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Old 01-30-2011, 07:25 PM   #1
jellotree
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Default Take my money & STOP ME before I download another amp sim demo!

Full disclosure:
I buy my music software. It's not much - Reason 5 and Reaper and a cheap Presonus Studio One.

I would like to buy a software guitar/bass modeller.

I would like to give some hard working music software company their well deserved fruits of their labour, but there are so many *$%^%##@! demos floating out there now that I could record forever. I'll test one out, get inspired for a tune and lay down the tracks before I lose the spark. I keep using them in my tracks and I think, yup, I think I'll pony up the money for this one, and then --- a new amp sim is announced, or someone mentions one that have not heard before, and I download the trial, and use that one.

I am currently testing out GRig, and lo, in my email there is an annoucement from IKmultimedia that a new Amplitube is coming. Since it's new, it's gonna be better than everything else out there. And Revalver mkiii.5 just came out recently...

So I better wait before I purchase an inferior product, right? Can guitar modelling really get better in the near future?

Could anyone offer their insights as to how the guitar software companies score in customer service?
In upgrade pricing? Fair or unfair? Are the upgrades worth it for the price?

Thanks.
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:55 PM   #2
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Are we brothers?

Personally.....I love Guitar Rig 4. I also have ReValver and Studio Devil...and in my opinion....Guitar Rig 4 blows them away. Howthefuckever, the other two aren't that bad. Also...for free or very cheap, there is Acmebargigs Shred...you might want to check that out. I think you have to look at these plugins just like looking at "real" amps. Marshalls great.....but Fender says there great...and they are great...and then there "a million others" there all great....so just find one you like and go with it....you can't have them all.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:19 PM   #3
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Give a look at Vandal too .
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:51 PM   #4
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might depend a lot on how much and what kind of sims you actually want to have on hand. Grig is pretty complete IMO and Ampli is durn good also...
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:48 PM   #5
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I have Guitar Rig 4 as well as Amplitube 3. Both are useful sims, but I find myself using Amplitube 3 more for guitar stuff. Unless I'm doing heavy guitars, which I find Guitar Rig 4 has some nice saturated thick heavy tones. That being said, here's my shameless plug(pun intended). I'm looking to sell my Amplitube 3 license. $150 for anyone interested. That's including IK's ridiculous $50 transfer fee. PM if anyone's interested. I've recently repaired my Vox ToneLab and haven't touched either sim in a while.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:21 PM   #6
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You'll forgive me for being a bit confused here. What I didn't catch is that you are going to part with AT3, but you use it mostly? Sorry to micro-analyze. The only other thing that I can say (I think) about AT3 is I think it's safe to say it will either be available soon.....or after next years namm LOL!

At any rate, I have been and will always be an amp sim ho. The two that are best imho are what you already have GR4 and AT3.

@peavy: I have the demo downloaded and ready to go.........but.......I started a thread over at KVR about it and it really seems to be buggy. I don't want to test yet another demo, actually like the sounds and then have issues. Still though, we'll see.

@vandal: Samp/magix isn't going to be x64 anytime soon. They are long winded when it comes to updates and of course they are PC only (which is ok by me.....just saying) I recently sold some very good magix plugs because of how steadfast they are at NOT updating things. (variverb in particular was very good)

ALL amp sims have fatal flaws. There is the latency issues, the harsh bright high end (lp filters anyone?) the lack of depth but they are doable and convenient.

I'd LOVE to win the lottery, buy a big house up in the mountains and use BAD CAT'S, but.....that is just a pipe dream..........
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:14 AM   #7
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AcmeBarGigs Shred is pretty awesome.

V.1.06 is free and sound pretty good... but 2.0 is in the works. And it only costs $25 as a preorder. And if preordered you get to beta 1.5 which is Awesome.

And best yet.. he is a forum user small guy.. not a humungo company.
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pc999 View Post
Give a look at Vandal too .
Actually, vandal is probably the worst amp sim made. The only people who seem to love it are techno loopers who do NOT want a realistic guitar sound.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyGinese View Post
AcmeBarGigs Shred is pretty awesome.

V.1.06 is free and sound pretty good... but 2.0 is in the works. And it only costs $25 as a preorder. And if preordered you get to beta 1.5 which is Awesome.

