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04-14-2018, 12:20 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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FX WINDOWS: Never Steal Keycommands Focus
Hi
This is a feature request related to the FX windows behavior in relationship with the user keyboard inputs.
Is it possible to make FX windows never steal the main focus which is responsible of receiving user keycommands?
Here is more details...
Context: mixing only with keyboard and mouse and relying alot on keycommands to not interupt workflow while playing the audio.
Ok so right now a user can set keycommands for shortcuts to execute actions and scripts. This is my favorite feature of Reaper and is extremely powerful. I find it WAY MORE ADVANCED and flexible than Cubase so this is great value to Reaper.
Problem is that when the user clicks on a parameter inside a FX window, that window can steal focus even if the user has chosen to ignore all keyboard inputs option. This behavior makes keycommands useless until you notice you lost focus and go clic where needed. This means our super advanced keycommand setup is not working correctly because of the focus stealing.
As an example:
I have a shortcut to toggle show/hide the FX window on the track undermouse cursor. But lets say I adjust a parameter in the EQ from the FX window or even if its floating, the FX will steal main focus and disable any keycommand which renders them useless until you realize it and go click somewhere in the main window to give it focus. Please note that this is not linked with my specific example keycommand, its the same with others. I also notice that there some areas inside FX windows that if you click it the main focus returns: such as the outer borders of the window.
So to clarify just a bit more - I have left hand near the keyboard shortcuts that I know without even looking and expect to press on them without interruption. Lets say I did a EQ adjustment that fits nice in the chorus and want to jump immediately to the verse to see if it is still good there in that context, I'll take right hand to press num pads for go-to markers. All these functions get interupted as soon as you click inside a FX to adjust parameters so in the end the shrotcuts are kinda useless since I end up reclicking all the time rather than using keycommands that work 50/50
Solution proposed:
Allow FX windows to never act as superior than the Main Focus which is responsible of receiving keycommands unless specified by the user.
There might be a challenge with users of control surfaces or with the "last touched" parameter but there must be a way to do this to be best of all worlds?
I'm open to discussion and better ideas, all I want to is help make this be better if possible since it can be very annoying in a mixing session that uses mouse and keyboard a hundred percent.
Thanks for everything and cheers,
Have a good day
Last edited by D Rocks; 04-20-2018 at 07:42 AM.
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04-20-2018, 05:19 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Bump with a huge child "pplleeeaassseee?"
Friday morning.. full of hope and anticipation ? Haha
Thanks in advance
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04-20-2018, 07:28 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,813
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sorry if it doesn't help! i am using always this shortcut!
SWS/S&M: Toggle show FX chain windows for selected tracks
It's really useful, specially since i am lots of times on a 1280 x800 screen. Hope it fits a bit there too.
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04-20-2018, 07:34 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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hey thanks for the reply bro
You're right, this is the function I use most, with one step before, which is "select track under mouse cursor".
I also use other shortcuts similar to that with no "under mouse cursor" step and they seem to be a bit more reliable at the moment since clicking to select forces the main window focus. But its still not optimal since you would want the selected track to always respond to the keycommands you send, even if you modified your FXs. Though how it is right now is that the FX windows you click to adjust parameters will become main focus and steal the keystrokes you'd expect to work.
Last edited by D Rocks; 04-20-2018 at 07:42 AM.
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04-20-2018, 07:42 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,813
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yes ! i get you . An inspector (maybe Heda) should do the job here, right now i couldn't do music so well without this shortcut so saved my life! told just in case! Cheers good luck
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04-20-2018, 07:56 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Thanks, I'll check for the time being if the Heda script could help have a good day
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04-20-2018, 07:56 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,813
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you know you have this option right:
maybe the ideal, would be a passthrue like for midi editor , so that we could mix reaper shortcuts with plugins shortcut.. but anyway, it's life : ) would be defenitly better , since some plugins workflow might benefit of using shortcuts too: coff coff : Melodyne
Last edited by deeb; 04-20-2018 at 08:03 AM.
