Building the Best Reaper DAW PC for $1500

[CrashAlpha]

Hello Experts...

I've decided to build my own PC for Reaper! My budget is an arbitrary $1500 Canadian. Can the gifted please help?

Here is what I am considering (also arbitrarily picking newegg as the supplier, actual supplier will be a friend of mine who has a pro PC building business, but doesn't knows DAWs):

CPU - Intel i7 950 $300.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819115211

Motherboard - Intel DP55WG $150.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813121387

RAM - Corsair 12 GB DDR 1600 $350.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...2E16820145271&

System Drive - Kingston 128 GB SSD SSDNow V+ 180 $300.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820139287

Data Drives - 2 X 640 GB WD Caviar Blue SATA 3.0 HD's $140.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822136218

Case/PSU - Antec Sonata III 500 + 500W PSU $120.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811129024

Total $1,360.00

That's it! Opinions? Praise? Flames?

Crash

OPTIONAL READING!!!

Below are boring details on what I'll be doing and why I chose what I did. I don't want to frighten off anyone who might answer, so reading this is TOTALLY at your risk!

Given the 12GB, I'll be needing a 64bit O/S, so we'll say Windows 7/64. I'm a developer, and this PC has to work for a living, my plan is to create VM's for my working envirnment, but the bare-bones core system will be the DAW.

Current Audio/MIDI H/W is an M-Audio Audiophile FW and MidiSPORT 2x4.

Reasons for choosing hardware above:

Intel DP55WG MB - most fully-loaded non-extreme board, has Firewire, which I need and consider desirable, most PCI slots and while not the most exciting MB manufacturer out there, they are known for stability and the excelent warranty support.

Intel I7 950 CPU - recent price drop makes this think look better than anything around it, even i5's.

Corsair 12GB RAM - picked Corsair because it appeared to be an upper limit on price, and I don't screw around with fast RAM!

Kingston 128 GB SSD - I have to work this machine, too! I'm a developer, and have TONS of Windows and remote desktops and other crap running... really, fast I/O for paging and the O/S would be a huge boost in quality of life.

Antec Sonata Case - apparently purpose built for quietness. The Designer III 500 came with a PSU, and I am betting their "Green" 80+ Rated 500W PSU is well regulated and stable. I believe that Antec may have better choices for a DAW< but I don't know enough about the brand, and availability may be an issue.

WD Caviar Blue - great reviews, suposedly quiet and fast, and reasoning that two fast drives are better than one big one... wondering about the best configuration of these drives, actually.

[JGrabowMST]

I do believe you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and I'm here to also tell you all those links are bad, try reposting those.

For your motherboard, you can only go for Socket 1366 boards. i7 9xx series is only LGA1366. Core i7 8xx is Socket 1156. Not cross compatible at all, under any situation.

I would opt for WD Black series drives rather than Blue series for a bit more speed.

12gb of RAM is plenty, you wont be feeling left out any time soon.

I would strongly advise a PCI-E x1 type FW card rather than relying on the motherboard. Working with M-Audio and helping with their support staff, trust me, you'd very much rather be safe than sorry. If you want a few suggestions for compatible cards, I can list some for you.

I'm also going to be the dummy to suggest the possibility of using a Western Digital Raptor rather than a SSD. I still don't quite trust SSDs, and I'm quite sure they're fast (I've used them before) but there's still a handful dying now and then, and data recovery off those in the event of a failure? Hard pressed to say that's possible, given it wouldn't be mechanical failure.

My only last words for you:

Gigabyte X58A-(insert model here).

Oh, and about Antec, well, they have lots of options, I test some of the gear from time to time, but I wouldn't call them cheap. It's all about what you're willing to spend on it.

[Kundalinguist]

I bought this brand of power supply and it is DEAD SILENT. Not even the slightest sound. The original power supply I got with the case was loud as hell by comparison. This and quiet internal fans are FUNDAMENTAL to using it for audio work. You don't want anything even near loud going on in there or it'll distract you constantly.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...114&CatId=1483

Also, don't scrimp on the case. Pay a little extra for a solid piece of metal. Mine was a little cheap and although I don't regret buying it, the next one will be superior in quality.

[Fabian]

About the Antec Sonata III, I can tell you this: the PSU fan is not the most silent I've encountered. It's not the noisiest either, but if I could re-do my own setup (AMD based) I'd not go for the Sonata case. Maybe you could do what Kunda suggests, change the PSU (and modular is the way to go), but then you could just as well go for another case, entirely.

