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08-28-2008, 07:45 AM
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#81
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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This is called the I/O window, shouldn't there be a place to assign hardware inputs of the track? This was my first big 'Huuuh??? with Reaper, almost forgot that...
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08-28-2008, 08:01 AM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
This is called the I/O window, shouldn't there be a place to assign hardware inputs of the track? This was my first big 'Huuuh??? with Reaper, almost forgot that...
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I totally agree with that man.
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08-28-2008, 08:13 AM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Good point indeed. :P
Brice, wanna add that ?
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08-28-2008, 09:32 AM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,403
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I wonder if the mock-up should be done useing the default theme? I dunno, but I am thinking that is what the Devs are using mostly...
:?
.t
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08-28-2008, 10:15 AM
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#85
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: france
Posts: 354
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There's a "hardware" tab ...
you should all have your eyes checked
Tallisman default theme or not doesn't matter, it's just cosmetic, it's about placement, not gfx.
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08-28-2008, 11:23 AM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brice
There's a "hardware" tab ...
you should all have your eyes checked
Tallisman default theme or not doesn't matter, it's just cosmetic, it's about placement, not gfx.
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Brice...a hardware in tab, not the out.
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08-28-2008, 11:32 AM
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#87
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: swing on the spiral of our divinity
Posts: 2,242
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Has Justin offered anything towards this idea? ie: Yay, or nay ?
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08-28-2008, 01:29 PM
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#88
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: france
Posts: 354
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oh, right, input, well ...
but since you really seem to want it to show I might add an extra tab (or extend current track)
and use that extra space for the "Master/Parent Send" and "Track Channels" as well
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08-28-2008, 01:49 PM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 46°31'20.67"N - 6°37'6.47"E
Posts: 803
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great job
wow, you guys are doing a great job !
++1
one of my first "uuuhs" with Reaper was also because track I/O routing is not displayed at the bottom of the track (à la PT or DP or ... almost everything else ;-)
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08-29-2008, 04:17 AM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 77
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+1 Thats one mighty fine GUI for sends and receives.
p.s: multiple sends/receives that would span over the screenwidth will scroll, right?
__________________
I could explain it to you, but your brain would explode
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01-19-2009, 11:37 PM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman
I believe that any tweaking of this window needs to incorporate a drop-down menu for all
configured sends and receives, such that we can quickly re-assign a send/receive without
losing the configuration settings.
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I find that window ugly too (especially how the theme doesn't extend into fully into any of these pop-up windows on OS X), but functionality is the key, and Tallisman nailed it. I just opened this thread because I was hoping for this exact feature. (I just spent an afternoon trying to quickly audition different different verb-busses. ugh)
I am a real slut for pretty graphics, but threads like these make me wonder if devs get scared off of or just don't see some really good, simple ideas, because they are buried in FRs for GUI mods. Making the GUI mods would certainly take a lot more time than simply making the send/receives a drop down. Of course I want both, but if we were forced to vote for sexy vertical sends or Tallisman's very unsexy added drop-downs, which would we choose? Which would fundamentally change the way we work?
Having this window show up in a second (vertical?) docker would be another game-changer. Unfortunately Brice's great mock-up of this got lost in the justifiable admiration of the theme he was using for the mock-up.
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01-20-2009, 09:58 AM
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#92
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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I'm liking it. Meters under the fader are a great space-saving idea, though you would run into trouble if the meter's peak is right under the fader itself.
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05-14-2009, 05:30 AM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Great work guys.
Brice's mockup looks awesme, just a little congested. Would like more space and margins myself.
There's one thing I am missing from the IO window right now, the ability to re-assign a send. And even better when you can quickly reassign a send to adjacent tracks. Like you would in a drop-down box with the mouse wheel. Tallisman already mentioned it and this is my FR too, functionality wise.
Now I like the mixer-like designs but they have one drawback, just like the mixer: I sometimes want to see longer track names. Especially if you use a larger bolder font as I like, the names are short.
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05-14-2009, 07:49 AM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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The designs look good, but in retrospect they're very much not part of the current theme.
Consistency is a key thing, and most of our mockups were very busy looking and cramped IMHO.
Perhaps Sir White Tie has an idea on how to redesign the I/O section ?
Let's hear all ideas.
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05-14-2009, 08:07 AM
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#95
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brice
sure, having it not themable would be a huge step backwards.
this is just based on my wip theme.
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Hey Brice, where can I get your wip theme?
I checked out your threads on redoing the UI. You have some good ideas. I hope Cockos takes notice of the things you are proposing.
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05-14-2009, 01:39 PM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Here's a design that uses the existing 3.0 theme elements and introduces a few small additional elements.
Backup location for the image: http://img65.**************/img65/792...medesign06.png
Except for the Midi Hardware Output section, I used the item_bg.png of the default theme for the backgrounds. I guess the graphics designers can do much better here. Faders, fader backgrounds and buttons all come from the TCP graphics. The send volume markings were hand-placed. That way everybody knows this is the volume fader. The layout also matches part of the TCP, so no 'This is the volume' text is necessary.
