Every unequal take is automatically split

[inarisound]

I became "that guy" who post known issue in the Bug Reports...


I really respect everything that Cockos is doing with the new updates and fixes, I know that you have a lot to take care off...

Thank you Justin and Schwa.


I have to post this req in the Bug reports because this issue is not a feature... and nobody sees it as a feature.
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If you have uneven recordings it will automatically split the take that is longer. And splitting keeps happening every single take that is uneven.


I really hope there could be something done on this department.
This issue has been requested and discussed since 2012.
Here are some links to cover my report legitimacy :

http://homerecording.com/bbs/user-fo...-takes-345306/

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=147243

https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1063810


And here is most recent FR... witch if you read, majority is confused or try to suggest wired workarounds.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=201099

______________________

While there is an option of "Create new items in separate lanes" it is also broken and unusable.

1) "Create new items in separate lanes" would eliminate the basic and only need of multiple takes on the same track - comping.

2) If you split takes using that method... it would automatically add extra takes with the piece that was splitted being transferred into that new take.


This behavior is not expected nor it helps the end user.... It is absolutely a Bug... not a feature.

The bottom line of all this. Please introduce a Bug fix that is really much needed.
You will see how many people would hug you and say big thank you.

If not irl, at least in their <3

sincerely yours,

inarisound

[inarisound]

Oww common guys... this behavior is not what any of the users would expect.

At least acknowledge or say.... something =[


When I have 10-15 takes (witch is not a lot btw) that are randomly split in different places it's not the best way to start comping your takes.


please address this issue... =(

[EvilDragon]

It's not an issue because it's by design... If things didn't change since 2012, it's unlikely they will change now. Or perhaps ever. This seems to be ingrained to how Reaper works and changing it would break many other things, so devs won't be doing that - there are probably very good internal reasons for this. You can either use time selection auto-punch, or record in FIPM mode then align your takes yourself... time selection auto-punch is how I work.

[Dannii]

Sorry ED, I have to agree with inarisound on this one. The take splits are one of the few things that I don't like about REAPER. They are a pain to remove when you have more than a few takes and for whatever reason, they end up slightly different lengths.

Sure there are workarounds with time selection auto punch etc, but those are not always practical when in the middle of a recording session with a lot going on and much improvisation and experimentation.

[EvilDragon]

Rest assured I can see the benefits in not having splits, but I don't see this changing as it's pretty idiosyncratic to how Reaper is laid out internally that it's unlikely to ever change...

[Dannii]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Rest assured I can see the benefits in not having splits, but I don't see this changing as it's pretty idiosyncratic to how Reaper is laid out internally that it's unlikely to ever change...

Perhaps. Nevertheless, I'm just adding another voice to this squeaky wheel in the hopes that it might get some oil.

[karbomusic]

Tbh, I love the splits, they are very useful and don't really want it changed, and they aren't hard to deal with IMHO. There are some tricks to using them but I never seem to be able to get across their value. The biggest thing is to collapse the takes (there is no need to ever expand them!) then it's just a click or two or a single drag operation but I often don't "drag them out" because of their usefulness.

That includes large projects, multitrack/multitake drum edits and all that, not a problem.

[Dannii]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Tbh, I love the splits, they are very useful and don't really want it changed, and they aren't hard to deal with IMHO. There are some tricks to using them but I never seem to be able to get across their value. The biggest thing is to collapse the takes (there is no need to ever expand them!) then it's just a click or two or a single drag operation but I often don't "drag them out" because of their usefulness.

That includes large projects, multitrack/multitake drum edits and all that, not a problem.

Options, options, options. 741 or 5532?

Seriously though (not that I'm not serious about options), I like the description of how you work with takes. It isn't something I've yet tried. At the moment, I prefer to have all my takes stretched out vertically so I can see all the waveforms together but I am going to give your workflow a run and see how I gel with it.

Still though, for those who stick with the option of stretching out all takes for a clear view of all the waveforms, it WOULD be good, in my humble opinion, to have the OPTION of not having REAPER spilt uneven length takes.

TL/DR..... Squeak, squeak, squeak!!!!

[karbomusic]

I prefer to have all my takes stretched out vertically so I can see all the waveforms together

I get it (^that's where I came from too) and I only push this so much because I think it's that important and... we are dealing with the comfort of an old (outdated) paradigm being naturally held onto by all off us because seeing all the takes feels safe and is a concept we are used to.

