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Old 08-22-2011, 01:36 PM   #1
V'ger
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Default How to disable VST scan at startup?

With all of Reaper's options and ini's I was sure I could find the switch but even after searching the forums all I've come across is the obvious one where one disables names\types.

Any ideas or is this something forgotten implemented?

EDIT:

Feature request now here. Please vote even if it doesn't affect you:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5247

Last edited by V'ger; 12-19-2014 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:47 PM   #2
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Reaper always does a light VST scan on start-up. The first one after a reboot is a bit more thorough, subsequent start-up scans are faster (not sure why).

I think that it is done to make sure that the plugins listing in the .ini file are all available and to store their locations.

The "Clear cache/Rescan VST" function tries to load each plug-in too - so it takes a longer time.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:59 PM   #3
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It's so unReaperish to force something without an option, so I still suspect it's possible somehow.. Maybe in an ini somewhere?
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V'ger View Post
It's so unReaperish to force something without an option, so I still suspect it's possible somehow.. Maybe in an ini somewhere?
I take it you have a slow startup making you ask this question. Please see below, unless you picked the wrong location for your plug-ins, there is not actually a plug-in scan going on under normal circumstances, just a brief search for new plug-ins to be scanned.

If you didn't install your plug-ins in REAPER's plugin folder, you may have a huge number of files in your plug-in folder, possibly due to having sample libraries etc. in there. This is a not so great since it slows down the file search considerably. Move these things out to their own location outside of your plug-in folder(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Reaper always does a light VST scan on start-up.
Actually it just scans the folder for new files (probably comparing with reaper-vstplugins.ini).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
The first one after a reboot is a bit more thorough, subsequent start-up scans are faster (not sure why).
It's not more thorough, just slower. That's because your disk cache(s) has to be filled first, basically every file search operation is slower when performed for the first time after a reboot (of course depending a lot on your disk performance).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
I think that it is done to make sure that the plugins listing in the .ini file are all available and to store their locations.
It think it doesn't do the former (you can remove plug-ins without the FX browser noticing, not sure if that changed meanwhile) and does the latter on a full scan, or when the file search brought up a new plug-in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
The "Clear cache/Rescan VST" function tries to load each plug-in too - so it takes a longer time.
Yeah thar's the real scan happening only when invoked manually this way or after an update...or when you installed your plug-ins in \REAPER\Plugins or \REAPER\Plugins\FX, those get really scanned thoroughly on every start.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
I take it you have a slow startup making you ask this question. Please see below, unless you picked the wrong location for your plug-ins, there is not actually a plug-in scan going on under normal circumstances, just a brief search for new plug-ins to be scanned.
Ok, searching, not scanning, I guess I sort of knew this but just called it scanning. But point still remains, how to stop it every time Reaper starts?

It's true startup time is long and probably due to a large VST folder (now 70GB, startup takes around 45-60 sec). This is after reboot, a normal Reaper restart takes only a few seconds.

I can live with that, much more than moving things all over the hard disks to keep the vst folder size down, as backing up and searching for things will take ages and is a serious hassle (i used to have it like that before Reaper).

So I take it there is no option to stop the search at startup? I don't need it at all as I can easily start a search manually after installing something and it seems this is just a matter of a simple switch in a script?

A feature request then?
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:55 PM   #6
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There could be a setting that often gets overlooked, and that's the DX(i) scan on startup, which can be disabled in preferences.
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:29 PM   #7
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If all else fails, simply change your VST dir in REAPERs prefs.

(A 'dummy' folder or no path at all should do it.)

You can always temporarily fix the path when you need REAPER to pick up any new-installed plugs...
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:35 PM   #8
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Brilliant idea!

Edit, actually not because

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseGuyCat
you can remove plug-ins without the FX browser noticing
is wrong.

Last edited by Ollie; 08-22-2011 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:45 PM   #9
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Hm, if I do that all plugins are unavailable (missing) to Reaper..

So this actually works for you?
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:53 PM   #10
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Please see my edited post above.
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V'ger View Post
Hm, if I do that all plugins are unavailable (missing) to Reaper..

So this actually works for you?

I dont know, i havent checked, it just seemed like a logical thing to do.

But anyhow, i think i know what the problem is. Considering that REAPER scans the dir specified in the path it probably assumes that empty folder = no plugins, hence it removes them all from the plug store file.

Hence, try this:

1) Let REAPER scan your plugs

2) Set reaper-vstplugins.ini to read-only

That way REAPER cannot clear the file anymore and your plugs should remain available.

(If that doesnt work either then im afraid im out of ideas too...)
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:14 PM   #12
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That sounded good and thought that would work too, but didn't alas.. But thx for trying
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:15 PM   #13
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Oh well.

Time for a feature request then...


EDIT: Out of curiosity i just took a look at the plug store file.

