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Old 05-31-2013, 11:36 AM   #81
Nick Morris
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I NEED to find some time to dig into this! Excited to get this working
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:15 PM   #82
Geoff Waddington
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New build is up.

Stability should be much improved.

Pushing knob top switch now opens Plugin.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:28 PM   #83
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Installed the latest build on both my Macbook and my Windows machine tonight. Still having the same stability issues with the Mac version; crashes every time I try to create a track or open a project.

On the windows side of things I no longer get momentary freezes in Reaper when I create new tracks, but it does still take a fair bit of time for the new tracks to appear on the controller.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:19 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Installed the latest build on both my Macbook and my Windows machine tonight. Still having the same stability issues with the Mac version; crashes every time I try to create a track or open a project.
I can only test 32 bit, are you on 64 bit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
On the windows side of things I no longer get momentary freezes in Reaper when I create new tracks, but it does still take a fair bit of time for the new tracks to appear on the controller
Cool, that's exactly one of the places improvement was expected.

As far as the time, I'm wondering if that's something I could optimize from my end, will look into it.

The mapping tool is receiving attention right now, should have a first cut in a few days.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:55 AM   #85
Geoff Waddington
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Here is an alpha of the mapping tool.

Probably needs .NET 4.0 or above, not sure.

You do not need EuCon, this is a standalone tool that works with text files.

So, please everyone feel free to have a look and provide feedback.

Unzip the file.
Navigate to the EuCon Mapping Tool folder.
Run (double click) "EuCon Insert Map Tool.exe".
File->Open
Navigate to EuCon Mapping Tool\Insert_Params.
You should see 3 files.
Open VST_ ValhallaRoom _Valhalla DSP_ LLC_.vxm

On the far left are the parameters
You can also find these in Yellow text in a KnobCell.

The next columns are for custom display name overrides for 4 character, 8, character, and long strings.

The dropdowns control the visual style of the thermometer bar on the EuCon surface.

The top text box is the parameter controlled by the rotary knob.
The dropdown is the thermometer style.

The middle text box is the parameter controlled by either the rotary (peer knob) or the Yellow switch.
The dropdown allows thermometer style selection OR the Yellow switch

The bottom text box is the parameter controlled by the Green switch

Left click and hold the Green Switch and drag and drop to another Knob Cell.

Right Click to Add / Delete.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:28 AM   #86
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Grabbing.

Start giving it a version number in the archive name to keep 'em apart.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:19 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I can only test 32 bit, are you on 64 bit?
My Macbook is 32 bit, running OSX 10.6.5
Quote:
Cool, that's exactly one of the places improvement was expected.

As far as the time, I'm wondering if that's something I could optimize from my end, will look into it.
Played around with this a little more today. Reaper doesn't freezes if I add only 1 track at a time, but it takes about 3 or 4 seconds for that track to appear on the controller. Reaper does freeze if I try to add multiple tracks at a time (either by using the insert multiple tracks dialogue, or just by using the insert single track command a bunch of times in a row in rapid succesion). The more tracks I insert at once, the longer it freezes for. The most I tried was 20 new tracks at once and it froze for a solidd 60+ seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Here is an alpha of the mapping tool.
How functional is this right now? Is it possible for me to modify a map, save it and see my changes on the controller from within Reaper? If so I can't figure out how.

I'm liking the overall layout of the mapping tool so far. I'm hoping that eventually we'll be able to input a folder for it to scan for vsts, and have it generate new parameter lists for anything it finds.
Quote:
On the far left are the parameters... The next columns are for custom display name overrides for 4 character, 8, character, and long strings.
I think there needs to be some sort of visual differentiation between the non-editable Parameter column, and the editible display alias columns. As it is now, it might not be immediately obvious that some of the columns are meant to be edited.
Quote:
The dropdowns control the visual style of the thermometer bar on the EuCon surface.
I found the icons for this kind of confusing. I think I eventually figured out what they all meant, but a took about 5 minutes of staring back and forth between the screen and LED screen on my MC Mix to to understand what each one was supposed to be. I'm still not sure what the functional difference is between the 5th and 6th icons (the ones that are identical aside from color). What would be really cool and helpful would be if you made it so that we could drag the thermometer handles back and forth and see what the motion would actually look like.
Quote:
The top text box is the parameter controlled by the rotary knob.
I think it would be great if this could be a dropdown menu with all the available parameters instead of a text box. Having to manually enter the parameter names would leave a lot of room for user error
Quote:
Left click and hold the Green Switch and drag and drop to another Knob Cell.
Is there a particular reason why the "hit zone" when dragging onto a cell does not include the text boxes? This seems weird to me. If you are going to limit the area we can drag onto I think it should only let you drag from one green box to another. As it is I now I can drag onto both the green box, or either of the two drop down menus.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:29 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
My Macbook is 32 bit, running OSX 10.6.5
Cool, more work to do on my end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Played around with this a little more today. Reaper doesn't freezes if I add only 1 track at a time, but it takes about 3 or 4 seconds for that track to appear on the controller. Reaper does freeze if I try to add multiple tracks at a time (either by using the insert multiple tracks dialogue, or just by using the insert single track command a bunch of times in a row in rapid succesion). The more tracks I insert at once, the longer it freezes for. The most I tried was 20 new tracks at once and it froze for a solidd 60+ seconds.
Thanks, I'll continue to work this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
How functional is this right now? Is it possible for me to modify a map, save it and see my changes on the controller from within Reaper? If so I can't figure out how
If you replace the contents of your installation folders (...Roaming/REAPER/EuCon/) Insert_Params, Insert_Aliases, Insert_Maps with the content in the .zip file, AND you use the Tool to open the installation files (...Roaming/REAPER/EuCon/Insert_Params/), you should be good to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I'm liking the overall layout of the mapping tool so far. I'm hoping that eventually we'll be able to input a folder for it to scan for vsts, and have it generate new parameter lists for anything it finds.
It's just a simple convenience tool, so it's a tad more manual than that
Just load up a VST, navigate to that VST on the Mix and press the Lower Switch once or twice (the default mapping sets the Lower switch to "Bypass")