The areas where people can open a dropdown menu is marked with a symbol that you can view up close here. The symbol in the 'Add' dropdown boxes is the large one. The one depiced in the picture I linked just now, is in fact 75% of its size, and is used in all other dropdown boxes.
One font is used in the entire design, namely Tahoma 8 point. The non-bolded text has a tracking(distance of letters to one another) value of 80. This was done in Xara4.
There is one piece of functionality that I added, which is the dropdown box in the Send name. A lot of people want ot change the target of the send quickly and keeping the existing settings.
I'm running the Royale Noir Windows theme btw, which accounts for the dark windows borders. This make a difference I find.
Last edited by airon; 05-14-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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05-14-2009, 01:46 PM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hungary
Posts: 3,129
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very very nice, airon!
especially the dropdown menu items. i'd be totally happy with this concept all over in Reaper.
+110110101
__________________
panda in the desert
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05-14-2009, 01:51 PM
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#98
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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airon I'm with you too on that one: it's clear, brilliant and very readable
+1 to your idea
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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05-14-2009, 02:36 PM
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#99
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Great. Although I am hooked with the vertical mixer design. I like this one too.
Thoughts and suggestions for airon's design (some also applies to reaper's design as well)..
- The Master send gets a checkbox, other sends get a M (mute) button for the same functionality (?). Maybe provide the M (mute) and X (for close/delete) on the top-right part of each strip, next to the title. They will be in a more obvious and relevant space I think. I do not like a button with the word 'delete' in that context.
- Isn't the track channels independent of the Master/Parent send? If so, shouldn't it be in a separate container for clarity?
- I don't like the contrast of the bright slices vs the dark background, especially since the right-mid-bottom half is all dark empty space.
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05-14-2009, 03:06 PM
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#100
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
airon I'm with you too on that one: it's clear, brilliant and very readable
+1 to your idea
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Let me quote you, huh?
__________________
Reaper registered user - proudly, may I add :)
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05-14-2009, 05:40 PM
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#101
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Maybe a little bit off-topic here but wouldn't it be nice to have separate checkboxes for Master/Parent Send? I mean, one for Master and one for Parent. With this, those users asking for "Folders used as Folders only not audio receivers" could be satisfied (I'm not one of them, I like how it is now but options make people with different visions happy)
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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05-14-2009, 05:58 PM
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#102
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Maybe a little bit off-topic here but wouldn't it be nice to have separate checkboxes for Master/Parent Send? I mean, one for Master and one for Parent. With this, those users asking for "Folders used as Folders only not audio receivers" could be satisfied (I'm not one of them, I like how it is now but options make people with different visions happy)
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separate checkboxes for master/parent send would definitely be useful.
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05-14-2009, 06:23 PM
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#103
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
Great. Although I am hooked with the vertical mixer design. I like this one too.
Thoughts and suggestions for airon's design (some also applies to reaper's design as well)..
- The Master send gets a checkbox, other sends get a M (mute) button for the same functionality (?). Maybe provide the M (mute) and X (for close/delete) on the top-right part of each strip, next to the title. They will be in a more obvious and relevant space I think. I do not like a button with the word 'delete' in that context.
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Ah, that is completley on purpose.
Only things that can be automated get a button. The checkbox 'Master/Parent Send' is a switch that cannot be automated, unlike the tracks Mute or any Send mute.
The delete button was placed in the middle and given its colour because the user is unlikely to click in to that area by mistake. Delete does exactly what it says and I went through some alternatives, with X buttons, different placements, and this one worked out the best way.
Naturally, if you like, I can post the source file and you can try it yourself.
Quote:
- Isn't the track channels independent of the Master/Parent send? If so, shouldn't it be in a separate container for clarity?
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Oh I thought this is the perfect spot for it, as it worked rather well in the current design of Reapers I/O window. No other send/receive has it or needs it. I think it might clutter up the window if I made yet another seperate area for one switch. The Midi Hardware Output area is already something of an embarrasment .
Quote:
- I don't like the contrast of the bright slices vs the dark background, especially since the right-mid-bottom half is all dark empty space.
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That dark colour is a theme choice after all it seems. I'm not sure which, but you can change it most probably. The question will then be whether the colour works with the rest of the theme.
Last edited by airon; 05-14-2009 at 07:34 PM.
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05-14-2009, 07:32 PM
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#104
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Some more ideas, including some of the suggestions stated here. Also, an Input panel, where everyone can happily set up their input settings. It contains quite a few suggestions from other threads, such as being able to record both midi and audio at the same time, so it is quite adventerous.
In the top-most output panel, the pan area has that much space not just because it's easier to read this way, but because sooner or later a surround panner may be placed here, and that requires some space.
The Xara source file can be inspected and mangled here: https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/158916/...youtChange.zip
=edit=
Added another idea of ours, namely recording from the non-hardware inputs of the track, i.e. everything that is routed to it and not coming directly from hardware inputs, whether it's midi or audio.
Picking this recording source thus blanks out the audio and midi hardware input selectors.
Last edited by airon; 05-14-2009 at 07:43 PM.
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05-14-2009, 08:29 PM
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#105
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,091
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+1 Lawrence. Maybe also have every other even pair highlighted ex. 1/2 3/4 5/6 to make it easier to see and pick on on the fly...
