Old 02-23-2016, 07:30 AM   #401
krahosk
Human being with feelings
 
krahosk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
Rhythm slashes

These


And these

+1 and with chords! :-)
krahosk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 08:01 AM   #402
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 19,658
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
Rhythm slashes

These


And these


YESYESYESYESYES Y E S!!!!! Essential IMO

In my dreams we could also have the staircase symbol and diamonds?
(for the Nashville numbers system)
__________________
"What a dick comment. I'm gonna make sure to avoid your name." Dicks other than Trump can speak????
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 09:42 AM   #403
kerryg
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel88v8 View Post
Guitar tab would be great

I hope you get your wish eventually. But traditional notation is a language spoken by virtually all western instruments - eg a flautist can write music a guitarist can understand and play - whereas tabulature is solely a means for guitarists to speak to guitarists (ok, a handful of other fretted instruments too). Although a good score editor would be a good startiing point for development of a tab editor, in point of fact tab isn't strictly speaking a musical language but a graphic gestural language, in that the symbols don't describe sounds but finger positions - tuning to eg DADGAD radically changes the notes produced - so I'd imagine it'd probably best be handled with it's own FR and thread. Just my $.02.

Last edited by kerryg; 02-23-2016 at 09:50 AM.
kerryg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 10:10 AM   #404
memyselfandus
Human being with feelings
 
memyselfandus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
Single line percussion or staff line PLEASE



With rhythm slash option too

For rhythms!



A list of rudiments to paste in would be fantastic!

Here is one example


http://vicfirth.com/five-stroke-roll-2/

More info
http://www.freedrumlessons.com/drum-...-rudiments.php





Single Stroke Rudiments
Single Stroke Roll
Single Stroke Four
Single Stroke Seven
Drum Roll Rudiments
Multiple Bounce Roll
Double Stroke Roll
Triple Stroke Roll
Five Stroke Roll
Six Stroke Roll
Seven Stroke Roll
Nine Stroke Roll
Ten Stroke Roll
Eleven Stroke Roll
Thirteen Stroke Roll
Fifteen Stroke Roll
Seventeen Stroke Roll
Flam-Based Rudiments
Flam
Flam Tap
Flam Accent
Flamacue
Flam Paradiddle
Single Flammed Mill
Flam Paradiddle-diddle
Swiss Army Triplet
Inverted Flam Tap
Flam Drag
Pataflafla
Paradiddle Rudiments
Single Paradiddle
Double Paradiddle
Triple Paradiddle
Single Paradiddle-diddle
Drag-Based Rudiments
Drag Ruff
Single Drag Tap
Double Drag Tap
Lesson 25
Single Dragadiddle
Dragadiddle #1
Dragadiddle #2
memyselfandus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 10:11 AM   #405
memyselfandus
Human being with feelings
 
memyselfandus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Rhythm slashes

These


And these


YESYESYESYESYES Y E S!!!!! Essential IMO

In my dreams we could also have the staircase symbol and diamonds?
(for the Nashville numbers system)
Agreed guys!
memyselfandus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 10:38 AM   #406
kerryg
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 328
Default

Tab is a bigger problem than some may realize. Take getting from that score to that line of tab: how does the tab editor know you want that first note played on G string second fret as opposed to D string seventh fret or A string 12th fret? What about when you're in DADGAD tuning?

It's do-able, but it's non-trivial to do something useful (unless you're content with an editor that produces completely bogus tab). You'll need an addressable translation layer between the midi and the display before you can generate anything useful.
kerryg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 11:21 AM   #407
reddiesel41264
Human being with feelings
 
reddiesel41264's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North East UK
Posts: 492
Default

Well if we're going to have percussion and tab I'm sure you'll all agree that, for completeness, it is essential to include Benesh movement notation.


__________________
http://librewave.com - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
http://xtant-audio.com/ - Purveyor of fine sample libraries (and Kontakt scripting tutorials)
reddiesel41264 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 01:16 PM   #408
memyselfandus
Human being with feelings
 
memyselfandus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryg View Post
Tab is a bigger problem than some may realize. Take getting from that score to that line of tab: how does the tab editor know you want that first note played on G string second fret as opposed to D string seventh fret or A string 12th fret? What about when you're in DADGAD tuning?