You will now find a .vxm file in the Insert_Params directory -- open that with the tool and have at 'er.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I think there needs to be some sort of visual differentiation between the non-editable Parameter column, and the editible display alias columns. As it is now, it might not be immediately obvious that some of the columns are meant to be edited.
Nice one, the parameter column is now visually very similar to a Knob Cell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I found the icons for this kind of confusing. I think I eventually figured out what they all meant, but a took about 5 minutes of staring back and forth between the screen and LED screen on my MC Mix to to understand what each one was supposed to be. I'm still not sure what the functional difference is between the 5th and 6th icons (the ones that are identical aside from color). What would be really cool and helpful would be if you made it so that we could drag the thermometer handles back and forth and see what the motion would actually look like.
That would be cool, and way too difficult for a simple tool.

Still your point has merit, would you settle for customizable Tooltips ?

The Tooltip text is in the XML files, be careful to edit JUST the Tooltip text, or things will start to go wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I think it would be great if this could be a dropdown menu with all the available parameters instead of a text box. Having to manually enter the parameter names would leave a lot of room for user error
That would work well for an LA2A, a NEVE 88RS strip, not so much...

I know, I should have a manual ready -- I promise to get to it right away

In the meantime...

The idea is that you cut and paste the text from the Parameters column into the Knob Cells.

You have to be able to type custom text (for Drilldown titles) into the top dropdown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Is there a particular reason why the "hit zone" when dragging onto a cell does not include the text boxes? This seems weird to me. If you are going to limit the area we can drag onto I think it should only let you drag from one green box to another. As it is I now I can drag onto both the green box, or either of the two drop down menus.
Yeah, that's just the stock behavior of WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation) drag and drop, once again, point noted, but for a simple tool that gets used rarely, then put away for quite a while, I'm willing to play a lot looser, frees up resources (time/energy) to devote to the main task.

The .zip attachment in the post above has been updated, anyone know how to put a .zip file in the sig area?
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:07 AM   #89
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So, I finally got around to grabbing the Eucon files, dusting off my MCMix and setting it up on the Mac. I don't have a lot of experience with this unit. So, I might not be aware of some of the more advanced functions.

Loaded 64-bit version of Reaper and fired up a small session I had mixed. I was quite happy to see all the lights flashing around, w00t w00t!

Most push-button functions work quite well including faders, pans etc. Great job Geoff!

Yes, there is a huge delay while adding a track to Reaper! Hope this can be fixed, top priority

I tried writing in some automation, which worked as desired.


A while later I realised that the faders weren't moving! I can't remember if they were motorised when I launched it! Going to reboot and give it a shot. The shift fader reset works in resetting the level, but the faders are dead. EDIT: So a restart fixed this! Not sure, why it lost communication. Probably when I was trying the Shift+Push Buttons.

I will hook up the MCTransport next.

As for those testing this on a Mac, are there a lot of crashes? Was planning to start a new track with the Eucon hooked up, to put it through it's paces! Would I regret this?


Great work so far Geoff! I'm really excited that I can at least use this at the basic level for my mixing work with basic functions.

Last edited by Splaaat; 06-08-2013 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:38 AM   #90
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On OS X 10.8.3 after quitting my previous session and restarting Reaper without the MCMix, gives me a constant crash with the error:

Process: REAPER [500]
Path: /Applications/REAPER64.app/Contents/MacOS/REAPER
Identifier: com.cockos.reaper
Version: 4.402
Code Type: X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process: launchd [216]
User ID: 501

Date/Time: 2013-06-08 20:05:52.759 +0530
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.8.3 (12D78)
Report Version: 10

Interval Since Last Report: 411622 sec
Crashes Since Last Report: 9
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 7
Anonymous UUID: 66C2DDD7-061F-D0A9-63DA-B9052474EABB

Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000038

VM Regions Near 0x38:
-->
__TEXT 0000000100000000-0000000100788000 [ 7712K] r-x/rwx SM=COW /Applications/REAPER64.app/Contents/MacOS/REAPER