No paths in there, so its no wonder REAPER doesnt find any plugins when no VST dir path is set.

(It simply doesnt know where to look for them then.)

I therefore officially admit that it was a very stupid idea and go stand in the corner for 10 minutes...

Last edited by Gearless; 08-22-2011 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V'ger View Post
It's true startup time is long and probably due to a large VST folder (now 70GB, startup takes around 45-60 sec). This is after reboot, a normal Reaper restart takes only a few seconds.
How many files are in there - and what is tasking up all that space? Moving some things out could be straight-forward. My main VST folder is: 1.35GB, containing 2,143 files, including 309 dll files and 1,001 fxp/fxps.
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:07 AM   #15
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The bulk of it are sample based vst's like Wusik, Sampletank, Dimension etc etc.

Moving things out and getting paths to work would be a bigger job, and as i mentioned, the main point is to have everything in one place for finding things easily, backup etc. I used to have things like that and it was a pita..
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:58 PM   #16
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Ok, seems a feature request is in order then, thx for your help anyway.
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Moving some things out could be straight-forward.
V'ger,

How's is moving your 'samples' out of you VST folder a PITA?


It seems like it would be the better option... instead of having to code this into Reaper.

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Old 08-23-2011, 05:54 PM   #18
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Moving is not a pita, that's just a bigger job with possible headaches to missing this and that, the PITA is to have everything spread all over the disks. This i know from having like this in the past.

A comparative example would be windows media player insisting your media files be in a certain folder (wouldn't surprise me if it did.. ), then using time automatically scanning them all for changes at startup without a way to switch off. Would u move all your media files and accept the delay and think it unreasonable to request an option?
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:05 PM   #19
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this is the way i have it set up:

d:\vst\fx
d:\vst\vsti
d:\vst\obsolete
d:\vst\samples

all the sample libraries go in d:\vst\samples. i back up the d:\vst folder, and tell reaper to scan d:\vst\fx and d:\vst\vsti folders. any plugins i want to stop using go in the d:\vst\obsolete folder which i add back to the scan path if i need to load an ancient project for some reason.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:29 PM   #20
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Where do u keep presets, data files etc etc? In program files? Application data? How about those that are both fx and vsti like Zebra, Predator, Z3ta etc?

I like to have all in the same folder so if i ever need to find something i dont have to fuss for it, there's only one folder for everything connected to whatever vst and i know exactly where it is without thinking.

Point is this ought to be my choice and remember there is already an option in Reaper to disable DX plugins from being scanned at startup, seems natural with a similar one for VST, especially in a super configurable and user friendly thing like Reaper.
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:05 AM   #21
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d:\vst\presets

If all plugin presets are in here then you always know where to look. Even if a plugin needs presets in the same folder I duplicate to the dedicated presets folder. Particularly useful way to backup my own patches too, which are still there even after a reinstall on the C drive.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:28 AM   #22
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Btw, just did a normal windows (xp 32) search for dll's in the plugin folder, took less than 15 seconds to get the full list.
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:29 PM   #23
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My experience is that 1st startups take a while.

After that, it varies for no reason that I can see.
Sometimes it starts instantly, other times it can take 15-30 seconds (rough estimate).
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:39 AM   #24
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Default Reaper 32 slow startup scan win7

I'm having a similar problem. Reaper is taking 15 to 20 minutes to boot up.

I tried this and it booted fast without the plugins the first time but went back to slow on subsequent bootups.

>you could try going to this command:

>find reaper-vstplugins.ini

>rename it to reaper-vstplugins.ini.bak

>and re-open reaper

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Bill
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:38 PM   #25
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I trust Reaper to add the no-scan option switch sooner or later so will not bother to make triplicates and rearrange my folders as others use as a workaround.

But 15-20 min startup is long.. Seems like there might be certain plugin(s) causing a hang, so try to find by using different paths (if necessary move vst folders to new separate).
Type the different paths in Preferences > VST > VST plug-in paths
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:54 AM   #26
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biggest dawback to moving all our plugs is that those which work in standalone mode will also have to have their internal paths changed as well, which you dont always remember to do.

I lost B4II due to this - took me a while to figure out....
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:42 PM   #27
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An option to turn off VST scan would be useful but for the issue of scanning a big plugin folder it would be great if Reaper could scan shortcuts to plugin dll's like Live can - then you could just make a folder full of shortcuts and point it to that and it will scan instantly - I do this with Live and it works brilliantly

Alternatively for now, instead of moving plugins around try making a folder full of symbolic links to plugins and make reaper scan that - this way it will only ever be scanning the plugins, not the extra like samples.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:14 AM   #28
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bump

+1 for an option to disable plugin scanning at startup (and let the previously scanned plugins still be usable)

I currently have a project that crashes quite often.
I don't blame Reaper for this, it's most likely a buggy plugin I haven't figured out yet, but additionally having to wait for plugin scanning each time I restart the project makes it even more of a hassle.

