always an N-1/pennies turn into dollars scenario). Not that you aren't, but it does affect the performance ceiling eventually if someone doesn't.

But... We still don't know the root cause of your issue.
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:09 PM   #167
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When theoretical track count is unlimited, performance doesn't work that way. It is not a fixed number and is a moving target. I could give you 100 project combinations and all of them fail at a different track counts as tracks are so elastic -meaning they can have who knows what in all types of combinations. There is always a ceiling to be had and someone will always find some combination of the myriad of items and features that hits it and others that do not. There's no fault towards the user there, it just is what it is.

I do believe, that good project management efficiency and organization, always allows projects to be larger and less issue prone than they otherwise would be (performance is always an N-1/pennies turn into dollars scenario). Not that you aren't, but it does affect the performance ceiling eventually if someone doesn't.

But... We still don't know the root cause of your issue.
Ok sure, I get that, but what I am trying to say is that when everytime there is some sort of complaint about Reaper's inability to handle larger track counts (not just by me but by other users as well, some of whom are professionals with far more expertise and experience than me), the go to response by some people seems to be that the track count of the user is too high, then it would suggest that the people making that accusation would have some kind of upper limit in mind as to what a reasonable track count for a project would be.

So if they are telling people that your 100 or so tracks are too many tracks then it does beg the questions, 1. on what basis are you drawing that conclusion and 2. if it is the case that you are correct then you must have surely also worked out what is a reasonable track count that Reaper can handle without glictching like this, even if that number is more of a ballpark.
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:11 PM   #168
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Ofcourse what i am saying above is just rhetorical, I know that these people don't know what track count is within reason and what is too high, I am merely pointing out that it seems like ill informed kneejerk reaction by Reaper fanatics designed to shift blame for the issues onto the user and its unhelpful...
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:01 PM   #169
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Thats it for me - 1 instance of Falcon - sometimes works sometimes not - but the general will it wont it unreliability of Reaper has done it for me as far as anything midi goes. I have projects to finish off and then will only use it for audio - just not anything with midi. Shame there is nothing else around that is as good for audio and does midi as I often combine both. Maybe Cubase? Live? Bitwig is not audio friendly at all, the new Cakewalk?. I quite liked the working method of Samplitude but it was as unstable as Reaper. Hmm ...

[winding back to v4.x has improved things a bit]

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Old 04-27-2020, 10:20 PM   #170
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reaper fanatics

what about pdc?

the more plugs you have that creates pdc, the more lags you will see while playing and jumping around and while not playing and jumping around

i made a quick test with some tracks (1024 and more) with one sforzando loaded with a violone-sfz and a REAVERB set to produce 16384 samples pdc, on each track a midi item with some midi motes so the sforzando and the VERB had to do something)

the more tracks i have the more lag i have in the gui and overall reaction, while REAPER seams to show good will to deal with audio first.

windows i7 64bit
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:00 AM   #171
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The Bunker, have you tried comparing across older versions?

I've just had what I would think of as a typical Reaper experience. The program was unusable on a project - could not even get a sound out of Falcon. So I thought I'd try some older version -portable installs (which is what I always use)> tried a v4 - worked, tried a v5, worked. went back to v6 - worked.
Now I saved a new version of my project - that worked in v6, went back to the unworkable version - that also worked now in v6.

It is this sort of experience that has me looking to find an alternative - Reaper has still been fine for me using audio files only - and has a lot of good aspects to audio editing, but to be so unreliable as it definitely is for me makes it unusable in any serious project where I am being paid - or even if it just for fun coz there is no fun in something that works then stops working an hour later when the program and project have not even been shut down and restarted.
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Old 04-28-2020, 01:08 PM   #172
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So if they are telling people that your 100 or so tracks are too many tracks then it does beg the questions,
No one is saying that here (or shouldn't be), my entire reply was saying the max is different for every person/project/config/machine so it's impossible to advise of a max count.

There is such a thing as "that's too many tracks for your current project/setup" but is based on whatever combination of near infinite combinations. There is no standard number of tracks because there is no standard track, there is only the ceiling an individual hits based on a myriad of variables.

I'm sure I could plop in 500 tracks without problems right now with some lightweight VST, but not if I throw CPU chewing Nebula on every one of them; then I might only get 30 before maxing out. I've run at least 120 tracks with 250 VSTs without issue on my setup - I'm sure there are others using more tracks than that but an overall max number expectation for all, is the wrong way to think about it.