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0 reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib 0x000000010ee40bd2 EuControlSwitch::GetPrimitive(unsigned int, EuPrimitiveControl**) const + 100
1 reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib 0x000000010ee22f78 EuConProcessorTransport::AppSetPlay(bool) + 26
2 reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib 0x000000010ee288c6 ReaperProcessorTransport::SetSurfacePlayState(bool , bool, bool) + 108
3 com.cockos.reaper 0x0000000100217fb9 CSurf_SetPlayState(bool, bool, bool, IReaperControlSurface*) + 137
4 com.cockos.reaper 0x000000010006fe2d OnProjectChange(int, int) + 1357
5 com.cockos.reaper 0x00000001004b08e0 MainProc(HWND__*, unsigned int, unsigned long, long) + 8288
6 com.cockos.reaper 0x00000001003a95ad -[REAPERSwell_hwnd initChild:Parent:dlgProc:Param:] + 1421
7 com.cockos.reaper 0x00000001003aae6f -[REAPERSwell_modelesswindow initModeless:Parent:dlgProc:ParamutputHwnd:force Styles:] + 687
8 com.cockos.reaper 0x00000001003ad270 SWELL_CreateDialog(SWELL_DialogResourceIndex*, char const*, HWND__*, long (*)(HWND__*, unsigned int, unsigned long, long), long) + 656
9 com.cockos.reaper 0x000000010010f383 __localizeDialog(void*, char const*, HWND__*, long (*)(HWND__*, unsigned int, unsigned long, long), long, int) + 275
10 com.cockos.reaper 0x0000000100037cf7 -[Controller applicationDidFinishLaunching:] + 103
11 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x00007fff815ceeda _CFXNotificationPost + 2554
12 com.apple.Foundation 0x00007fff8b1a4e26 -[NSNotificationCenter postNotificationNamebject:userInfo:] + 64
13 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff873ac55d -[NSApplication _postDidFinishNotification] + 292
14 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff873ac296 -[NSApplication _sendFinishLaunchingNotification] + 216
15 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff873a9482 -[NSApplication(NSAppleEventHandling) _handleAEOpenEvent:] + 566
16 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff873a907c -[NSApplication(NSAppleEventHandling) _handleCoreEvent:withReplyEvent:] + 351
17 com.apple.Foundation 0x00007fff8b1be70b -[NSAppleEventManager dispatchRawAppleEvent:withRawReply:handlerRefCon:] + 308
18 com.apple.Foundation 0x00007fff8b1be56d _NSAppleEventManagerGenericHandler + 106
19 com.apple.AE 0x00007fff82fd7078 aeDispatchAppleEvent(AEDesc const*, AEDesc*, unsigned int, unsigned char*) + 307
20 com.apple.AE 0x00007fff82fd6ed9 dispatchEventAndSendReply(AEDesc const*, AEDesc*) + 37
21 com.apple.AE 0x00007fff82fd6d99 aeProcessAppleEvent + 318
22 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x00007fff81f47709 AEProcessAppleEvent + 100
23 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff873a5866 _DPSNextEvent + 1456
24 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff873a4e22 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 128
25 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff8739c1d3 -[NSApplication run] + 517
26 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff87340c06 NSApplicationMain + 869
27 com.cockos.reaper 0x000000010000f23c main + 28
28 com.cockos.reaper 0x000000010000f204 start + 52



EDIT: Ok, a system restart did fix this issue.

Last edited by Splaaat; 06-08-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:48 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Nice one, the parameter column is now visually very similar to a Knob Cell.
This is looking much better now, thanks
Quote:
would you settle for customizable Tooltips ?

The Tooltip text is in the XML files, be careful to edit JUST the Tooltip text, or things will start to go wrong
The tooltips are great, it feels a lot less confusing now.
Quote:
You have to be able to type custom text (for Drilldown titles) into the top dropdown.
I realized this right after I posted last night. Maybe a warning dialogue could pop up to let you know when you've typed something into a knob cell that doesn't exist in the parameters list?
Quote:
If you replace the contents of your installation folders (...Roaming/REAPER/EuCon/) Insert_Params, Insert_Aliases, Insert_Maps with the content in the .zip file, AND you use the Tool to open the installation files (...Roaming/REAPER/EuCon/Insert_Params/), you should be good to go...
Just load up a VST, navigate to that VST on the Mix and press the Lower Switch once or twice (the default mapping sets the Lower switch to "Bypass")

You will now find a .vxm file in the Insert_Params directory -- open that with the tool and have at 'er.
I tried this today and now I get a crash if I try to run a session that uses any of the plugins I mapped. I can open the session without it crashing, but none of my tracks load up on the controller, and as soon as I hit play Reaper crashes. The only way to avoid the crash is to move the .uxm files out of the Insert_Maps folder.

The only plugin map that works for me is the Valhallaroom one that you provide with the Eucon dll file, but if I replace that one with the Vallhallaroom files you provided with the mapping tool I'll get a crash.
Quote:
The .zip attachment in the post above has been updated, anyone know how to put a .zip file in the sig area?
Why not just stick it in the stash with the rest of your stuff?
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:10 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I tried this today and now I get a crash if I try to run a session that uses any of the plugins I mapped. I can open the session without it crashing, but none of my tracks load up on the controller, and as soon as I hit play Reaper crashes. The only way to avoid the crash is to move the .uxm files out of the Insert_Maps folder.