And best yet.. he is a forum user small guy.. not a humungo company.
+1000 - Between the new HEADCASE beta and the new IFACE there's an awesome arsenal of Sounds here.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:26 AM   #10
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I own Guitar Rig 4 and have played with Amplitube. If I had to recommend one specifically for guitar use..probably Amplitube. Guitar Rig is defiantly useful though, even just to use its effects on non guitar sounds.

Try out the demos though and see if one suits you. If it does what your after, stick with it.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:29 AM   #11
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Its a very tricky subject because there's so much subjective taste in play. I've been a Line6 chap since before the Pod even existed, but I changed to Guitar Rig 3 because I really fancied the flexible routing for doing all manner of interesting dual sound blends and so forth. And indeed, that was everything I hoped it would be, really enjoyed myself, learnt the product well and how to get it how I liked it to sound, but I never quite got there - something always seemed a bit wrong with the sound. So I went back to Line6. I hear GR4 is much 'better' but I'm 0% tempted, because its not about 'better' for me, its about me liking what I like. I think you do need to just find which one does it for you.

TL;DR : Keep downloading demos
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:28 AM   #12
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ABG Shred/Head Case >> ReValver mkIII >>> everyone else down below (yes, even GR4 - it's just not "it").
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:55 AM   #13
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I'll also throw my in my opinion that ABG Shred/Headcase is far better than any of the others including GR4 and AT3. It's in a whole different league.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:12 AM   #14
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Default Hey Finda Fishy

I have to say I really like your tunes on Reverbnation! Did you do any of those songs with Head Case?

Paul
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:24 AM   #15
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As has been said amp sims are a very emotive subject and they do have their weaknesses.You can over come the,"digital" sound to a degree using a valve pre-amp like the Art Tube MP that I got as a power supply for my Condenser mic but also to had a little warmth to the guitar/bass.

I like my Line6 Podfarm amp sim software that is part of my Toneport Studio GX

http://line6.com/podstudiogx/
http://line6.com/podstudiogx/sounds.html

not because it may not the best set of amp sims around but it's easy to use and allows me to run Guitar/Bass and Vocals through it plus the device has a great sound card built in that I use now most of the time instead of my Emu 404 and once familiar it's easy to dial in sounds or try out any of the thousands of free patches for it plus zero latency monitoring and invaluable tuner built in(Often overlooked but wouldn't be without now).

http://line6.com/customtone/

Check out this if you like heavy guitar,

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=73750

Or this is you like a sweeter sound,

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_5897720

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Old 01-31-2011, 06:32 AM   #16
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Thanks Paul!

Three of the Music to Murder songs were done with the Shred 1.5x beta, which is now Headcase - Crawl, In My Final Days and Cold Soul. Presence was done with Guitar Rig 3.

The Choke stuff was all amps - Classic 50, AC 30 and a JCM 800.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:36 AM   #17
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One of these looks like they are worth the money,

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...light=amp+plug

Plugs straight into the guitar
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:38 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah View Post
I have Guitar Rig 4 as well as Amplitube 3. Both are useful sims, but I find myself using Amplitube 3 more for guitar stuff. Unless I'm doing heavy guitars, which I find Guitar Rig 4 has some nice saturated thick heavy tones. That being said, here's my shameless plug(pun intended). I'm looking to sell my Amplitube 3 license. $150 for anyone interested. That's including IK's ridiculous $50 transfer fee. PM if anyone's interested. I've recently repaired my Vox ToneLab and haven't touched either sim in a while.
You really cant beat a nice guitar fx processor.

If you can I would sugest you to see either VoxTone Labs, Boss M5-25 (the one I have) or Line6 HD. Plus all the advantages ofnot being in your PC (although, limited reamp capability).
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:42 AM   #19
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Well, as far as hardware simulators are concerned, I will gladly say out loud: FUCK Line6, Boss, TC Electronics, etc.!