But since we don't know true root cause, even the project being large has not been proven to be the problem, only that it has to be big to hit it. Yes, performance can be a chicken/egg bitch like that.
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:04 PM   #173
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what about pdc?

the more plugs you have that creates pdc, the more lags you will see while playing and jumping around and while not playing and jumping around
How does PDC explain Reaper hanging for a good 3-5 or even 10 minutes? PDC is calculated in milliseconds and seconds if extreme, not minutes!
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:36 PM   #174
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Continuing my recent experience, I reproduced the latest project to give me issues in demo copies of Studio One and Bitwig and they had zero problems - and were much faster at loading the large Falcon libraries and much smoother with the graphics handling - even when I created and tested some smaller projects created specifically to test Reaper, S1 and Bitwig.
I am now just waiting for good deals on both of those - I'll still be keeping Reaper as a multitrack audio editor tho
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:39 PM   #175
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The Bunker, have you tried comparing across older versions?
I tried 5.99 and it was more or less the same. Even installing a portable install and trying this itself is sooo time consuming, which version am I supposed to try? Everytime I install a new portable install, I have to first scan my VST folder which takes ages and only then I can actually open the project. I can do this once, twice, three times maybe, but surely I can't be expected to go back and try random previous versions indefinitely until I find the magic version.
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:44 PM   #176
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No one is saying that here (or shouldn't be),
Not in this thread, but I have seen others...


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my entire reply was saying the max is different for every person/project/config/machine so it's impossible to advise of a max count.
Yes I get that you haven't been saying that and for the sake of clarity I am not suggesting you are one of those people, I appreciate that you have been trying to be very helpful and I thank you.

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There is such a thing as "that's too many tracks for your current project/setup" but is based on whatever combination of near infinite combinations.
Yea but that is what I am trying to say and maybe I am not explaining myself clearly, what I am saying is in all of those scenarios with infinite variables, Reaper ALWAYS seems to be the weakest link in the chain. When somebody says that using the exact same machine and same plugins and same work flows they they get better fperformance out of other DAWs than they do with Reaper then those infinite variables all of a sudden don't seem very relevant. Others have in other threads clearly states that they can't do things on Reaper that they easily can do on other DAWs.
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:47 PM   #177
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Continuing my recent experience, I reproduced the latest project to give me issues in demo copies of Studio One and Bitwig and they had zero problems - and were much faster at loading the large Falcon libraries and much smoother with the graphics handling - even when I created and tested some smaller projects created specifically to test Reaper, S1 and Bitwig.
I am now just waiting for good deals on both of those - I'll still be keeping Reaper as a multitrack audio editor tho
S1 and bitwig eh?

Hmmm maybe worth looking into for me as well.

Which would you say is better?

For me there are some feature I really need in order to consider it.

One of those is the ability to have multiple Mixer windows.

The other is the ability to have different track visibility for the arrangement windows and the mixer window.
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:59 PM   #178
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S1 and bitwig eh?

Hmmm maybe worth looking into for me as well.

Which would you say is better?

For me there are some feature I really need in order to consider it.

One of those is the ability to have multiple Mixer windows.

The other is the ability to have different track visibility for the arrangement windows and the mixer window.
honestly have not looked at those aspects you mention and it may be either or both have other ways of working that get you what you want. Only demoing can tell. Studio One could definitely replace Reaper - does both midi and audio and very well as far as I can tell so far. Of course there are bound to be differences. I am probably going to buy it but will keep demo-ing
Studio One has a fully functional 30 day demo

Bitwig has a demo but you cant save - I am definitely going to get it. It is nothing like Reaper, it is a production environment for midi and audio, with the ability to edit both but with some strange omissions eg stretch on the timeline. But for production it is like and much easier version of Live with Max4live - and probably no less powerful. It is going to make a lot of what I do so much easier

Not surprisingly both have more coherent interfaces and better graphics performance. Although Bitwig does not work with video natively, there is a cheap add-on.

Anyway early days for me but the chance of me getting both of those is very high
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:58 PM   #179
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How does PDC explain Reaper hanging for a good 3-5 or even 10 minutes? PDC is calculated in milliseconds and seconds if extreme, not minutes!
Pdc is no explanation for it.

I noticed an effect on gui reaction with very high trackcount with pdc on each track.

Maybe somekind of a bug. But likely more a thing of "pushing it to the limit" (concerning my test setup)
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:15 AM   #180
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honestly have not looked at those aspects you mention and it may be either or both have other ways of working that get you what you want. Only demoing can tell. Studio One could definitely replace Reaper - does both midi and audio and very well as far as I can tell so far. Of course there are bound to be differences. I am probably going to buy it but will keep demo-ing
Studio One has a fully functional 30 day demo

Bitwig has a demo but you cant save - I am definitely going to get it. It is nothing like Reaper, it is a production environment for midi and audio, with the ability to edit both but with some strange omissions eg stretch on the timeline. But for production it is like and much easier version of Live with Max4live - and probably no less powerful. It is going to make a lot of what I do so much easier

Not surprisingly both have more coherent interfaces and better graphics performance. Although Bitwig does not work with video natively, there is a cheap add-on.

