'Why Wont'

OpIvy · 02-19-2018, 02:35 AM

Hello, I have a new song.....
https://soundcloud.com/opivy/why-wont

A few different mixing decisions made on this one but would love to know your impressions first. Any suggestions/ comments?

barrymk · 02-19-2018, 04:22 AM

A bit punky for my old ears but I really like the bass/guitars wall of sound you've built up here. You seem to have a lot of bottom end going on without creating mud. That's clever.

OpIvy · 02-19-2018, 07:11 PM

Yes! I did try to make a dirty bottom end without too much mud. The bass was a bit of a bitch to get right.

Grew up on a diet of punk rock so I guess there's a bit of that in all my tunes.

Thanks for listening....

OpIvy · 02-24-2018, 09:32 PM

Gonna give this one little bump and see if I get any more suggestions.
I'm really not sure how my mixing is these days....

barrymk · 02-25-2018, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpIvy

Gonna give this one little bump and see if I get any more suggestions.
I'm really not sure how my mixing is these days....

Not much comment? Could be it's pretty damn good and hard to criticise!

Coachz · 02-25-2018, 05:28 AM

To me it's unlistenable. The bass is so muddy it sounds like the bass I hear in a stadium when I'm outside getting a beer. Maybe it's designed for those annoying boom cars that pull up next to you at the light but I couldn't listen to it for more than 10 seconds and I'm no shrinking violet. I listen to cranked music a lot. Ozzy, Scorpions, Dio. No problem. Without the original tracks, I'm not sure what to recommend. It's like the bass just sustains and there are no notes.

It reminds of the time I saw ZZTop and I was about 10th row. Three guys on stage, bass, guitar and drums and I'm dead center. They had so much shit playing from tape I could not find the bass line the entire concert. Same here.

OpIvy · 02-26-2018, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

To me it's unlistenable. The bass is so muddy it sounds like the bass I hear in a stadium when I'm outside getting a beer. Maybe it's designed for those annoying boom cars that pull up next to you at the light but I couldn't listen to it for more than 10 seconds and I'm no shrinking violet. I listen to cranked music a lot. Ozzy, Scorpions, Dio. No problem. Without the original tracks, I'm not sure what to recommend. It's like the bass just sustains and there are no notes.

It reminds of the time I saw ZZTop and I was about 10th row. Three guys on stage, bass, guitar and drums and I'm dead center. They had so much shit playing from tape I could not find the bass line the entire concert. Same here.

Awesome, just the kind of feedback I was after (but also disappointing because I'd convinced myself it was sounding ok!).
I don't normally mix a bass this way so I did about 5 different things to it. I'm gonna go back and work out what I need to fix and perhaps use my more 'conventional' techniques
Cheers for the comments

barrymk · 02-26-2018, 03:52 PM

Different ears!!

Coachz · 02-26-2018, 04:53 PM

Here's a recording I did totally in Reaper for comparison :-) I will post it temporarily for your review.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DC...O4q2AY7zrG591y

karbomusic · 02-26-2018, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpIvy

I don't normally mix a bass this way so I did about 5 different things to it. I'm gonna go back and work out what I need to fix and perhaps use my more 'conventional' techniques

Just be sure of and intentional about what you *want* and do that. When I listen, it reminds me of this both musically, tonally and mood wise:

https://youtu.be/VbrfXDFuzu0?t=32

If that's the direction you were wanting, you are close. You need that low 30-50 Hz sub frequency stuff, little removed just above that. Or you could do what just did which is to use a tilt EQ with an added bump down low by exploiting an HPF, so you lose some mud but not the sub and rolling off anything lower. The bump could probably stand to be at 40 instead of 30, use them ears. I ended up there from starting with a tilt but could have as easily done it with one cut - but I like tilts.

I intentionally left it a little dark since it sounds like that's the mood it should present - likely better to just raise one of the brighter tracks to compensate like snare or OH or something, just depends.

OpIvy · 02-27-2018, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Just be sure of and intentional about what you *want* and do that. When I listen, it reminds me of this both musically, tonally and mood wise:

https://youtu.be/VbrfXDFuzu0?t=32

That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to do. Nice and warm, almost without the notes being too pronounced. But that's where the mud thing comes in....and why I usually give up on trying to get that sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

If that's the direction you were wanting, you are close. You need that low 30-50 Hz sub frequency stuff, little removed just above that. Or you could do what just did which is to use a tilt EQ with an added bump down low by exploiting an HPF, so you lose some mud but not the sub and rolling off anything lower. The bump could probably stand to be at 40 instead of 30, use them ears. I ended up there from starting with a tilt but could have as easily done it with one cut - but I like tilts.

I intentionally left it a little dark since it sounds like that's the mood it should present - likely better to just raise one of the brighter tracks to compensate like snare or OH or something, just depends.

Understand where you're coming from- I like this approach.
I've got some frequencies quite a bit higher up (60-80) and gently sloping down above that so that's probably giving me the problems. The kick on the other hand I wanted to give lots of bottom so I was trying to get the bass outta the way a bit.

Other issue is possibly Thrillseeker XTC on the master where I again boosted around 80-100 to get a beefier bottom end.
I'll strip it back and try as you suggested on the weekend and post it back up.
Thanks for the tips...

HugoRibeiroDotCom · 02-27-2018, 04:20 AM

Its like the 90s all over again... and thats great!

cheers

morgon · 03-05-2018, 03:38 PM

Im into saturated sounds like this anyway, cool tune, I can hear everything there except for a word or two, so it's a pretty good mix when my battered hearing can pick up all the voices, cheers.