Below is a real song, real tracks (of a 60 track project), the last near minute of the song is a floydish guitar solo, except I had never decided on what to play before tracking time arrived. So I just improved a bunch of takes with complete disregard of where various overdubs/takes started or ended (so I could build a comp). The result should be as sloppy as is possible with 35-45 random takes - I think most would agree working with the familiar looking result as shown below would make most of us want to jab ice picks in our eyes...



Below are those exact same takes collapsed and not seeing them all at once becomes irrelevant, they are they're, they aren't lost and I can audition, split, move, fade, compare any of them I want at any time. I know exactly which take is which by take number displayed and color.. And there are editing advantages and advantages dealing with splits that I can't really demo right now which adds to the benefit...



When I recorded and edited the above, they were *never* expanded, not even once, the only times they have been expanded is to reply to posts like these (honest). I imagine your bandwidth is limited, hence the pics but a video of me faux editing (building a comp) for demo purposes is below; beginning and ending with the way most people use takes with my method in the middle when collasped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP0c...ature=youtu.be

[serr]

Originally Posted by inarisound

If you have uneven recordings it will automatically split the take that is longer. And splitting keeps happening every single take that is uneven.

You need to understand that there is literally a feature doing this intentionally. You must still have the default recording mode selected that puts new takes into a SINGLE audio item. It splits all takes together because it is a single item. Some people want that. (I'm not one of them either but they're out there.)

Options: New recordings that overlap existing items > Create new items in separate lanes.

This is the mode to record new takes as separate items. 'Normal' in other words. Record something - it's a single item.

The suggestions for hiding/showing/collapsing tracks is all good stuff. I just usually shrink tracks down that I don't want to see a gazillion takes stacked up in.

[azslow3]

An idea from a Noob

May be someone can write a script with the following sequence:
1) "explode all takes to new tracks"
2) adjust each resulting item to the size of the lengthy item
3) glue all these items
4) "Implode items across tracks into takes"
5) replace original items with created item
6) delete all temporarily tracks

If you let me guess why that is not a bug and a bit hard to "fix" transparently:

unlike in other DAWs, takes in Reaper are inside single items. When a new "item" is recorded and considered to be a take for already existing item (since overlapping with it), to avoid extra split, it has to be auto-extended. But how far is should be allowed to extend?

Imagine you have recorded 10 min take. And then have decided to record another take for 10 seconds somewhere in the middle. Do you expect this new take is auto-extended up to 10min?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by azslow3

Do you expect this new take is auto-extended up to 10min?

Some do, but I don't but it is very easy to extend after the fact if one knows how to.

[serr]

Originally Posted by azslow3

An idea from a Noob

May be someone can write a script with the following sequence:
1) "explode all takes to new tracks"
2) adjust each resulting item to the size of the lengthy item
3) glue all these items
4) "Implode items across tracks into takes"
5) replace original items with created item
6) delete all temporarily tracks

If you let me guess why that is not a bug and a bit hard to "fix" transparently:

unlike in other DAWs, takes in Reaper are inside single items. When a new "item" is recorded and considered to be a take for already existing item (since overlapping with it), to avoid extra split, it has to be auto-extended. But how far is should be allowed to extend?

Imagine you have recorded 10 min take. And then have decided to record another take for 10 seconds somewhere in the middle. Do you expect this new take is auto-extended up to 10min?

Reaper being Reaper, you can convert between single and multiple take items like that. I'm thinking you would more want to set the recording option correctly for yourself than have to convert everything you record though. Reaper only puts multiple takes into single items when you tell it to.

Again, this isn't a bug. This is an additional recording mode that some people wanted. A bunch of people apparently since it is the default setting.

[inarisound]

Originally Posted by serr

You need to understand that there is literally a feature doing this intentionally. You must still have the default recording mode selected that puts new takes into a SINGLE audio item.

I think you never used this feature... or maybe I am using it incorrectly.

Anyway... If you read my original post I mentioned issues with that "feature" and how it's still unusable.

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In all seriousness guys... it's kind of odd we still don't have this feature fixed, or... as you say "create an option".

I have a huge issue with it cuz I have a lot of takes that are unequal and on top of that I always keep my fade in/out on automatic mode... so you can imagine what kind of mess it's causing.

I literally have to
1) Select and remove all created cuts
2) Drag item till it's end
3) Repeat the same for EACH LANE


Only then I can start comping like a "Human being with feelings".
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Now... I am not a snob and I am ready to learn new things... if someone have flawless workflow against this unexpected behavior I am all yours... show/write in details how you solve this issue.


I would much appreciate your input, tho I still think it's unbelievable we don't have this "option" by default.

[azslow3]

In threads you mention, there is one good point which is ignored: to change/fix something, there should be clear, implementable, consistent and not breaking something else concept how the system should do things after the change/fix.