It's do-able, but it's non-trivial to do something useful (unless you're content with an editor that produces completely bogus tab). You'll need an addressable translation layer between the midi and the display before you can generate anything useful.



Reverse the process then. I would have the input directly from the tab. The notation will know where to put it.
memyselfandus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 01:33 PM   #409
kerryg
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
Reverse the process then. I would have the input directly from the tab. The notation will know where to put it.
I'm not a coder myself but at a glance this does seem a lot more feasible (assuming standard tuning). Let's get a solid notation editor happening first, everything will depend on that.
kerryg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 01:37 PM   #410
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 19,658
Default

Never have got on with Tab since I started with traditional notation and transcribing it rather than V/V
__________________
"What a dick comment. I'm gonna make sure to avoid your name." Dicks other than Trump can speak????
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 03:10 PM   #411
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

I used GuitarPro quite a bit. Since MuseScore has added its TAB (v2) I use that exclusively, it's a really elegantly simple solution. I can do Ukulele, mandolin or alt tuned guitar tab more easily than with GP.

This is only for beginner/intermediate teaching material, or simplified scores though, for high levels of detail and advanced articulation Guitar Pro is the best.

As kerry said, get the basic notation right first. (Which I think must include percussion)

Articulation linking <=> two way between MIDI data (CC and/or Keyswitch) and Notation is going to be a way more important, and needs to be up and running before releasing this to the great unwashed.

If that can't be done then remove all articulations and dynamics markings before release. My 2 cents, having worked with the class of musician who only understand 'dots' and are incapable of learning the most elementary aspects of computing, digital audio and acoustics.

Last edited by hamish; 02-23-2016 at 06:56 PM.
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 03:18 PM   #412
LCipher
Human being with feelings
 
LCipher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,971
Default

stupid question - but how do I select a specific accidental sharp/flat contrary to the right click 'accidental + default sharp/flat' ??
LCipher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 04:40 PM   #413
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 10,582
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCipher View Post
stupid question - but how do I select a specific accidental sharp/flat contrary to the right click 'accidental + default sharp/flat' ??
If that menu only shows one option, it should mean that the non-default accidental won't work in the specific key signature. Are you seeing only one option in a situation where the non-default should work?
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 05:09 PM   #414
LCipher
Human being with feelings
 
LCipher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,971
Default

I don't have any "key" selected - but not sure that matters. I'm wanting to select the enharmonic equivalent not constrained by key.

So be able to chose G# or Ab for example.

For example the D7 chord seeing F# makes more sense, but in the Abm7 the flats do.





I can see that would be problematic if the data is just coming from midi w/o any other data to indicate the choice. It's more of a choice based on the appropriateness of the note for the score.
Attached Images
File Type: png music_sharpsflats.png (37.7 KB, 785 views)

Last edited by LCipher; 02-23-2016 at 05:17 PM. Reason: updated
LCipher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 05:42 PM   #415
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 10,582
Default

Do you mean this? Or something different?




.. or maybe you mean, how to convert an F natural into an F sharp. Just drag it up with the mouse (with the "key" checkbox disabled, or using the mouse modifier "move note vertically ignoring key" (shift+ctrl+alt by default)), or use an action like "Edit: move note up one semitone" (ctrl+uparrow by default).
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 06:06 PM   #416
LCipher
Human being with feelings
 
LCipher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Do you mean this? Or something different?
Yes! How'd you do that? I don't have that in b8 - must not have the latest version beta...

downloaded 9beta = yes

Last edited by LCipher; 02-23-2016 at 06:14 PM. Reason: updated
LCipher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 06:12 PM   #417
LCipher
Human being with feelings
 
LCipher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,971
Default

I think I see - I was clicking on a note w/o a accidental and expecting to enter (select) the sharp/flat. But how it works is if you HAVE a sharp you can change it to a flat (or the other way around).

Works great - user error.

Its a mindset from a score program like muscore where you enter the notes, then select (add) the #/b vs the more graphical (better, less mousing) REAPER way.