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04-20-2018, 08:01 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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+1
I am running Reaper in full screen so I always just throw the mouse to the top border and click there for a main window focus
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04-20-2018, 09:50 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Deeb: yes this option is activated and works well but it is related to the Reaper FX chain window. Although the plugins themselves are not affected by this option currently. So if you open the FX chain the keycommands still work but if you click inside an actual plugin that is in that FX chain window it looses focus automatically. Same if the plugin is floating window. So problem resides with the plugins GUI.
BFooz: yeah I get you. Im starting to develop such a reflex but its very annoying as you probably agree.
Last edited by D Rocks; 04-20-2018 at 11:21 AM.
Reason: typos
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04-20-2018, 10:57 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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In the meantime, try this script I've just wrote. It focuses the main window back immediately after you focus the FX window (as the API sees it).
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04-20-2018, 11:22 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz
In the meantime, try this script I've just wrote. It focuses the main window back immediately after you focus the FX window (as the API sees it).
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wow thanks man, I'll try tonight after work!!
So if I adjust a parameter inside, say, ReaComp it steals focus in that moment but when I release the parameter the script puts focus back?
It means it runs in the background while you work?
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04-20-2018, 12:06 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz
In the meantime, try this script I've just wrote. It focuses the main window back immediately after you focus the FX window (as the API sees it).
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Err, wow, this script seems amazing and a Godsent for mac users.
Does it indeed has to run in the background constantly ?
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04-20-2018, 12:12 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
Err, wow, this script seems amazing and a Godsent for mac users.
Does it indeed has to run in the background constantly ?
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Yea, the main function runs constantly but the "focusing" part only when the project state is changed (meaning user does an action)
It does not eat any significant CPU. Currently I have 9 deferred scripts running all the time, some of them are a lot more advanced than this.
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04-20-2018, 12:28 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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duddeee this is genious!!
I see the main focus come back like 20ms after I adjust a ReaEq settings!
Great! And it works when the script is running! If I turn it off the keystrokes are stolen.
You just gave me the best solution meanwhile I'm so happy thanks man!
EDIT: Since the script is acting globally on Reaper states, it even auto-close routing windows, pan mode menu etc. It can't be treated seperatly right now because of API limits? Meaning that a Window is a window and not differenciated right? Anyways its kinda cool. For example you drag and drop a send from track to track in the mixer and the popup window auto closes and youre back to mixing haha! Genious, genious genious
While we're on the same topic, Is there such thing as a lua defer script to: "automatically pin Fx windows"?
Last edited by D Rocks; 04-20-2018 at 12:46 PM.
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04-20-2018, 01:05 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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- I first execute the script.
- Then i insert a plugin on a Track ; the plugin FX window now gets focus.
- I hit shortcut K, which i use for opening Virtual Keyboard window.
But that doesn't work , i notice that the plugin FX window still has focus, there is no focus back to Main.
So the keyshortcut doesn't work. (it just gives a beep sound, notifying me the keyshortcut doesn't work).
Am i doing something wrong ?
Is it because i am on mac that the script won't work maybe ?
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04-20-2018, 01:51 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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hmm maybe in this case the ReaperState did not repport a change on opening the virtual keyboard. Because as soon as you let go a control in an opened window, it steals focus, then the script automatically re-focus the main window in like 20-30 milliseconds.
try touching something on the virtual keyboard to see if it toggles the focus
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04-20-2018, 02:11 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rocks
Since the script is acting globally on Reaper states, it even auto-close routing windows, pan mode menu etc.
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This all is just really basic few lines done in 5 minutes. Would need some more programming to make it right. But this is actually pretty good that it auto closes send windows. If you then open it manually by clicking on an existing send, it stays open, I'm liking it.