The only plugin map that works for me is the Valhallaroom one that you provide with the Eucon dll file, but if I replace that one with the Vallhallaroom files you provided with the mapping tool I'll get a crash.
You've just uncovered a bug, fixed now, please get the mapping tool from the .zip file a few posts back, I've updated it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Why not just stick it in the stash with the rest of your stuff?
Yes, definitely will, but there is an opportunity here for folks without hardware to play with the tiny .zip file and give their input.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:43 PM   #93
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You can provide links in your sig in the same manner as in forum posts.

Here's my signature:


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Old 06-08-2013, 05:50 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
You can provide links in your sig in the same manner is in the text.
Thanks, yeah, I meant an actual attachment, the.zip file.

As RobinGShore suggested, this will eventually be part of the stash.

Have you had a chance to play with the mapper?

Please make sure to grab it again, I just updated it about 1/2 hour ago -- yeah, I know, should have version numbers
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:15 PM   #95
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Yeah, I've got it.

I could cover Aether, Klanghelm DC8C and maybe a bunch of Bootsy plugins. Who knows what else.

I'd advise to use a monospace font for the limited char fields, as well as autoextending the columns so they are never cut off.

As I have no hardware right now, I will need to generate any parameter list myself in a text editor using a copy of the Valhalla text files. The parameter list is exactly as it is listed in the envelope window, so while being somewhat a waste of time, it's necessary for now.

Of course the parameter list is the only thing I can't edit at all in the editor. I'll use a separate text editor for that.

There is currently no way to verify whatever was created without hardware either, as far as I'm aware of that is. Testing will thus take longer as we need to find someone with both hardware and the plugin.

But we're on our way.
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:31 PM   #96
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I wouldn't say the application is ready for use yet.

The drag'n'drop functionality is almost non-existant and puzzling, and it needs to enable folks to design a setup of the parameters.

Thought about having folks loads a Reaper project and picking the plugin from a list of the plugins inside it ?

All the parameters are in there, and that could pretty much replace having to have hardware to get those files going.
-edit-
I just checked, and of course there is nothing resembling a parameter list in the project, not even after activating the parameter envelopes. Weird. Perhaps the plugin can collect and generate those files with an action you put in to the code.
An easy way to generate those config files, a "Save As" functionality for different versions, a clear and easy to use drag'n'drop functionality(maybe mini windows around the cell boxes) would get this off the ground, and I could start sending config files your way.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:14 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
I wouldn't say the application is ready for use yet. The drag'n'drop functionality is almost non-existant and puzzling, and it needs to enable folks to design a setup of the parameters.
Please explain further, not quite sure what you mean here.

The drag and drop is simply for rearranging the Knob Cells, just grab the green light and drag to the desired location.

As far as parameters the usage is simple, cut and paste from the Parameter list to the Knob Cell text boxes. This is superior to drag and drop IMHO in that you don't have to keep the death grip on the mouse until you reach the target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Save As" functionality for different versions
The design does not include support for different versions.

Why would you want this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
I could cover Aether, Klanghelm DC8C and maybe a bunch of Bootsy plugins. Who knows what else. As I have no hardware right now, I will need to generate any parameter list myself in a text editor using a copy of the Valhalla text files. The parameter list is exactly as it is listed in the envelope window, so while being somewhat a waste of time, it's necessary for now. Of course the parameter list is the only thing I can't edit at all in the editor. I'll use a separate text editor for that.

There is currently no way to verify whatever was created without hardware either, as far as I'm aware of that is. Testing will thus take longer as we need to find someone with both hardware and the plugin.
Slow down, you're working way too hard

I was just looking for a test drive of the tool using the maps included in the .zip (LA2A, Valhalla, and Neve 88RS), not a full blown mapping effort on your end, but thanks for the offer to contribute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
I'd advise to use a monospace font for the limited char fields, as well as autoextending the columns so they are never cut off.
The interesting thing is the 8 char display on my units is not monospaced, but I hear ya'.

I'll look into the column sizing.

Thanks for the valuable input, as usual.

Cleaned up the visuals a bit:
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:49 AM   #98
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Possible bug.

Drag'n'dropping the green button up or down and releasing on top of another cell just seems to copy the cell name. Releasing the mouse button outside anything but the cell appears to do nothing.


As for Copy/pasting text, it's a start.
Do you want suggestions for the application at this point ?
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:14 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Drag'n'dropping the green button up or down and releasing on top of another cell just seems to copy the cell name. Releasing the mouse button outside anything but the cell appears to do nothing.
Hmmm... should copy all parameters and drop down selections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
As for Copy/pasting text, it's a start.
Do you want suggestions for the application at this point ?
Well, I'm open to suggestions, what more than simple copy and paste do you envision?

The idea is to copy a given parameter to one or more Knob Cell text boxes, indicating that parameter will be controlled by the knob at that map location (tree node in the interface)
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:28 AM   #100
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Here's a little idea then.

Since the parameters cannot and should not be changed, make them drag'n'droppable buttons and move them right beside the cells. Char columns to its left, cells on its right.

Drag'n'drop from parameter to cell.


Make the scrolling snap so the cells always start at the top. In other words just scroll one cell height at a time. That way the user never needs to do any fine adjustment to the display scrolling.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:17 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Since the parameters cannot and should not be changed, make them drag'n'droppable buttons and move them right beside the cells. Char columns to its left, cells on its right. Drag'n'drop from parameter to cell.
Thought about putting them on the right, but then they are the first thing covered up when you move the splitter bar.