~Rob.
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05-14-2009, 10:03 PM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
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This is pretty damn good.
If we're reorganizing things. though, why not put them in the usual order of Input-on-the-left:
Inputs | Outputs
Receives | Sends
To the person above who suggested separating the Master/Parent and Track Channel boxes... where they are now makes perfect sense to me. That container is essentially that track's master track.
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05-16-2009, 05:07 PM
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#107
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
This is pretty damn good.
If we're reorganizing things. though, why not put them in the usual order of Input-on-the-left:
Inputs | Outputs
Receives | Sends
To the person above who suggested separating the Master/Parent and Track Channel boxes... where they are now makes perfect sense to me. That container is essentially that track's master track.
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Lokasenna has the gospel! +1 on all the above!
__________________
Reaper registered user - proudly, may I add :)
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05-16-2009, 06:15 PM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Good point. To compare, here is a version with the Input on the left and output on the right.
In fact, I'm trying out a new background for the heading of those two sections. I've added a receive as well, just to see what a busier I/O window might look like.
The recording source now features "Routed Tracks" instead of having the "Record: Non-hardware input". I figure the complexity in the Record: section is big enough, and I expect to configure what input I choose in the Audio and Midi Input sections.
The idea behind the second shots column header backgrounds being curved and identical is to establish the colouring a little more for the user. Anyone have a better idea for those header shapes ?
Last edited by airon; 05-16-2009 at 06:23 PM.
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05-16-2009, 08:33 PM
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#109
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
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I think the first one is better. I can see nothing else better than those triangles. But I'm always in the mood to be proven wrong
__________________
Reaper registered user - proudly, may I add :)
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05-17-2009, 06:59 AM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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My thoughts...
the Input and Output columns/components should have different tints (or a separation from some sort). Eyes tend to scan through in a horizontal fashion but this panel depicts to separate vertical sections.
It's looking great by the way.
FR regarding MIDI devices and channels.
I wanted to have more advanced customizations like assigning MIDI device X and MIDI device Y to control a single track (without complicating things with multiple tracks + sends).
To allow this kind of advanced configurations, there needs to be a way to add checkboxes to devices + channels, instead of the current select-only-one-entry menu. Similar to how the 'events filter' works for the MIDI editor, with multiple channel selection.
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05-17-2009, 08:10 AM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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I have little to no idea how that could work Evan.
Meanwhile here's another visual update:
Last edited by airon; 05-17-2009 at 08:18 AM.
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05-17-2009, 11:25 AM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Here's what I mean by column tinting (rough example)... Input and output section is visually more separated.
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05-17-2009, 06:03 PM
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#113
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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I find all that colouring to be a bit overwhelming. The highlights I used before are now drowned out.
Perhaps you can make a general tinting of the sides work with a different scheme to present the send/receive targets/sources.
Here's the source to the current design (Xara file). Give it a shot. https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/160315/...ign-3.x_12.zip
I don't think we can have a tint and those other colour highlights, so this may boil down to a choice of either highlighting the send/receive targets/sources or the entire sends. Or an altered or new design.
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05-17-2009, 07:39 PM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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When the rest of the theme is fairly one-color, I think it'd be weird to throw another one in. The inverted colors black/green on one side looks really nice though.
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05-19-2009, 03:15 PM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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At the suggestion of Evan, here's the next version of this I/O window. Larger send/receive label text and clickable dropdown area, centred.
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05-19-2009, 08:55 PM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: at home, mostly
Posts: 654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Here is an incarnation with full-size mixer strips:
The receives were not included this time, but they would appear when there are some.
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yes, vertical, this would be IT ... +100000
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regards,
nico herz
BIGTONEsounddesign
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05-19-2009, 10:08 PM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
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Their have been lots or great ideas in this thread.
I have to say though that I don't think vertical really makes sense for sends. The Aux sends on any mixer are all on top of each other, not side by side. We don't need any metering here at all. If it were up to me I'd get rid of all the faders in this window for sends and just use knobs, something like the sends (when shown) on the MCP.
Receives are a little different. A little mixer set up with vertical faders would make sense - for midi or/and audio.
So maybe something similar to what we have now with the sends stacked on top of each other, but with a collapseable receives mixer that could pop in and out of the side.
So I'll give a +1 for keeping horizontal faders
and a +1 for vertical faders
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05-23-2009, 05:41 AM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Another thought I had, not directly related to the I/O panel, but derived from it...
Take the Send strip, add
- easily reconfigurable destination
- an additional passthru-level control
and turn it into a Reaper plugin that you can insert in the fx chain.
Sends from anywhere in the fx chain.
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11-12-2010, 03:07 PM
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#119
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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the vertical idea is great, imo. i think the routing window would be easier on the eyes if the channels looked like the track control panel/mixer. i have no problem looking at those and knowing where i am right away, which isn't the case with the routing window.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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11-12-2010, 04:33 PM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Thanks for bumping this. I think this is a great idea, all of the vertical mockups I've seen so far would be a great improvement over the current fugly and unwieldy window. +1. Something to think about for 4 if there are any other visual improvements planned.
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