Actually it works like this because the API does not report when the FX window is unfocused, so the script is actually always thinking the fx window is focused so always focusing the main window.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
But that doesn't work , i notice that the plugin FX window still has focus, there is no focus back to Main.
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When I insert a plugin, the focus is changed to the main window (I'm on windows 7). Also notice that when you open a plugin window manually, the focus stays on it until you change some parameter.
The script is really basic, even if you are not a programmer, if you take a look at it you'll see. There are no corner cases solved or similar.
Autohotkey would maybe work better. Don't know about a mac alternative.
Last edited by bFooz; 04-20-2018 at 02:21 PM.
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04-20-2018, 02:22 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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you did an excellent script it really helps for now.
Following my question about if its possible to do similar with Always pinning FX windows... well,
I've looked at all the api functions in the help page and theres nothing related to the windows pins, or atleast nothing called with a logical name in relation to this.
Do you know if its possible?
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04-20-2018, 04:38 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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I don't think pinning is possible straight through the ReaScript, but maybe it would be via modifying reaper-pinstates.ini
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04-20-2018, 05:51 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Ohhh interesting Ill have a look at this! Wasnt aware of this
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04-20-2018, 10:39 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rocks
try touching something on the virtual keyboard to see if it toggles the focus
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So i did this but still doesn't work : no focus back to Main.
I then opened a VSTi plugin window > no focus back to Main.
Then i touched a knob in the VSTi window > no focus back to Main.
Reaper 5.80pre2 - 64bit.
OSX 10.13.4
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04-21-2018, 01:20 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rocks
Allow FX windows to never act as superior than the Main Focus which is responsible of receiving keycommands unless specified by the user.
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I think the default should be to leave focus to the last used window (an fx window or any other) and what you propose might be optional behavior, on a per window basis. I'm an extensive keyboard user myself and there are many plugins where you can for instance scroll through presets using arrow keys or page up/down. Or when you need to type a value in an fx window. Needless to say in these cases focus should stay there.
I also use window title to focus a window, as bFooz does, and I tend to think it's kind of the user's responsibility to keep track of where the input focus is. IMHO there's nothing wrong in clicking inside a window, then outside of it to let it know that you're done. Of course this philosophy has limits.
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04-21-2018, 04:51 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Hey Ivan
Cool thanks for your reply!
You actually point to the side of things that makes me think of WHAT would be best solution to suit every needs.
I think keycommands should always be superior because of what their nature is: shortcuts to definite actions.
But I also understand the need to have focus on the FX window too. So we have to find a balance between the two type of uses.
For now, while theres no other solution, the script bFooz made really helps this case. I recommend it strongly for anyone having same mixing type as described in Original Post
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04-22-2018, 11:39 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.lt
I think the default should be to leave focus to the last used window (an fx window or any other) and what you propose might be optional behavior, on a per window basis. I'm an extensive keyboard user myself and there are many plugins where you can for instance scroll through presets using arrow keys or page up/down. Or when you need to type a value in an fx window. Needless to say in these cases focus should stay there.
... I tend to think it's kind of the user's responsibility to keep track of where the input focus is.
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I think the better solution would be: Let the focus where the user put it.
But the should be an exception: Only the transport actions "play", "pause"
and "stop" should always be transferred to the main window.
And the best solution would be: Also all macros (=customer actions), which
include any transport action "play", "pause" or "stop" should always be
transferred to the main window.
This would be the best of both worlds.
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04-22-2018, 11:49 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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I think it's subjective to peoples workflow.
For instance: i never use (and never want to use) keyshortcuts that are "ment for" a Plugin.
I just want ALL keyshortcuts i have made up in Action List, to go to Main.
So that won't not only be transport related keyshortcuts.
It would be keyshortcuts for ALL Actions, including Custom Actions.
Simple example:
I have a shortcut assigned (in Action List - Main section) for transposing a selected MIDI item 1 semitone up.