Fractal Audio AxeFX (Standard/Ultra) is the best there is.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:52 AM   #20
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Fractal Audio AxeFX (Standard/Ultra) is the best there is.
Agreed! Gotta have the Benjamins for something like that tho....I have a buddy who has an AxeFX...blows everything away!
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:03 AM   #21
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You Americans have it easy! AxeFX Ultra is $2000 over there. In Europe, via (the only official) Dutch distributor, it's 2200€, which translates to $3000...
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:12 AM   #22
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You Americans have it easy! AxeFX Ultra is $2000 over there. In Europe, via (the only official) Dutch distributor, it's 2200€, which translates to $3000...
Yeah we have it easy....that is why I enjoy living here :-)
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:21 AM   #23
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Classic case of paralysis by analysis. There is so much software available and so many contrasting opinions on which is better/best. If you’re waiting for all the options to be sorted out for you, you will be waiting for a long time my friend.

When I was choosing my first DAW I spent weeks weighing the pros and cons of Cubase, Sonar, and Reaper. I finally gave myself a deadline, did as much research and “demo’ing” as possible and forced myself to make a purchase on a certain date. Been Reapin’ ever since


You have to take the plunge and just buy something. Set a deadline, research, demo, stop foolin’ around and get some good sounds. A craftsman needs tools to get work done. Funny how spending money on things forces you to commit to them and make them work. I just ordered GR4 yesterday. I’m looking forward to messing around with it this week.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:33 AM   #24
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Yeah we have it easy....that is why I enjoy living here :-)
Well... apart from your health insurance system which largely sucks... I wouldn't want to live there just because of that.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:47 AM   #25
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I tried out Amplitube 3 and GR4. I like them both, but I ultimately prefer the sound of Guitar Rig. Also, I really dig the fx it comes with.

On a side note:
I'll probably snag the new Vox Tonelab EX when it comes out later this year. I miss having hardware fx. I'm sure GR4 will still get some use though, even if it's mostly for the fx.

Also, as mentioned by Sheppola. Those Vox amplug headphone amps sound nice. I have the AC30 model and I love it.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:33 AM   #26
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Well... apart from your health insurance system which largely sucks... I wouldn't want to live there just because of that.
Stay healthy my friend :-)
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:45 AM   #27
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I like the x30 free thing a lot. I usually use eq's as cab sims lately, but there's tons of cool ir's out there that work great
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:47 AM   #28
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I am a POD Farm fan. To me it's the simplest to use, and has the best sound.

And... some of the built in effects are worth the price alone - the "Cavernous" reverb has to be the nicest software reverb I've ever heard.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:13 AM   #29
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You'll forgive me for being a bit confused here. What I didn't catch is that you are going to part with AT3, but you use it mostly? Sorry to micro-analyze. The only other thing that I can say (I think) about AT3 is I think it's safe to say it will either be available soon.....or after next years namm LOL!
I used it mostly before I repaired my floor unit. Nothing can beat a hardware unit IMO, especially when there's a tube implemented in the design like the Vox ToneLab... it just can't be beat for the natural guitar tones that A3 is great at. The true discrepancy is in the "feel". Even if I output my DI signal to my guitar amp(Atomic), the Vox still "feels" better for some reason that I can't scientifically explain.

Either way, A3 license is up for sale. Hope that clears the confusion.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:15 AM   #30
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I own Guitar Rig 4 and have played with Amplitube. If I had to recommend one specifically for guitar use..probably Amplitube. Guitar Rig is defiantly useful though, even just to use its effects on non guitar sounds.

Try out the demos though and see if one suits you. If it does what your after, stick with it.
Yep, I use GR4 either for heavy saturated metal tones, or FX-ish stuff for guitars, or any other track for that matter.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:20 AM   #31
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I realize it's not software (well it is internally) but I'd put my money on a Digitech GSP1101. You can find them used and even new they are a bargain for how fantastic they sound. Equally important to me and other guitarists who record with me is how they feel and the GSP1101 has a great natural feel to it with response to dynamics. You can use the editor on your same workstation as well.

For bass, a Tech 21 unit or just a nice dependable high quality DI.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:23 AM   #32
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such a difficult task to make a rank of the best amp sims around there, due to the different tastes and guitars.

First of all, your amp sim deserves you spend some time to tweak it and save your own rig setting, whatever it is.
I do believe that the same amp sim, whether free or not, will sound different with different guitars, because the impedance and tech stuff like that.