If someone puts up a FR I'll support it of course.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:45 PM   #29
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Bump.

+1 For an option to disable scanning on start-up.

My Reaper .ini file got messed up somehow and it just started re-scanning all 461 plug-in DLLs. I didn't need any of them for the work I was going to do, didn't have the dongle plugged in for many of them and wasted a lot of time waiting for it to re-scan (with the only real option having been to end process, move the folders, and create problems for my other VST hosts instead).

I don't have a lot of non-DLL files, but I do have tons of plug-ins that require dongles that are often on other computers.

It would really help to have the option to only scan VST plug-ins manually. Is there a feature request for this somewhere? So far I have only found a couple other threads like this.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V'ger View Post
The bulk of it are sample based vst's like Wusik, Sampletank, Dimension etc etc.

Moving things out and getting paths to work would be a bigger job, and as i mentioned, the main point is to have everything in one place for finding things easily, backup etc. I used to have things like that and it was a pita..
A "no-scan" option would introduce new problems IMHO.
It should be no problem to re-install the VSTs in question and direct the path somewhere else, for instance to a folder called "blabla-VST_samplelib" or so for each VST. Most plug-ins don't install their libraries into the VST folder by default and the reason for this is to avoid exactly the problem you describe.

I'd move the sample libraries outside the VST folder and direct the VST to the folder(s) where I put the libraries. This is especially reasonable, if you have e.g. your system, programs and plugs on an SSD. Sample libraries can get quite huge and would crowd i.e. fill the SSD rather soon. Keep VSTs and libraries apart. Having executables (which VST-dlls are) and data files in one place generally slows down the system.

If you keep an eye on where files go while you install things it should be no PITA to change things later.


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Old 09-06-2013, 01:17 AM   #31
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... I've taken to backing up my Reaper .ini files periodically (especially before an install), for just such an occasion.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:30 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
A "no-scan" option would introduce new problems IMHO.
What problems do you foresee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
It should be no problem to re-install the VSTs in question and direct the path somewhere else, for instance to a folder called "blabla-VST_samplelib" or so for each VST. Most plug-ins don't install their libraries into the VST folder by default and the reason for this is to avoid exactly the problem you describe.

I'd move the sample libraries outside the VST folder and direct the VST to the folder(s) where I put the libraries. This is especially reasonable, if you have e.g. your system, programs and plugs on an SSD. Sample libraries can get quite huge and would crowd i.e. fill the SSD rather soon. Keep VSTs and libraries apart. Having executables (which VST-dlls are) and data files in one place generally slows down the system.

If you keep an eye on where files go while you install things it should be no PITA to change things later.
..or have the VST scan optional..

It all works very well in FL Studio. No scan until you tell it to, and when you do it's quickly done, not like in Reaper. This is for the same computer and same plugin folder - everything. (Of course nothing else works well in FL Studio, but that's another matter.. )
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:42 PM   #33
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I'm not too familiar with FL (anymore) but Reaper is different in many ways. It has hundreds of options to en-/disable and it's quite easy to mess things up. The first thing that would come up is the question "Reaper doesn't find my VSTs.. WHY???"

In fact (having worked with a slow computer for a long time) to my experience Reaper (YMMV) is quite fast. Scanning VSTs in Vegas, Soundforge, Cubase... and many others a scan could take several minutes if you had a little (maybe even one byte) change in your VST folder, while Reaper just examined the changes instead of the whole folder.
Sue me for ignorance, but here, reading a VST folder of about 2.3 GB the scan takes about three seconds on startup. Surely when having gigs and gigs of sample libraries in that folder it takes longer to read, because every single file (although not read entirely) needs to be opened to check whether it's a .dll or something else.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not generally against such an option, but I think if you decide to use the VST folder for things it isn't designed for, you might have to take the disadvantages that come with this decision. However, I would neither fight nor put down your request . Just my 2 cents.


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Old 09-09-2013, 06:32 AM   #34
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Hundreds of options is one of the top reasons why Reaper is so pro. The "let's drop this or that as option cause it might confuse people" is for amateur programs and obviously not Reaper's philosophy.

Reaper is not extremely slow to scan the directory(ies), but it's not all that fast either. Yes I know there are other programs that organize and scan the plugins in a much worse way, but with respect that's not the point here; it's simply that some people like myself would like that there's an option to disable VST scan at every single startup which would sort out the whole issue.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:23 PM   #35
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I see your point and as I said, I wouldn't fight such an option.


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Old 09-20-2013, 07:26 PM   #36
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I had seen this or another thread and have been meaning to at least determine more about what the actual scan is. Just did so and here are the results. This is for no other reason than technical information....

