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Old 07-20-2021, 07:51 AM   #14401
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Thanks! If you have some better basic example zones for the Track FX/Send/Receive slot navigators, I'd be happy to update with those examples.
What you have is fine Mine aren't any more complicated than that and besides simpler is better as far as explaing the Action goes.

Regarding the FXSlotNavigator, maybe point out that the FXSlotBank currently maps the FX as well as changing the slot. The GoFXSlot line is redundant (currently)

Might cut down on the number of queries
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Old 07-20-2021, 09:02 AM   #14402
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What you have is fine Mine aren't any more complicated than that and besides simpler is better as far as explaing the Action goes.

Regarding the FXSlotNavigator, maybe point out that the FXSlotBank currently maps the FX as well as changing the slot. The GoFXSlot line is redundant (currently)

Might cut down on the number of queries
I considered that but wasn't sure if I wanted to document what's technically a bug. I'm open to doing so if Geoff is on board. But if it might be fixed relatively soon, might be best to just avoid having to remember to update the wiki again afterwards.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:23 AM   #14403
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Should have mentioned, EuCon is not operational in v1.1 yet, you need to use v1.0.
Ah yes that did it! working now thank you
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:26 AM   #14404
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As I work through fixing the unwanted auto map, a side thought emerged, which may or may not have bearing on the bug, but wanted to discuss anyway.


Should we decouple the mapping initiation completely from the actual mapping, even on the originating surface ?

In other words, in order to get local surface mapping, you would have to:
Code:
SetBroadcastMapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
and
Code:
SetReceiveMapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
This provides for a lot more flexibility and control with the usual tradeoff of more complexity.

What do you think ?
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Old 07-21-2021, 07:24 AM   #14405
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This provides for a lot more flexibility and control with the usual tradeoff of more complexity.

What do you think ?
If I'm understanding: we could set it up where the local surface could ignore the send mapping (for instance) but still be used to broadcast to another? Whereas now, if a send zone exists it's always going to set locally and then optionally broadcast. Which, I thought you could do anyway if you didn't have a send zone on your local surface but set it to broadcast with the correct mapping action in the zone file. Now, if that's not it, then I just don't understand (Mixmonkey may be a labrador, then I'm a terrier - barking at every sound I hear).

If I did get it, then it sounds like you'd need to tell the local surface to map sends in addition to actually having the action to map sends, which would be confusing. I'm sure it could benefit someone but I my gut reaction is that the complexity and potential for confusion would outweigh the use-cases where people would take advantage of it.

I'm always going to be inclined to vote against adding complexity unless there's a killer use-case. And I may just be totally missing that killer use-case.
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Old 07-21-2021, 07:50 AM   #14406
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I'm always going to be inclined to vote against adding complexity unless there's a killer use-case. And I may just be totally missing that killer use-case.
I don’t think you are missing the killer use case You’re right, currently the way we avoid having something map locally is just to not include the Zone it would need to make that happen, whilst enabling broadcast of the mapping Action and receive of the same Action on the surface that does have the Zone needed for the mapping to take place.

I think what we have at the moment is more in line with peeps expectations, many of whom are going to be starting with one surface and won’t want to take on board the whole broadcast/receive thing until they find their feet.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:15 AM   #14407
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OK guys, you sold me -- no changes on that right now.
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:16 PM   #14408
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Hey Geoff,

For the new TouchOSC there's a problem with button feedback. As of right now, no matter what we do in the program, we can't turn off the local feedback. So when you press a button it TouchOSC, TouchOSC tells it to light up. We obviously want CSI to completely control the feedback.

Both I and MM have messaged the devs, so it's possible they add the possibility to turn off the feedback completely. But for now, I was exploring other ways to deal with it.

What's interesting is, this is what happens when trying to latch a modifier with time stamps.

21:02:07.166 Button pressed /Home/Control FLOAT (1)
21:02:07.194 CSI sends /Home/Control FLOAT (1)
21:02:07.212 Button Released (I think that's what this is) /Home/Control FLOAT (0)

What happens is the modifier is latched but the button isn't lit up.