I just want that shortcut to be still working, although at that moment, i have a Plugin FX window in Focus (so Main has not focus).
Mouseclicking on Main to give it focus, so that the transpose shortcut works again, is utterly cumbersome workflow.
Just my 0.02$.
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04-22-2018, 11:57 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Thanks for feedbacks guys its good to see how we are all differently using Reaper.
As for me I agree with Vanhaze on his démonstration. I also work like this and thats the origin of this Feature request.
Currently I am wondering if someone can program a script in either .lua or .eel... or any other method to make all FX window automatically get the PINNED status so they never get hidden under the MIXER for example..
But at the same time keep all my keycommands working. So my best friend right now as been BFooz for scripting an auto focus back to main window... it really helps almost as much as if Reaper had been updated with the feature.
Im just looking how to always pin FX windows now.
So if any one knows how to do this please either post here or PM me
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04-22-2018, 12:09 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Dunno if this is useful info regarding the topic but for mac users;
In Logic Pro X it works like this:
- You have Musical Typing keyboard (equivalent to Reaper's VMK) in Focus.
Now, ALL shortcuts, assigned to Main functions still work, except the ones that are single keyshortcuts that are assigned to the different notes in Musical Typing Keyboard.
- You have a Plugin Window in Focus:
Now, ALL shortcuts, assigned to Main functions (also single keyshortcuts) still work.
Now this workflow would be Utopia for me in Reaper and i still don't get why it would be totally possible in Logic Pro X and not in Reaper.
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04-22-2018, 12:43 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
Now this workflow would be Utopia for me in Reaper and i still don't get why it would be totally possible in Logic Pro X and not in Reaper.
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This comes back to the bad UX which have been debated too many times around the forum.
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04-22-2018, 11:33 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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What do you mean by "bad UX" ?
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04-23-2018, 02:15 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
What do you mean by "bad UX" ?
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"User eXperience", how good is software control thought out and implemented
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04-23-2018, 04:04 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 499
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Imagine not giving focus to NI Kontact or a plugin of similar complexity. How on earth are you going to edit scripts or enter output names if another window constantly steals focus?
Another approach to this problem would be to introduce shortcut priority. High priority ("global") shortcuts would be handled by Reaper before any other window gets a chance to receive them.
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04-23-2018, 04:30 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.lt
Imagine not giving focus to NI Kontact or a plugin of similar complexity. How on earth are you going to edit scripts or enter output names if another window constantly steals focus?
Another approach to this problem would be to introduce shortcut priority. High priority ("global") shortcuts would be handled by Reaper before any other window gets a chance to receive them.
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Thats the question I also have because there are surely very useful times to focus the FX for some shortcuts or computer keyboard controlling.
Your final idea seems logical and good to me.
It would give the responsibility/freedom to the user and not on the developers to choose which ones are prioritized or not.
If this gets sophisticated enough we could combine global shortcuts to control the main Reaper window and control FX windows for those who work this way.
What you guys think of this?
Is it logical to other long time users?
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04-23-2018, 04:34 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
Dunno if this is useful info regarding the topic but for mac users;
In Logic Pro X it works like this:
- You have Musical Typing keyboard (equivalent to Reaper's VMK) in Focus.
Now, ALL shortcuts, assigned to Main functions still work, except the ones that are single keyshortcuts that are assigned to the different notes in Musical Typing Keyboard.
- You have a Plugin Window in Focus:
Now, ALL shortcuts, assigned to Main functions (also single keyshortcuts) still work.
Now this workflow would be Utopia for me in Reaper and i still don't get why it would be totally possible in Logic Pro X and not in Reaper.
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Yes thats very well explained for how it works. Id also be blessed to see that.
Ivan.it's idea just above this post is really good though it seems even wider and more inclusive to many styles of workflow
Last edited by D Rocks; 04-23-2018 at 03:32 PM.
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04-24-2018, 10:09 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496
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yes, yes, +1 here.
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