I opted for the idea when that you are working with layout you just slide the splitter left to cover up the Aliases.

I can see both points, I'll try and think of how to get it all.

I still think for the parameters, cut and paste works better.
Select and copy Parameter, Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C.
Navigate to the Target.
Paste, Ctrl-V

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Make the scrolling snap so the cells always start at the top. In other words just scroll one cell height at a time. That way the user never needs to do any fine adjustment to the display scrolling.
That's how it already works here, unless I don't understand what you are saying, you mean the scrolling jumps by row height? -- it currently does this.

Thanks for the input, I'll think some more about the parameter / cell interaction.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:20 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Drag'n'drop from parameter to cell
HaHa stupid me

Drag and Drop already works, just highlite the text in Parameter and drag to target and drop.

There -- best of both worlds, built right into WPF automatically, didn't have to do a thing.

Thanks for pointing it out.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:33 PM   #103
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How can this be made clear to users. Little info bar at the top with basic procedures perhaps.

Let's face it though, only programmers(I'm a keyboard guy as well) think copy/pasting text is intuitive.
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:03 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
How can this be made clear to users. Little info bar at the top with basic procedures perhaps.
Well, I think there is still a need for a very small manual / help file / etc.

Maybe 1-2 pages of, as you say, basic purpose, procedures and navigation.

After all, it's something you use a lot to get your existing collection mapped, and then it is put away until another map is needed, a refresher manual is your friend at that time.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:45 PM   #105
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New build is up.

Bunch of minor alias and mapping bug fixes to both the map editor and the Dll/Dylib.

Don't forget to replace the EuCon folder, it's quite different now.

Also placed the disorganized beginnings of a manual -- had to upload separately, too big -- https://stash.reaper.fm/v/16774/EuCon%20Map%20Editor.pdf

If there's one thing I really suck at it's writing manuals, any and all comments / suggestions / etc. more than welcomed.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:44 AM   #106
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New build is up.

Added Horizontal Layout to the Map Editor.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:00 AM   #107
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Nice option. The horizontal view works much better as an overview for me.

The cell portion of the program window blows a lot of space to its left. The user has to increase the window size considerably as a result to have everything in view.

Drag'n'drop of the green button still produces the same results. There is also no indicator while holding down the mouse button as to where the control will actually end up.

Btw, why is the "Wet" and "Bypass" control, which are native to Reaper the upper-most menu on the examples ? Are they presented when the plugin list is shown ?

The text drag'n'drop is a start, but in the long run that's an 80-90s style method nobody is likely to look on favourably as the only option.


What would it take to auto-fill the 4char, 8char and long names when first loading a new plugin map ? Some clever shortening methods I presume, but i'll be worth it, especially for some plugins that have quite a few parameters. Manual typing at least for the initial stage is not recommended.


The tree folding button folds the upper-most cell in to nothing.

And btw, the \Users\AppData directory is invisible to everyone by default, so it's not the greatest place to access with a File dialog that hides it if you do not directly guide the user to the necessary files from the start.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:07 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
The cell portion of the program window blows a lot of space to its left. The user has to increase the window size considerably as a result to have everything in view
Agreed, adjusted this as best I could, I still think the overall expand / collapse area is generally too large.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Drag'n'drop of the green button still produces the same results. There is also no indicator while holding down the mouse button as to where the control will actually end up.
I still feel like we're on different pages here.

The idea is to begin the drag operation whilst over the Green Switch (source) and drop the entire cell contents at the new (target) location.

Does this not happen on your system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Btw, why is the "Wet" and "Bypass" control, which are native to Reaper the upper-most menu on the examples ? Are they presented when the plugin list is shown ?
It's just one possible mapping.

Let's say you have an LA2A.

The EuCon display would be "LA2A", the rotary would control the Wet function and the Lower Switch (Green) would enable / disable Bypass.

I find that very convenient for a lot of plugins, but not all, that's the idea, to be able to individually customize each plugin to suit your workflow.

So, for instance, you might place the "Reverb Time" function of a reverb at the root if you wanted immediate access to that parameter with no drill down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
The tree folding button folds the upper-most cell in to nothing.
Had a quick look, nothing easy, WPF/XAML gurus please chime in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
And btw, the \Users\AppData directory is invisible to everyone by default, so it's not the greatest place to access with a File dialog that hides it if you do not directly guide the user to the necessary files from the start
Fair enough, but that is where Reaper likes to keep config files, so that is where we must interact with them, and since this is a standalone program I don't have access to the GetReaperResourcePath (or whatever it's called) function.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:17 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I still feel like we're on different pages here.

The idea is to begin the drag operation whilst over the Green Switch (source) and drop the entire cell contents at the new (target) location.

Does this not happen on your system?
To be certain, I click on the green button, hold the mouse button, drag the cursor on top of another cell and let go. The result is that the contents of the source cell are copied on to the target cell, at least to appear to do so. Perhaps I did miss something.

I would expect even just a simplistic indicator such as a line between cells of where the cell will be moved to, if this is an operation to reorder things. Think spreadsheet row or corlumn reordering. They use similar indicators.


Quote:
It's just one possible mapping.

Let's say you have an LA2A.