I'm only asking now because, the new TouchOSC adds LUA scripting. I've been playing around and trying to learn it, I think it maybe possible to deal with this in that way. I sort of imagined it would be difficult to deal with on CSI's end. But I don't know. Anyways, as long as you agree, I'm going to keep diving deeper.
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Old 07-22-2021, 02:36 AM   #14409
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Hey Geoff,

For the new TouchOSC there's a problem with button feedback. As of right now, no matter what we do in the program, we can't turn off the local feedback. So when you press a button it TouchOSC, TouchOSC tells it to light up. We obviously want CSI to completely control the feedback.

Both I and MM have messaged the devs, so it's possible they add the possibility to turn off the feedback completely. But for now, I was exploring other ways to deal with it.

What's interesting is, this is what happens when trying to latch a modifier with time stamps.

21:02:07.166 Button pressed /Home/Control FLOAT (1)
21:02:07.194 CSI sends /Home/Control FLOAT (1)
21:02:07.212 Button Released (I think that's what this is) /Home/Control FLOAT (0)

What happens is the modifier is latched but the button isn't lit up.

I'm only asking now because, the new TouchOSC adds LUA scripting. I've been playing around and trying to learn it, I think it maybe possible to deal with this in that way. I sort of imagined it would be difficult to deal with on CSI's end. But I don't know. Anyways, as long as you agree, I'm going to keep diving deeper.
You're kidding me

OK, can you go back to a previous version that works, and monitor the traffic, it will likely make much more sense.

Then you can use that working set to help you design a workaround.


Geeeeez, you really serious they broke it that much ?

Wow !
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:04 AM   #14410
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
You're kidding me

OK, can you go back to a previous version that works, and monitor the traffic, it will likely make much more sense.

Then you can use that working set to help you design a workaround.


Geeeeez, you really serious they broke it that much ?

Wow !
I think it was just an oversight. The new version really is far and away better. The possibilities are sky high. I'm spending alot of my time here lately learning lua and hopefully it pays off in contributions to CSI.

I'll try and hook up the log to mk1 and see what I see. New version wins there too because they have a version of protokol baked in to the app.
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Old 07-22-2021, 06:25 AM   #14411
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
You're kidding me

OK, can you go back to a previous version that works, and monitor the traffic, it will likely make much more sense.

Then you can use that working set to help you design a workaround.


Geeeeez, you really serious they broke it that much ?

Wow !
The messages sent by the two versions are identical. It's only how the indicator light responds that differs.

If you start the old TouchOSC on the iPad with no host to connect to and press a button, the indicator light will do nothing (correctly, as there's no feedback to respond to).

On the new version, the indicator light turns on when you press (and hold) and off when you release. This is possibly interferring with the feedback when the host is running.
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:14 AM   #14412
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The messages sent by the two versions are identical. It's only how the indicator light responds that differs.

If you start the old TouchOSC on the iPad with no host to connect to and press a button, the indicator light will do nothing (correctly, as there's no feedback to respond to).

On the new version, the indicator light turns on when you press (and hold) and off when you release. This is possibly interferring with the feedback when the host is running.
Ah, got it.

Hopefully you folks can advocate for restoration of the "local feedback off" option, wishing you good luck with it, the previous behaviour was great for CSI feedback, as you well know !!
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:22 AM   #14413
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Ah, got it.

Hopefully you folks can advocate for restoration of the "local feedback off" option, wishing you good luck with it, the previous behaviour was great for CSI feedback, as you well know !!
I just sent them a new support inquiry (#2) describing the issue and suggesting that the 'local feedback off' function (now called simply 'feedback') does not seem to work as before.
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:29 AM   #14414
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I just sent them a new support inquiry (#2) describing the issue and suggesting that the 'local feedback off' function (now called simply 'feedback') does not seem to work as before.
What button type are you using? Have you tried Momentary? I haven't noticed any unexpected behavior with Momentary buttons (Press and Release checked) and Feedback off (Send and Receive enabled).
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:46 AM   #14415
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What button type are you using?
Momentary.
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Old 07-22-2021, 10:51 AM   #14416
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Momentary.
Same as both of you.

FB you are saying modifiers and toggle buttons function correctly for you?
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Old 07-22-2021, 11:14 AM   #14417
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Same as both of you.

FB you are saying modifiers and toggle buttons function correctly for you?
I don't use modifiers on my TouchOSC setup, but toggles work here. That said, I think I found what I'm doing differently: I have each toggle button duplicated on the surface. See below. The one under the label is the one I actually use for pressing. The one in the center of the encoder is used just for showing the feedback.