I usually go for the ABG products or Voxengo Boogex impulses, making my own presets, levelling the signal for the best results and, most of all, passing my guitar through my hardware Vox AmpPlug first (few euros for the best deal ever...)
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
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ABG Shred/Head Case >> ReValver mkIII >>> everyone else down below (yes, even GR4 - it's just not "it").
$26... I may have to try out HeadCase. Thanks ED.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:35 AM   #34
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I just dropped the cash for HeadCase and will be checking it out tonight.....I have been a Shred 1.06 fan for a while....

Anyone have any presets I can use to start out?
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:50 AM   #35
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$26... I may have to try out HeadCase. Thanks ED.
You'll like it!
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:03 PM   #36
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....you can't have them all.

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Old 01-31-2011, 03:27 PM   #37
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I am a POD Farm fan. To me it's the simplest to use, and has the best sound.

And... some of the built in effects are worth the price alone - the "Cavernous" reverb has to be the nicest software reverb I've ever heard.
Give me the tube Echoplex or the Space Echo any day! Playing through either of those always makes me smile. For the money, I think Pod Farm is a great set of tools. I just wish it wasn't tied to the hardware dongle/interface.
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:53 PM   #38
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I would love to hear an amp sim that can duplicate a crunchy guitar feedback loop, that chunka-chunka sound of a muted power chord being driven by near-feedback volume levels.
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:50 PM   #39
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Where to start? There's a lot here to digest. I guess what I was getting at was that the diffeneces were subtle in software sims, and if I was going to plunk down money on any one, it would be to the folks that had a decent upgrade policy and good upgrades.

I'm still in the early going of this, but I'm underwhelmed at the difference between Guitar Rig 3 and Guitar Rig 4. Sure Control Room and a few more amps, But did the sound get significantly better? (and not knocking the tone of GR3 here, either, I might add). GRig, however , out of all the sims I have tested out so far, has the nicest sounding effects. IMO.

The bottom end of the scale (for me) for effects would be Revalver. However, I have managed to get some very good sounds out of Revalver. In some ways, it is my favourite, but lack of excellent Fx and inability to record ideas when in standlone mode is a turnoff.

Amplitube metal, hendrix, and 2 are good and you can even get some great clean sounds out of Metal. I have yet to demo Amp 3 and Amp 4 is around the corner...
I am a bit underwhelmed at the Fx in the Amplitubes I have demoed thus far and some of the post amp Fx are ludicrous.

Vandal is simple, sounds good enough, but could use more Fx.

I could not get a good sound out of Shred. However, that was one of the first things I did try, and I know a little bit more now about tone, so maybe I could revisit that.

I have yet to try out Overloud,Studio Devil Pro and others that don't come to mind right away, but I think Overloud has another out too...

I never considered hardware Fx before this thread, but maybe I will. The Tonelab looks interesting and at a reasonable price too.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:18 PM   #40
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To me it's never been about which ones are the absolute best (I don't subscribe to the high-horse that is trying to make an electric guitar sound "natural"). I could probably try them all and give myself a good idea of what sounds best. But at the end of the day if I am spending money on one over the other, it's about how much better one sounds over the rest.

I know AxeFX are currently the best, but by how much? I can use freebies like Shred, Nick Crow, and LePou plugs and get a sound "realistic" enough to fool 99.9% of my listeners into thinking I do it just like the big boys (whatever that means). Is it worth that .1% of the population who knows something is wrong with my guitar? If my mixes don't sound good, I catch it before anyone else ever hears it. If the mix sounds good, the process I used to arrive there does not matter.

For the record, I use a combination of all the above-mentioned freebies and Pod Farm. I may find more freebies in the future, and I may opt to support ABG and small-time people like ABG, but I will not likely ever need to spend serious cash on an amp simulator. Every proper blind test I have ever seen with amp sims (where an engineer and not a guitarist is dialing in and mixing down the sounds) shows that even the yuppy crowd can't tell the difference.

I do think there are some people who need the right stuff though. Clients don't want to hear you talk about great freebie plugs that don't get full-page advertisements in the magazines they read. Certain guitarist subcultures (I'm thinking some metal circles here mostly) only allow for certain exceptions to the "Right Way" of doing things.

To each his own.
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