OpIvy · 03-10-2018, 12:16 AM

So I tweaked the bass a little, trying to remove some of the mud.... following some tips from karbo.
It's still got quite a bit of those low freq's but seems to not be so boomy.
I hope it sounds better.

Dream Of Sleeping · 03-11-2018, 12:57 PM

I like the guitar parts. You create a really nice atmosphere. It kind of reminds me of early smashing pumpkins. I'm not keen on the vocal style. It sounds a bit bratty and childish compared to the sophisticaion of the music. But musically it is something I would listen too.

I do like a warm mix, and I'm guilty of maybe making my own mixes too warm, but mine sound bright compared to yours. I'm sure there is a way of getting more clarity without it sounding harsh. Maybe use In Rainbows by Radiohead as a reference.

Dream Of Sleeping · 03-11-2018, 01:01 PM

Actually maybe the mix is better than I thought. I just needed to turn it up.

Coachz · 03-11-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpIvy

So I tweaked the bass a little, trying to remove some of the mud.... following some tips from karbo.
It's still got quite a bit of those low freq's but seems to not be so boomy.
I hope it sounds better.

You like it boomy

karbomusic · 03-12-2018, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpIvy

So I tweaked the bass a little, trying to remove some of the mud.... following some tips from karbo.
It's still got quite a bit of those low freq's but seems to not be so boomy.
I hope it sounds better.

I was very subtle on my suggestions (only reduced the mud by 1.5dB because from mastering perspective that's a lot and if more is needed - possibly better taken care of at the track level), you can always pull it out more but based on the style you may want to keep some of the sub lows and pull the muddy region down a little more - really up to your ears tbh. Btw, I haven't listened yet, just commenting that I purposely left a little of it there.

OpIvy · 03-13-2018, 03:20 AM

hey thanks for the comments and listens...

I've almost overdid this song with the mixing....starting to get difficult if it's sounding better or worse.
I think the last mix is 'ok' but I seemed to have a lost a bit from the original mix that probably was a bit too boomy in the bass.
Might need to revisit this one again soon....

But again, appreciate the input

Coachz · 03-13-2018, 06:16 AM

what are your monitor speakers ?

Stella645 · 03-13-2018, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpIvy

hey thanks for the comments and listens...

I've almost overdid this song with the mixing....starting to get difficult if it's sounding better or worse.
I think the last mix is 'ok' but I seemed to have a lost a bit from the original mix that probably was a bit too boomy in the bass.

Still very boomy in the bass
Maybe this can help you see the problem area:

Here is your average frequency plot overlaid with a well balanced mix. (This is Weezer which I had to hand and thought maybe not a million miles away from this type of sound)
See how much higher you are from around 100Hz and down once the mids and highs are roughly aligned in level.

NB...not sure how well you can see in the embedded pic, but this link https://imgur.com/7FPD8XB and then clicking on the image will give a bigger view.

Now note that each digit on the scale is 10db and you start to see how much low needs to be trimmed away and controlled in your mix. The kick is the worst offender from what I'm hearing.

Now while it's not a good thing to rely on visuals for mixing if your monitoring or your room is not that great or you're just starting to lose perspective they can be very useful to recalibrate the mind!

OpIvy · 03-13-2018, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stella645

Still very boomy in the bass
Maybe this can help you see the problem area:

Here is your average frequency plot overlaid with a well balanced mix. (This is Weezer which I had to hand and thought maybe not a million miles away from this type of sound)
See how much higher you are from around 100Hz and down once the mids and highs are roughly aligned in level.

NB...not sure how well you can see in the embedded pic, but this link https://imgur.com/7FPD8XB and then clicking on the image will give a bigger view.

Now note that each digit on the scale is 10db and you start to see how much low needs to be trimmed away and controlled in your mix. The kick is the worst offender from what I'm hearing.

Now while it's not a good thing to rely on visuals for mixing if your monitoring or your room is not that great or you're just starting to lose perspective they can be very useful to recalibrate the mind!

Hey, that's nice. Interesting to see it graphed and it does show alot in the low end. I was using span plugin but it didn't seem to show as much at 100hz.

Looks like I will revisit this one over the weekend because you may be right....the kick possibly need some more attention. Although I thought I nailed the kick this time!

I will do a bit more eq'ing and see how it sounds.
Unfortunately I'm stuck mostly monitoring on headphones but use a few other sound systems to see how mixes translate. I was certainly aware that there's heaps of bass in this track....and that's what I was going for. Just gotta get it tightened/ cleaned up.
Thanks for the help...

soundchaser59 · 03-17-2018, 03:34 PM

As of right now I like what you have posted. I don't hear any mud or boomy, I can hear all the parts.

My only impression is that it sounds unmastered.

OpIvy · 03-17-2018, 09:31 PM

Tightened things up a bit a tthe bottom end and some other subtle changes...
This might be done https://soundcloud.com/opivy/why-wont

Not_Here · 03-17-2018, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpIvy

Tightened things up a bit a tthe bottom end and some other subtle changes...
This might be done https://soundcloud.com/opivy/why-wont

Just had my 1st listen... damn man! nice groove... smooth..
I'll be jamming this down some California roads on the way to work, I'll be sure and turn it up as I roll past the skaters too, oh and the old cranky people at the stop lights, and maybe that babe in the Tesla too.

\m/ ΘçΘ \m/