Without such concept, any bug reports and feature requests normally have zero chance. Programmers can not fix a program if they do not understand what is broken nor can they implement feature they do not understand

[mlprod]

Originally Posted by serr

You need to understand that there is literally a feature doing this intentionally. You must still have the default recording mode selected that puts new takes into a SINGLE audio item. It splits all takes together because it is a single item. Some people want that. (I'm not one of them either but they're out there.)

Options: New recordings that overlap existing items > Create new items in separate lanes.

This is the mode to record new takes as separate items. 'Normal' in other words. Record something - it's a single item.

The suggestions for hiding/showing/collapsing tracks is all good stuff. I just usually shrink tracks down that I don't want to see a gazillion takes stacked up in.

Execpt this method is not equal to normal takes but without automatic splits, simple because all new items will be aubible, which means you have to mute/unmute stuff all the time.
What is requested (not a bug) is not possible right now, but should be an option!

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by mlprod

Execpt this method is not equal to normal takes but without automatic splits, simple because all new items will be aubible, which means you have to mute/unmute stuff all the time.

Not if you change item mix behavior in Project Settings!

[mlprod]

I am aware of those settings, still not the same as takes.

[azslow3]

Originally Posted by mlprod

Execpt this method is not equal to normal takes but without automatic splits, simple because all new items will be aubible, which means you have to mute/unmute stuff all the time.
What is requested (not a bug) is not possible right now, but should be an option!

That sounds like a good explanation why the option, if implemented, can be very confusing.

When new (short) item become a new take inside previous (longer) item, it also (naturally) become the active take. With automatic "splits", active take in parts of the original item before and after new take is not changed.
If there is an option to not split, new short item become active status for the whole length of existing item. Effectively promoting the silence outside new take as an active take.

[nofish]

Originally Posted by azslow3

That sounds like a good explanation why the option, if implemented, can be very confusing.

When new (short) item become a new take inside previous (longer) item, it also (naturally) become the active take. With automatic "splits", active take in parts of the original item before and after new take is not changed.
If there is an option to not split, new short item become active status for the whole length of existing item. Effectively promoting the silence outside new take as an active take.

Exactly, and what would a user have to do to hear the new short recording pass together with the previous one ? Split and select, what Reaper now does automatically. (unless also a new comping concept like e.g. swipe comping would be implemented.)

More seriously, that's exactly the point I'm wondering how the 'don't auto-split with takes' option should be implemented practically. So I'm with you here, seems like a implementation concept is needed...

[Fergler]

This is not a bug report, it should be an FR for a comping system (yknow where theres a bunch of sub-tracks that you highlight the good parts on and it puts it up in the main track as part of one continuous item).

Personally I use the take system as it is all the time and I don't find it bothersome.

As you can see, so do others. So it's part of how this software works. Learn it or if it frustrates you that much, do what all of us have done at some point and try out all the DAWs. I settled with Reaper, it doesn't have everything the way I want it but it checks more boxes than the others. If I had Mac, I think I'd be a Logic user.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by nofish

More seriously, that's exactly the point I'm wondering how the 'don't auto-split with takes' option should be implemented practically. So I'm with you here, seems a implementation concept is needed...

The basic functionality is already there since it's the same result you get when you do what I call "dragging out splits", which basically extends the short takes as if loop source is turned off...



^Pay very close attention to how several items with 2 or 3 takes now becomes 1 item with 4 takes. This could likely be scripted and if anyone ever took my never-ending advice to collapse takes, they'd already know this since the above is usually unknown and unrealized with expanded takes. Not you, those I keep preaching to.


*** Collapsed takes will set you free ***

[mlprod]

Originally Posted by Fergler

This is not a bug report, it should be an FR for a comping system (yknow where theres a bunch of sub-tracks that you highlight the good parts on and it puts it up in the main track as part of one continuous item).

Personally I use the take system as it is all the time and I don't find it bothersome.

As you can see, so do others. So it's part of how this software works. Learn it or if it frustrates you that much, do what all of us have done at some point and try out all the DAWs. I settled with Reaper, it doesn't have everything the way I want it but it checks more boxes than the others. If I had Mac, I think I'd be a Logic user.

Sure, this thread is in the wrong forum lika has been mentioned already. I do not agree with the last bit, basically you are saying that the FR forum is useless. This "feature" does not exist as of now, it is not scripted (if even possible) and the work arounds mean some sort of compromise/lack of speed. This IMHO makes it a "valid" FR, if you agree with it or not that is another story...