If I press the button under the label, there's no issue with the toggle state that appears on the button inside the ring. It works as expected. But yeah, if I press the button in the encoder, I get weird results.

Why did I just happen to design it this way with two versions of the button? I just decided that it was easier to hit the button without accidentally moving the rotary by having the button copied and off to the side.
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Old 07-22-2021, 12:02 PM   #14418
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I don't use modifiers on my TouchOSC setup, but toggles work here. That said, I think I found what I'm doing differently: I have each toggle button duplicated on the surface. See below. The one under the label is the one I actually use for pressing. The one in the center of the encoder is used just for showing the feedback.
I take it that the label over the button you’re pressing obscures the lit (or otherwise) state of that button? Could you temporarily move the ‘snap’ label aside and see what the button light is doing?
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Old 07-22-2021, 03:14 PM   #14419
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I take it that the label over the button you’re pressing obscures the lit (or otherwise) state of that button? Could you temporarily move the ‘snap’ label aside and see what the button light is doing?
If I use one button to do the pressing, the feedback state on the other is accurate but the feedback state on the button I pressed is jacked up. Flip the buttons and same result (note: if you go from one button to another, it takes a press or two to "catch up").
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Old 07-22-2021, 03:24 PM   #14420
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
If I use one button to do the pressing, the feedback state on the other is accurate but the feedback state on the button I pressed is jacked up. Flip the buttons and same result (note: if you go from one button to another, it takes a press or two to "catch up").
Thanks for confirming that It seems clear that it's the local feedback to the light that's causing the issue. Hence correct operation of the indicator on the button you don't press, as well as correct operation when the state is changed with the mouse.
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:15 PM   #14421
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Thanks for confirming that It seems clear that it's the local feedback to the light that's causing the issue. Hence correct operation of the indicator on the button you don't press, as well as correct operation when the state is changed with the mouse.
Yeah, agree. I’m sure they’ll fix it soon.
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Old 07-24-2021, 04:48 AM   #14422
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Ok adding the FX slot automap on/off.

Propose doing it with an Action:

SetFXMenuSlotBankCausesAutomap

The default is off.

This makes sense if you use it this way:

Code:
OnInitialization SetFXMenuSlotBankCausesAutomap
or do you need to turn it on/off during a session ?
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Old 07-24-2021, 04:56 AM   #14423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ok adding the FX slot automap on/off.

Propose doing it with an Action:

SetFXMenuSlotBankCausesAutomap

The default is off.

This makes sense if you use it this way:

Code:
OnInitialization SetFXMenuSlotBankCausesAutomap
or do you need to turn it on/off during a session ?
Why not just have it turned off permanently and then use:
Code:
SomeButton  FXSlotBank -1
SomeButton  GoCurrentFXSlot

SomeOtherButton  FXSlotBank 1
SomeOtherButton  GoCurrentFXSlot
...if you want the FX to map as you change slot?
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Old 07-24-2021, 04:57 AM   #14424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ok adding the FX slot automap on/off.

Propose doing it with an Action:

SetFXMenuSlotBankCausesAutomap

The default is off.

This makes sense if you use it this way:

Code:
OnInitialization SetFXMenuSlotBankCausesAutomap
or do you need to turn it on/off during a session ?
My presumption is that one would want one behavior or the other and not need to switch.

Mostly everything else in that space has a sister action though. Maybe it's best to make it now in case it ever comes up? Haha I'm sure that's your dilemma though. But for me personally I can only see wanting it one way.
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Old 07-24-2021, 08:24 AM   #14425
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Why not just have it turned off permanently and then use:
Code:
SomeButton  FXSlotBank -1
SomeButton  GoCurrentFXSlot

SomeOtherButton  FXSlotBank 1
SomeOtherButton  GoCurrentFXSlot
...if you want the FX to map as you change slot?
I think I'm with you on this one.

One question: what's the difference between GoFXSlot and GoCurrentFXSlot? Don't they both map the current FXSlot?
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Old 07-24-2021, 08:39 AM   #14426
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I think I'm with you on this one.