Last edited by LCipher; 02-23-2016 at 06:19 PM.
LCipher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 11:39 AM   #418
Iu.Gob
Human being with feelings
 
Iu.Gob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: España
Posts: 97
Default

Action: Hide/Show note or rest. Option: Show/Hide hidden
I think it would be very useful and help clean up the score. . Thanks!
Iu.Gob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 01:56 PM   #419
hve
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: France (but I come from Belgium)
Posts: 260
Default

Please don't get me wrong, I really love all the efforts put into the new notation view, but for some reason I find it hard to use. I would really prefer Reaper displayed less details, especially the 32th rests and collisions when you open the notations view make things a bit complex.
hve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 02:14 PM   #420
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 10,582
Default

The next build should have some improvements with respect to display quantization, to prevent showing short rests, and also a somewhat wider aspect ratio by default. Note that you can change the aspect ratio (how wide each measure is, relative to how tall it is) via control+mousewheel by default, the same action that vertically zooms elsewhere.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 02:16 PM   #421
memyselfandus
Human being with feelings
 
memyselfandus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
Default

I think it's looking GREAT already!
memyselfandus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 02:49 PM   #422
reddiesel41264
Human being with feelings
 
reddiesel41264's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North East UK
Posts: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
I think it's looking GREAT already!
Ditto. It's almost certainly going to be the best notation editor in any DAW - it's pretty close already. The fact that most DAW developers focus only on mouse entry and neglect keyboard input while Reaper provides a fantastic amount of control via both puts it ahead of the competition and makes it very close to a score-writer within a DAW.
__________________
http://librewave.com - Freedom respecting instruments and effects
http://xtant-audio.com/ - Purveyor of fine sample libraries (and Kontakt scripting tutorials)
reddiesel41264 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 03:01 PM   #423
memyselfandus
Human being with feelings
 
memyselfandus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
Default

Agreed
memyselfandus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 04:52 PM   #424
memyselfandus
Human being with feelings
 
memyselfandus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
Default

Sibelius note assignment for GM Drums
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (30.4 KB, 214 views)
memyselfandus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 05:59 PM   #425
kerryg
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
Sibelius note assignment for GM Drums
Thanks - that could be a problematic reference from the viewpoint of stem direction because it uses the regular-notation-based convention of "stems up above middle-line B"; in drum set notation, notes played with the hands normally go stems up, and those played with the foot, stems down.
kerryg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 06:15 PM   #426
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default Keysig formatting improved in pre9

Thanks, keysigs look a lot nicer now.

520 pre8



520 pre9

hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 06:22 PM   #427
kerryg
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 328
Default

Is it time for a dedicated percussion notation thread yet to collect up all the info into one place?
kerryg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 07:08 PM   #428
juliansader
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianfini View Post
Hi devs, just a comment from my side. looking at all notation rendering from Reaper and comparing it to Finale, Muse 2.0, and others in general the "note" font seems to be a bit more inelegant in REaper. Specifically I found one main difference: the STEM of the notes is a bit too thick if compared to the others that show a much thinner line.

I understand you may file this comment as "minor" but it all goes about readibility which eventually is the final and most important reason to produce notation, isn't it?

g
+1
I think the notes will look prettier if the horizontal beams are noticeably thicker than the stems.
juliansader is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 07:17 PM   #429
kerryg
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
+1
I think the notes will look prettier if the horizontal beams are noticeably thicker than the stems.
I kind of like that idea, that's how I draw them myself.
kerryg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 01:46 AM   #430
hve
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: France (but I come from Belgium)
Posts: 260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
The next build should have some improvements with respect to display quantization, to prevent showing short rests, and also a somewhat wider aspect ratio by default. Note that you can change the aspect ratio (how wide each measure is, relative to how tall it is) via control+mousewheel by default, the same action that vertically zooms elsewhere.
Thanks Schwa, will try that tip, really would love to get deeper into it, maybe I'm just a little too used to other editors for now, anyway, thanks for all the efforts!
hve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 01:50 AM   #431
hve
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: France (but I come from Belgium)
Posts: 260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddiesel41264 View Post
Ditto. It's almost certainly going to be the best notation editor in any DAW - it's pretty close already. The fact that most DAW developers focus only on mouse entry and neglect keyboard input while Reaper provides a fantastic amount of control via both puts it ahead of the competition and makes it very close to a score-writer within a DAW.
Well, it's certainly a great leep for a first release, but for me I'll need to get used to it a little more.