Anyway early days for me but the chance of me getting both of those is very high
Hey Eddy, do you know if there is an easier method of transfering a project from Reaper to another DAW other than saving every instance of every plugin as a preset and then loading it track by track, instance by instance in the new DAW?

I know in Reaper you could at least do templates or save FX chains, but those things obviously don't work across DAWs, is there something out there that lets you do something similar but across DAWs?
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Old 05-11-2020, 09:28 PM   #181
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Hey Eddy, do you know if there is an easier method of transfering a project from Reaper to another DAW other than saving every instance of every plugin as a preset and then loading it track by track, instance by instance in the new DAW?

I know in Reaper you could at least do templates or save FX chains, but those things obviously don't work across DAWs, is there something out there that lets you do something similar but across DAWs?
sadly no - It would be very difficult to do as Reaper has that universal track design, which I like a lot, but a lot of DAWs dont. I am going to try and finish what I can in Reaper and start new ones in Studio One and Bitwig. But some projects that were half started in Reaper look like they will be easier just to start again in Bitwig because of the modulation improvements

Anyway I bought both Bitwig and Studio One - they can be resold so it is not a huge drama if I need to get rid of them later

There are strange things missing in Studio One tho - no track templates for example, they have another system, import from song, which would be good but is still underdeveloped. So it is not a straightforward "this is better than that" and I have to keep reminding myself that I am new to Studio One and that Reaper just couldn't handle how I use Falcon and Kontakt, which is a major problem for me.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:16 AM   #182
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There are strange things missing in Studio One tho - no track templates for example, they have another system, import from song, which would be good but is still underdeveloped. So it is not a straightforward "this is better than that" and I have to keep reminding myself that I am new to Studio One and that Reaper just couldn't handle how I use Falcon and Kontakt, which is a major problem for me.
Ah that sounds like the way Pro Tools does track templates.
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Old 05-14-2020, 03:43 PM   #183
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And just when I thought I had seen it all I just noticed a new symptom of this neverending source of torment that is this Reaper project...

So apparently looping a section of a song and browsing samples at the same time through the Media Explorer window is also impossible as everytime I go to the next sample the whole playback from the project as well as the audio coming from the Media Explorer's audition output glitches. Not sure if this gives any clues as to why things are the way they are but here is another piece of the puzzle regardless...
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Old 05-18-2020, 12:21 AM   #184
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NEW UPDATE:

Ok so I bit the bullet and setup my other computer which is a laptop with the same plugins as my main PC and transferred the project to the laptop to see how it would perform, and it is WAAAAY smoother, even though it still crackles on pausing playback and then slows down a little immediately after playback and repositioning it is I would say a good 80% or so smoother. And the interesting thing is I my laptop is less powerful than my main computer. So the issue is definitely related to my computer, but what could it be? How can I work out what is causing this behaviour?
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:58 PM   #185
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Hi,

Don't have an answer, but its great you've eliminated reaper as the culprit. Not because of fan boy angle , but I was starting to wonder if ,when i get a capable computer I might have issues with larger projects.

I'm buying a used dell i7 tommorow.:-)

Good luck finding the issue on your main PC.

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Old 05-18-2020, 08:09 PM   #186
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Hi,

Don't have an answer, but its great you've eliminated reaper as the culprit. Not because of fan boy angle , but I was starting to wonder if ,when i get a capable computer I might have issues with larger projects.

I'm buying a used dell i7 tommorow.:-)

Good luck finding the issue on your main PC.
Actually since yesterday I imported the settings from the other computer and it went to behaving sluggish again, I reverted to my laptop's old Reaper settings and it stayed sluggish so now both are pretty much on par with each other.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:11 PM   #187
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Hi,

Don't have an answer, but its great you've eliminated reaper as the culprit. Not because of fan boy angle , but I was starting to wonder if ,when i get a capable computer I might have issues with larger projects.

I'm buying a used dell i7 tommorow.:-)

Good luck finding the issue on your main PC.
Also if I were you and putting together a new computer for Audio work I would seriously re-consider using Reaper as it is too unreliable on some systems and noone can work out why or what to do about it. The only reason I am trying to stick to it as much as possible is because I already have a project in it that I want to finish, otherwise I would not start any new projects in Reaper.
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