One question: what's the difference between GoFXSlot and GoCurrentFXSlot? Don't they both map the current FXSlot?
I thought GoFXSlot needed an argument, a number or |, from the widget it was mapped to?
Like:
Code:
RotaryPushD|   GoFXSlot
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Old 07-24-2021, 08:40 AM   #14427
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I thought GoFXSlot needed an argument, a number or |, from the widget it was mapped to?
Like:
Code:
RotaryPushD|   GoFXSlot
Ah, I see. That makes sense to me now.
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Old 07-24-2021, 08:43 AM   #14428
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Added a page to the Wiki on how to disable feedback to a widget using the NoFeedback action:

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...iki/NoFeedback

Note: I opted not to document Property+ thing because this is the only official use-case I've seen for that. I'm not even sure if it technically qualifies as a modifier. Geoff, feel free to edit for clarity as always.

I'll try to add a section on Touch messages at some point today.
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Old 07-24-2021, 08:45 AM   #14429
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Ah, I see. That makes sense to me now.
Only if I’m right
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Old 07-24-2021, 10:23 AM   #14430
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Details on the Touch modifiers added to the wiki:

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...odifiers#touch
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Old 07-24-2021, 10:24 AM   #14431
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Only if I’m right
You usually are.
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Old 07-24-2021, 11:39 AM   #14432
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Details on the Touch modifiers added to the wiki:

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...odifiers#touch
Real nice work man, explains it beautifully !
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Old 07-24-2021, 11:40 AM   #14433
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Added a page to the Wiki on how to disable feedback to a widget using the NoFeedback action:

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...iki/NoFeedback

Note: I opted not to document Property+ thing because this is the only official use-case I've seen for that. I'm not even sure if it technically qualifies as a modifier. Geoff, feel free to edit for clarity as always.

I'll try to add a section on Touch messages at some point today.
Had a quick scan, looks good !
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Old 07-24-2021, 11:41 AM   #14434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Why not just have it turned off permanently and then use:
Code:
SomeButton  FXSlotBank -1
SomeButton  GoCurrentFXSlot

SomeOtherButton  FXSlotBank 1
SomeOtherButton  GoCurrentFXSlot
...if you want the FX to map as you change slot?
Yup, you are right
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Old 07-24-2021, 11:41 AM   #14435
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New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

As per @MixMonkeys posts above.
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:07 PM   #14436
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New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

As per @MixMonkeys posts above.
This seems to be the build from the 18th. Is there a different CSI Exp.zip?
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:17 PM   #14437
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This seems to be the build from the 18th. Is there a different CSI Exp.zip?
The 1.1 build was updated today. Maybe there?
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:18 PM   #14438
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The 1.1 build was updated today. Maybe there?
Yep, I think that's it FXSlotBank doesn't seem to automap now.
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:19 PM   #14439
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The 1.1 build was updated today. Maybe there?
Oops, yup, posted to the wrong place

Also posted to CSI Exp.zip now.
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Old 07-24-2021, 07:36 PM   #14440
MixMonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.
CSI Exp.zip
As per @MixMonkeys posts above.
Gave it a quick try out (quite late here) and it seems to work as expected It allows you to navigate through the FXSlots when using the TrackFXMenuSlotNavigator and then map a particular FXSlot, on a selected channel:
Code:
Zone "TrackFXMenuSlot"
    TrackFXMenuSlotNavigator
        DisplayUpper|               TrackNameDisplay
        DisplayLower|               FXMenuNameDisplay
        Select|                     TrackUniqueSelect
        Select|                     GoCurrentFXSlot
        BankLeft                    FXMenuSlotBank -1
        BankRight                   FXMenuSlotBank 1
ZoneEnd
Also, you can use:
Code:
        SlotUp              FXMenuSlotBank -1
        SlotUp              GoCurrentFXSlot
        SlotDown            FXMenuSlotBank 1
        SlotDown            GoCurrentFXSlot
... to step forward and back through the FX on the selected track (pretty sure this has to be in conjunction with a SelectedTrackFXMenu Zone, but will need to test more)

The only thing missing is that it doesn't bank the FXMenu itself, in the same way that SendSlotBank and ReceiveSlotBank do. So you can't bank the FXMenu to display FX beyond the first 8 (on an 8 channel surface)

Would an 'FXMenuBank' Action be possible to go with what we have?

Must go to bed now....
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