Is there a possibility to have the same (or close) toolbars like in other editors (Cubase and Sibelius)? I remember Schwa saying this is possible, but why not making some general basic ones already for the first release ? Or at least the most used, I'm sure people who are used to other editors might not know from the beginning how to make their own ones, and even if I used Reaper since a few years, I feel limited to that aspect too. thanks

Last edited by hve; 02-25-2016 at 02:06 AM.
hve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 02:05 AM   #432
timothys_monster
Human being with feelings
 
timothys_monster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 887
Default

Question about the natural symbol:

I'm in C major here. Why are there natural symbols at the beginning of the bar? A new bar should always start with the accidentals defined by the key signature, shouldn't it?

timothys_monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 02:42 AM   #433
hve
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: France (but I come from Belgium)
Posts: 260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddiesel41264 View Post
Ditto. It's almost certainly going to be the best notation editor in any DAW - it's pretty close already. The fact that most DAW developers focus only on mouse entry and neglect keyboard input while Reaper provides a fantastic amount of control via both puts it ahead of the competition and makes it very close to a score-writer within a DAW.
I just wish it was more intuitive, for now I'm a bit lost without any toolbars, tried to follow since the beginning, but for some reason am missing some features.
hve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:09 AM   #434
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 23,945
Default

Yeah it would be awesome to have a specific toolbar context for notation editor view (just like we have one for the Event List). Perhaps even multiple toolbars for notation editor, so we can swap between them depending on what we want to work with.
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:14 AM   #435
hve
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: France (but I come from Belgium)
Posts: 260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yeah it would be awesome to have a specific toolbar context for notation editor view (just like we have one for the Event List). Perhaps even multiple toolbars for notation editor, so we can swap between them depending on what we want to work with.
Yes that would be great and would help people coming from other editors too, right now it's a bit like a goldmine without an easy access

Last edited by hve; 02-25-2016 at 04:31 AM.
hve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:32 AM   #436
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 10,582
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timothys_monster View Post
Question about the natural symbol:

I'm in C major here. Why are there natural symbols at the beginning of the bar? A new bar should always start with the accidentals defined by the key signature, shouldn't it?
Yes, that's not right. I can't reproduce it though, can you provide steps to do so?
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 07:18 AM   #437
Xasman
Human being with feelings
 
Xasman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 306
Default Bug?

This seems like a bug (v5.20 pre10). Steps to reproduce:

1. Create something like this:



All notes are automatically assigned to their default clef, but we want one of the duplicated notes (middle C) to move to the treble clef in place of its' default position in the bass clef, so:

2. Right-click on a duplicated middle C and select Clef>Treble. The note is correctly reassigned to the treble clef thus:



BUT...

3. Close the Notation/MIDI editor and then reopen it.

4. The same note has returned to its' original default assigned position in the bass clef!
Attached Images
File Type: png note-to-clef assignment bug img1.PNG (6.2 KB, 505 views)
File Type: png note-to-clef assignment bug img2.PNG (5.8 KB, 553 views)
Xasman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 07:34 AM   #438
Xasman
Human being with feelings
 
Xasman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 306
Default Accidentals collision in chords

(5.20 pre10) Accidentals collide when notating chords with multiple accidentals, making them unreadable. Example:



Schwa, you may of course already be aware of this, but Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars" is an excellent reference for this kind of thing. I know the MuseScore developers use it as their main reference for notation conventions. In particular, pages 87-91 discuss conventions for accidental placement in chords of various configurations.
Attached Images
File Type: png accidentals collision in chords.PNG (3.1 KB, 578 views)
Xasman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 08:01 AM   #439
peter5992
Human being with feelings
 
peter5992's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 9,862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xasman View Post

Schwa, you may of course already be aware of this, but Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars" is an excellent reference for this kind of thing. I know the MuseScore developers use it as their main reference for notation conventions. In particular, pages 87-91 discuss conventions for accidental placement in chords of various configurations.
+1

Elaine Gould's book is the gold standard (no pun intended) for engraving and notation; the best and most comprehensive book in its field by a long stretch.
peter5992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 09:43 AM   #440
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,981
Default

is it going to be too much to ask to have a print command from the piano roll in notation view? lol
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.