The EuCon display would be "LA2A", the rotary would control the Wet function and the Lower Switch (Green) would enable / disable Bypass.

I find that very convenient for a lot of plugins, but not all, that's the idea, to be able to individually customize each plugin to suit your workflow.

So, for instance, you might place the "Reverb Time" function of a reverb at the root if you wanted immediate access to that parameter with no drill down.
That's what I thought, and it's a great idea IMHO to get most-used functionality out there in the tracks plugin list.


Quote:
Had a quick look, nothing easy, WPF/XAML gurus please chime in.

Fair enough, but that is where Reaper likes to keep config files, so that is where we must interact with them, and since this is a standalone program I don't have access to the GetReaperResourcePath (or whatever it's called) function.
I did a search and the variable is %USERPROFILE% .

Thus "cd %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming\REAPER" gets you in to the resource path of Reaper on Windows 7 and Vista, IF you are already on the system drive, which is accessible via the %HOMEDRIVE% variable. On WindowsXP that might be different. My information comes from this page : http://www.wilsonmar.com/1envvars.htm
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:08 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
To be certain, I click on the green button, hold the mouse button, drag the cursor on top of another cell and let go. The result is that the contents of the source cell are copied on to the target cell, at least to appear to do so. Perhaps I did miss something.

I would expect even just a simplistic indicator such as a line between cells of where the cell will be moved to, if this is an operation to reorder things. Think spreadsheet row or corlumn reordering. They use similar indicators
Ah, OK, we ARE on the same page, you just want more adornment during the drag operation, I'll look into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
I did a search and the variable is %USERPROFILE%
Haha, man it's been so long since I've used an environment variable that way, I didn't even think of that approach.

New build is up with that fix, thanks for the research.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:09 PM   #111
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Finally had some time to dig into this again. The mapping tool is such a great idea. I love that your giving us a (relatively) simple way to create our own plugin maps, but it sure does get tedious once you start dealing with plugins that have lots of parameters. I've made test maps for a bunch of my plugins now and I've got a ton of suggestion about ways you might be able to improve the mapping tool. I also uncovered a few bugs while noodling around with my test maps. My apologies in advance if this post ends up being a little long-winded and jumbled.

The new horizontal layout for the mapping tool is a huge improvement, much easier to work with. This should really be the default layout

I agree with Airon that the display alias columns should auto-fill to help get you started. That would be a huge timesaver

I wish there a way to navigate up and down through different rows in the parameter name/alias section using the keyboard. I can move through different boxes in the same row using the tab key, but as far as I can tell that only way to move down to the next row is by clicking with the mouse. This slows things down a lot when your dealing with really long parameter lists.

I agree with you that copy/pasting parameters into knobcells is a much nicer way of working than drag and drop, but it would speed things up even more if there were a quicker way of highlighting all the text inside the parameter name boxes. Double clicking only works if there are no spaces in the parameter name. Ctrl+A works, but it'd be great if I could just select a box with my mouse and hit copy with out having to worry about highlighting the text.

A keyboard shortcut for adding new knobcells would be awesome. Having to right click the parent cell every time I want to add a new cell is a major drag, especially if I want to add a bunch of cells at the same time.

Wish there was a way to collapse/hide all the children of a knobcell without hiding the parent cell

If I understand correctly the very first cell for each plugin will always display the name of the plugin instead of the parameter it's set to control. I think this should be indicated in the mapping tool somehow.

I think there needs to be some way of rearranging the cells once you've created them. Ideally I'd like to be able to drag a selection box around a bunch of cells, then cut/copy and paste, or drag them to a new location. The drag and drop functionality you've got now is nice but I don't like how it overwrites the contents of the destination cell.

I'd love to be able select multiple cells at once and collapse them all at the same time, It would also be good if we could set the thermometer modes for multiple cells at once.

There is a bug with the Horizontal layout. If I create new cell it will show up as the old box layout regardless of whether or not I have horizontal layout selected. To get new cells to appear as horizontal I need to de-select horizontal layout from the menu, then select again.

Any chance we can get an undo feature in the mapper? There were a couple time already where I dragged a cell onto something I didn't mean to.

Reaper auto-assigns the Bypass and Wet parameters to every plugin, but some plugins also have their own Bypass and Wet, so we get duplicate parameters with the same name. Any way you can adress this so we can choose which Bypass/Wet we actually want to control.

Can you explain how assigning a parameter to a button instead of a knob works. Does it just flip between the maximum and minimum values?

It looks like there are three seperate files for each plugin; a parameters fie, an alias file, and a map fie. Any particular reasons for seperating things like this? I think it'd be easier for people to share new maps with each other if there was just one file to deal with.

The third thermometer mode ("Used for things like: Threshold") does not seem to work. It just shows up as blank on the controller.

If I'm using a peer knob on a cell the bottom button and knob-top button for that cell won't work.