Running process monitor then filtering for only VST scan activity.... reaper is only scanning each directory and getting a list of the filenames. It is NOT scanning VSTs in quite the same way where it opens each one and examines it like it would in the manual VST scan. There are two points to this...

1) It may save much time later in the session in responsiveness as you actually use the VSTs because it already knows about them properly. Its just seeing what files are there and should really take less time than anyone would really care about.

2) If #1 isn't the case there may be some value in the ability to disable it.

Interestingly........

One thing I noticed (that D.Bop may be interested in) is that only his VST causes a complete load of the VST DLL file which I don't understand. I had previously witnessed that there is an long delay on my system while it is loading "Stereo Channel" every time I open Reaper and the delay is responsible for much of my Reaper load time. I can tell because process monitor shows the bytes being read in chunks from the disk where everything else is just "Query Directory".

This could very well be my system but it made me wonder if this could be happening with other users and other VSTs. If so, I could see why scanning is generating complaints AND if we can answer why D.Bops VST does this on my system, maybe we could find/fix something we previously didn't realize was occurring.
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:32 PM   #37
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As karbomusic has just mentioned, if you are paying attention on a 'clear cache and rescan' you can SEE which plugins there are that Reaper is getting hung up on when scanning. If you have added new plugins since last Reaper boot, you can also watch it discover and scan the new ones on the flash screen during boot.

My machine and specs are nothing special, but the only time Reaper takes more than a very few precious seconds when loading is when it opens with a very large project. Now, someone here said his Reaper takes 15 to 20 minutes to boot? I suggest something else is very wrong in his system or config.

Many others gave no indication of time required. Without this, I don't think any of us can have much to say. If you are saying 10 seconds or less, I'd suggest it is our time that is being wasted. If it takes 20 seconds and it turns out you have folders chuck full of the most complex, obese, and/or massive sample-filled plugins on the planet, I'd suggest you learn to deal with it or lose some weight.

I think many of us have loads and loads of plugins of all sorts these days -- bulky on down to minuscule. Including instruments, at last count I'm loading 212 but only keep some 60 of those around because I can't bear to say goodbye to them. In any case, I always have Reaper boot up on a light project, and I've never bothered to time it as it's been so insubstantial -- can't be more than 5-6 seconds.

If you have loads of plugins but are not opening to a massive project, it should only take those few seconds. If it is substantially more, I think you ought to assess your entire setup, as I'm quite certain something is wrong. Personally, I don't want any option that fails to look over everything IMPORTANT when Reaper starts. I think you just asking for (more) trouble by going that route.
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:42 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V'ger View Post
With all of Reaper's options and ini's I was sure I could find the switch but even after searching the forums all I've come across is the obvious one where one disables names\types.

Any ideas or is this something forgotten implemented?
Never had reaper scan or search for on start up, all reaper does is load the VST that you are working with in your project the more vsts you use the more time it will take to load that project.

on the other hand if you have no vsts in you project then reaper boots up like a light switch but no scanning or searching,

all the searching and scanning is done when you tell reaper to scan inside of preference at VST setting, and add vst, and detect vst, and rescan, all this is found in vst settings, the only time when reaper will scan is when you tell it to.

once reaper has scanned your VSTs in preference VST setting it want scan again at start up.
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:12 AM   #39
karbomusic
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once reaper has scanned your VSTs in preference VST setting it want scan again at start up.
It does scan the directory and all subdirectories for files at every launch but its not a formal VST scan/load (unless its a new VST) and I'd consider it normal for any application to do this. I must warn this is somewhat speculation but makes the most sense:

"Give me a list of the files in the directory, if that doesn't match my cache, formally scan load any VST that isn't already in my cache otherwise move on".

The above is why you don't need to manually rescan if you add a new VST to a folder then launch Reaper. Additionally, if you have a VST directory with 300 presets, it scans those too but as I said its basically enumerating them at the directory level and making a list, not actually loading the DLLs. That should take very little time. Except...

In the anomaly I mentioned in my previous post which shouldn't be happening. Stereo Channel gets enumerated/scanned/processed/loaded as if it were new on every launch and takes several seconds to do so. If some other user has this anomaly with multiple VSTs it could potentially, exponentially increase the load time making it appear as a regular VST scan. Find the reason that occurs, solve this problem.

If anyone has it to the extent I just explained (the anomaly) then as Telenator hinted, make a video of it or something to help confirm/deny which behavior it is.
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Last edited by karbomusic; 09-22-2013 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:31 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Telenator View Post
I'd suggest you learn to deal with it or lose some weight.
I'm really surprised by how many here would rather people re-arrange their hard disks to something they don't really want or accept a daily pain rather than backing the request for a simple tick box in options.. It's slightly bizarre to be honest.
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