Old 01-18-2013, 01:06 AM   #1
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Posts: 52
Default Maybe a way to emulate master/slave volume envelopes?


I love Reaper's flexibility but sometimes it drives me crazy how complicated the simplest things can be:

Currently I'm trying to emulate master and slave volume envelopes the following way:

1. I create a master track and enable 'MIDI track controls' .
-> Assumption: The volume fader now controls CC 7.

2. Then I create sends to the slave tracks which I set to MIDI mode (the little MIDI jack icon in the send settings is green). I left the routing there at the default setting 'All => All' for the time being so things don't get even more complicated.
-> Assumption: If I move the fader of the master track now, it sends its CC 7 data to the slave tracks.

3. I set up an envelope for volume on the master track.
-> Assumption: This should control CC 7 as well and the data should then get sent to the slave tracks.

4. On the slave tracks I insert a VST effect with a volume parameter (like JS Utility Voume/Pan) and set its controller to CC 7.
-> I'm currently stuck here. If I could manage to assign CC 7 to the 'Volume' parameter of the plugin ('Learn' doesn't work -- is there really no way to assign a CC manually?) it should react to the envelope on the master track, shouldn't it?

In addition to the CC assignment problem -- am I making wrong assumptions somewhere else? Is this much simpler to accomplish and I'm just blind and/or stupid? I've been trying to get this to work for hours now, any help is greatly appreciated!



Sorry if this is solved already elsewhere, I searched for quite a while but couldn't find anything (is this problem that special?) in the forums.

Also I wasn't really shure whether this belongs in 'newbieland' or not, but I thought if this thread leads to a usable workaround for this IMO missing feature it's more of a 'How-To'? Feel free to move it if I'm wrong.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:30 AM   #2
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Posts: 1,371

"simplest things", ha?

I don't really know why you want to do it this way?

#1. When I tried to use both a track control for volume and an envelope there is a fight between these - since you normally have envelope in trim/read mode - master is envelope and what you try to do with fader will do nothing since it's reading the envelope.

#2. If you want to control volume both on a number of tracks and a master on top of these - I would:

a) create track folder for master
b) create children tracks that send their stuff to master/parent.

Then you can control volume as you like on children and get an overall master volume on folder track.

Maybe I just don't see what you want to accomplish.

It seems your thinking is to control everything by midi - but you could just as well do this with the audio parts. Soooo much simpler.

To get a snowball kind of effect with the CC7 going from one track to another, controlling still another - you really don't need that.

Think audio.
----- Windows 7 Pro x64, i7-860 2.8GHz 16G, RME HDSP 9632+Ai4S, Reaper 4.7 x64 -----
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:37 PM   #3
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 52

Hello Nip,

thank you for your reply.

'Simplest things' might have been a little misleading.

I meant that the master slave envelope stuff should be simple, but my project actually is a good deal more complex: the slave tracks are at the core of some quite extensive audio routing themselves (some of them get sent to 10 other tracks), so the audio data has to remain separate.

But you're right as well: I was getting a little too fixated on solving this with MIDI routing. Although I would have preferred it, it is apparently not the solution here.

After I could let this go and dug a little more in the forums I found some kind of CV/VCA hack:

1. Create a audio signal on the master track with constant volume (I used a 22100 Hz square at 0 dB)

2. Send that signal (post fader) to 2 extra channels on the slave tracks (those have 4 channels now, 2 for their actual audio and to for the CV signal receives)

3. For the 'Volume' plugin use parameter modulation by audio signal.

4. Now fader and envelope control the volume of the slave tracks.

It's an ok workaround, I thought I might as well post it here for future searches, but I'm still interested in alternatives that need less CPU -- like … er … MIDI? Anyone else any ideas?

(EDIT: typo)
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