Found a weird bug relating to peer knobs and drill down menus. I'm having trouble explaining it in writing but I'll try my best. Let me know if I need to clarify more:
  • Suppose I have my 3rd knobcell (it can be any cell, but I'm just using the 3rd for the sake of example) setup to control two different parameters, a primary parameter, and a secondary parameter accessed through the peer-knob function by hitting the top button.
  • Suppose the third cell also functions as the top level of a sub-menu by pressing the knob top button
  • Suppose that the third cell within this sub-menu is also setup to control two parameters using the peer-knob feature
  • Now, if I press the knob top button on my third rotary to drill down into my submenu, then activate the peer knob on the third cell within my submenu I will be bumped out of the submenu back up to the first level in the plugin map.
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:13 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
but it sure does get tedious once you start dealing with plugins that have lots of parameters
Yeah, I've done a 180 on this.
Initially I thought this tool would get used infrequently, but near the end of this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQJXna5To78 - there is talk of the extreme thirst for total customization on a project by project basis.
From there, it's not hard to envisage a model where the modern version of a tape-op gets to perform this wonderous task over and over again for each client

So I'm into this now, thanks as usual for the thorough appraisal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
The new horizontal layout for the mapping tool is a huge improvement, much easier to work with. This should really be the default layout
Will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I agree with Airon that the display alias columns should auto-fill to help get you started. That would be a huge timesaver
I'll look into it -- a decent text reducing algorithm is key to success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I agree with you that copy/pasting parameters into knobcells is a much nicer way of working than drag and drop, but it would speed things up even more if there were a quicker way of highlighting all the text inside the parameter name boxes. Double clicking only works if there are no spaces in the parameter name. Ctrl+A works, but it'd be great if I could just select a box with my mouse and hit copy with out having to worry about highlighting the text.
I'll look into adding that, airon has also suggested enhancing this area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
A keyboard shortcut for adding new knobcells would be awesome
Good one !

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
If I understand correctly the very first cell for each plugin will always display the name of the plugin instead of the parameter it's set to control. I think this should be indicated in the mapping tool somehow.
Nice to have, I'll see what I can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I think there needs to be some way of rearranging the cells once you've created them. Ideally I'd like to be able to drag a selection box around a bunch of cells, then cut/copy and paste, or drag them to a new location. The drag and drop functionality you've got now is nice but I don't like how it overwrites the contents of the destination cell.
Another great idea !

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
It would also be good if we could set the thermometer modes for multiple cells at once
This may be doable if we get lasso select going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
There is a bug with the Horizontal layout. If I create new cell it will show up as the old box layout regardless of whether or not I have horizontal layout selected. To get new cells to appear as horizontal I need to de-select horizontal layout from the menu, then select again.
Confirmed, will fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Any chance we can get an undo feature in the mapper? There were a couple time already where I dragged a cell onto something I didn't mean to.
Now that I see this being used more frequently, this kind of feature makes more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Reaper auto-assigns the Bypass and Wet parameters to every plugin, but some plugins also have their own Bypass and Wet, so we get duplicate parameters with the same name. Any way you can adress this so we can choose which Bypass/Wet we actually want to control.
Not directly, but there is a simple workaround, Reaper's Bypass and Wet are always the last 2 parameters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Can you explain how assigning a parameter to a button instead of a knob works. Does it just flip between the maximum and minimum values?
Right now, yes, but I'm working on adding "smarts" so that the button will cycle if there are more than 2 states to the parameter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
It looks like there are three seperate files for each plugin; a parameters fie, an alias file, and a map fie. Any particular reasons for seperating things like this? I think it'd be easier for people to share new maps with each other if there was just one file to deal with.
Good point, will investigate how hard that is to accomplish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
The third thermometer mode ("Used for things like: Threshold") does not seem to work. It just shows up as blank on the controller.
Hmmm... seems to work here, might have inadvertently fixed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
If I'm using a peer knob on a cell the bottom button and knob-top button for that cell won't work.
Yeah, the whole peer knob thing is a bit of a work in progress, bug noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Found a weird bug relating to peer knobs and drill down menus. I'm having trouble explaining it in writing but I'll try my best. Let me know if I need to clarify more:
Suppose I have my 3rd knobcell (it can be any cell, but I'm just using the 3rd for the sake of example) setup to control two different parameters, a primary parameter, and a secondary parameter accessed through the peer-knob function by hitting the top button.
Suppose the third cell also functions as the top level of a sub-menu by pressing the knob top button
Suppose that the third cell within this sub-menu is also setup to control two parameters using the peer-knob feature
Now, if I press the knob top button on my third rotary to drill down into my submenu, then activate the peer knob on the third cell within my submenu I will be bumped out of the submenu back up to the first level in the plugin map.
That sounds like a fun one to investigate

Thanks again for the effort, I'm knee deep in refactoring the main app right now but will get another round on the Map Editor soon.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:30 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, I've done a 180 on this.
Initially I thought this tool would get used infrequently, but near the end of this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQJXna5To78 - there is talk of the extreme thirst for total customization on a project by project basis.
From there, it's not hard to envisage a model where the modern version of a tape-op gets to perform this wonderous task over and over again for each client

So I'm into this now, thanks as usual for the thorough appraisal.
Glad you changed your mind on this. Personally, I am a fiend for software customization (that's part of why I love Reaper so much). I'm constantly tweaking things to improve my workflow, so I see myself opening up the mapper pretty frequently.

Quote:
Right now, yes, but I'm working on adding "smarts" so that the button will cycle if there are more than 2 states to the parameter.
Great! I was hoping that would be possible. This will be much better than the knobs for things like changing reverb modes or selecting track inputs
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:56 AM   #114
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New build for PC is up, the Mac stuff is at the last revision, having some Mac issues right now, working....

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
The tree folding button folds the upper-most cell in to nothing
Fixed, also added Expand Children / Collapse Children to Knob Cell context menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
The new horizontal layout for the mapping tool is a huge improvement, much easier to work with. This should really be the default layout
Done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I agree with Airon that the display alias columns should auto-fill to help get you started. That would be a huge timesaver
1st cut, this will be ongoing, the goal is usable, not perfection, any and all ideas welcomed !

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
..but it would speed things up even more if there were a quicker way of highlighting all the text inside the parameter name boxes
Done, Left Click in a Parameter cell to copy the text to the clipboard.
Ctrl + Left Click in a KnobCell to paste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
It looks like there are three seperate files for each plugin; a parameters fie, an alias file, and a map fie. Any particular reasons for seperating things like this? I think it'd be easier for people to share new maps with each other if there was just one file to deal with
Done, consolidated to 1 file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
If I understand correctly the very first cell for each plugin will always display the name of the plugin instead of the parameter it's set to control. I think this should be indicated in the mapping tool somehow.

1st cut, What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
There is a bug with the Horizontal layout. If I create new cell it will show up as the old box layout regardless of whether or not I have horizontal layout selected. To get new cells to appear as horizontal I need to de-select horizontal layout from the menu, then select again
Fixed.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:30 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Initial Mac build is up.

Superficially tested for 32 bit, not tested at all for 64 bit (don't have a 64 bit environment here).

Please remember NOT to use this for production projects just yet !!
I am blown. I will test this once I'm back in the studio on Tuesday. I've been waiting for this for a long time. Thank you

PS: I'm using an Euphonix Artist Mix with Logic Pro 9

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Old 06-15-2013, 04:54 PM   #116
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Plug-in name in the top cell looks good. It's a minor change, but I think it really helps in visualizing how things will look on the appear on the actual controller.

The auto-fill for the parameter name columns is great. What a huge timesaver. From what I can tell all you're doing for the auto-fill is deleting spaces and then chopping off the ends to shrink the names down to 4 and 8 characters. Since this is the type thing that will almost certainly never be perfect I'm not sure there's really that much more you need to do with it. The one suggestion I might have would be to also get rid of as many vowels as you can (unless they're the first letter of a word) after removing the spaces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Done, Left Click in a Parameter cell to copy the text to the clipboard.
Ctrl + Left Click in a KnobCell to paste.
Very nice, this makes things move a lot smoother. I think there should some sort of visual feedback to confirm the copy operation. Maybe have the background color of the selected parameters text-box flash a different color?


I'm noticing that I get some pretty funky behavior on the controller if I forget to set any of the thermometer modes. I think the easiest way to prevent that would be to have the mapper automatically set a thermometer mode (either the top one or the empty one) as soon as you enter anything into a cell

Third thermometer mode still isn't working for me. I can see the values changing but the meter on my MC mix stays totally empty.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:17 PM   #117
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Perhaps this has been covered somewhere, but I can't find it.

How do I add anything but new "Children" to the right-hand side of the display ?

All I've managed so far is to add a cascading bunch of children, a stairway so to speak.
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Last edited by airon; 06-15-2013 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:50 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Perhaps this has been covered somewhere, but I can't find it.

How do I add anything but new "Children" to the right-hand side of the display ?

All I've managed so far is to add a cascading bunch of children, a stairway so to speak.
You need to right-click on the very top cell and add your "children" from there, this way they'll be in line with each other. Sounds like your trying to add them from the very bottom cell each time in which case you'd get the infinitely cascading staircase like you're describing. This wasn't an issue for me, but now that you mention it I can see how it might be really confusing for some. I think there needs to be additional options for "insert cell below" and "insert cell above" in addition to "insert child"
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:10 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
How do I add anything but new "Children" to the right-hand side of the display ?
All I've managed so far is to add a cascading bunch of children, a stairway so to speak
Cleaned this up a bit in the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
I'm noticing that I get some pretty funky behavior on the controller if I forget to set any of the thermometer modes. I think the easiest way to prevent that would be

to have the mapper automatically set a thermometer mode (either the top one or the empty one) as soon as you enter anything into a cell
Fixed, top now defaults to blank, peer defaults to thermometer left.
Cleaned up overall text box behavior(e.g. you can only type in the top box, you can paste, cut, delete, etc. in the others).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Third thermometer mode still isn't working for me. I can see the values changing but the meter on my MC mix stays totally empty.
I see this now, I mistakenly thought you meant in the Editor, working...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
The auto-fill for the parameter name columns is great. What a huge timesaver. From what I can tell all you're doing for the auto-fill is deleting spaces and then chopping off the ends to shrink the names down to 4 and 8 characters. Since this is the type thing that will almost certainly never be perfect I'm not sure there's really that much more you need to do with it. The one suggestion I might have would be to also get rid of as many vowels as you can (unless they're the first letter of a word) after removing the spaces.
Cool, I think we'll leave it right there for now then.
Tried the remove vowel thing but things like "UAD LA2A" turned into "UDL2"
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:29 AM   #120
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How about a small set of regexp rules. There are tons of libraries for those and that would make it easier to update.
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