Also, I don't know about the cooling fans that come with the i7, but lots of advice is on buying better cooling, mainly for noise (and you do want your DAW to be really quiet). I chose the Noctua U12. Seems like a great piece of engineering, and dead silent...

[airon]

Originally Posted by Fabian

About the Antec Sonata III, I can tell you this: the PSU fan is not the most silent I've encountered. It's not the noisiest either, but if I could re-do my own setup (AMD based) I'd not go for the Sonata case. Maybe you could do what Kunda suggests, change the PSU (and modular is the way to go), but then you could just as well go for another case, entirely.

Also, I don't know about the cooling fans that come with the i7, but lots of advice is on buying better cooling, mainly for noise (and you do want your DAW to be really quiet). I chose the Noctua U12. Seems like a great piece of engineering, and dead silent...

I have that same unit. Great cooling solution for my i7. Worth every cent.

[PitchSlap]

Looks like a great system, I'm LOVING mine, which is similar.

The only real gripe I have with my new system is the damn video card. It's huge and covers one of the PCI slots I needed for my Delta1010LT (the other is for my UAD). Oh well. I'll also need more RAM and another HD soon, but DDR3 2000 tri-channel RAM and SATA 6/Gbs hard drives are still a little pricey.

I'd suggest a better motherboard though. Based on the suggestion of someone on the forum here, I went 1366 and got the ASUS P6X58D Premium which rocks! 6-core ready, USB3, SATA 6Gbs, and I can even surf the net, make Sykpe calls etc. right from the BIOS seconds after turning the power on!

Another suggestion would be to check out http://www.bestdirect.ca/
I had a great experience with them and the prices can't be beat (and if they can, ask them to match).

Good luck!

[Analogy]

If you're doing two hard drives for data, I'd go RAID1 with them. Actually, though, I'd look at cheaper drives with less individual capacity, but if you get three of them in RAID5 you would end up with more capacity for the same price and redundancy as two larger drives in RAID1. A quick browse of Newegg tells me you can get three 500GB WD Black drives for $180. $40 ain't much to pay for an extra 360GB. You also get better throughput with three drives in RAID5 than you get from two in RAID1.

[CrashAlpha]

So, after fielding the many excellent recommendations, this is what I have put together. Things have changed a lot! Here is the system, slightly over $1500, but barely.

BTW - the choice of newegg is completely arbitrary, I am sure that when you place an order for stuff like this on the phone, you can talk them down and come in sub $1500.

CPU Intel i7 950 $300.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819115211

Motherboard Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R $220.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813128423

RAM Corsair 12 GB DDR 1600 $350.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...2E16820145271&

CD/DVD Burner Hewlett-Packard 1260i $30.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827140042

HDD 3 X 500 GB Western Digital Caviar Black SATA 3.0 HD's (RAID 5 Config) $195.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822136218

Video Card ASUS ENGT240 Silent/DI/1GD3 GeForce GT 240 1GB $100.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121369

Firewire Card SYBA SD-PEX-NEC4F PCI-Express 1394a FireWire 4 ports $35.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16812186009

Case Antec P183 Mid-tower $150.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811129061

PSU OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ600MXSP $75.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817341017

CPU Cooler Noctua NH-U12P SE2 120mm SSO CPU Cooler $80.00
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...N82E1683560801

Total $1,535.00

What's changed?

CPU - same, the i7 950 just got a price break, still seems like a good buy.

Motherboard JBrabowMST recommended this one, and I was eyeing GB boards, but out of concern from my friend who is very wary of anyone who doesn't have Intel's reputation for service and support, I originall went with Intel. ASUS MB's were out, given their reputation ahs taken a bit of a beating lately. I don't know enough about the issues around it to take a chance. However, I must say I have seen some swearing at GB for warranty support, but the complaints were older.

RAM - still gunning for the Corsair, assuming price-quality.

CD/DVD burner - OOPS! Forgot about this. BluRay wa tempting, but I saw complaints that sub $100 BluRay burners only worked on PowerDVD or other proprietary software. When the time comes, I'll get an external BluRay. The HP I included had good reviews.

HDD - went with Analogy's recommednation for three smaller drives in RAID5 config. Throughput was the selling point here.

SDD - Gone, more on that later.

Video Card - The GB MB doesn't have video, so I need one. I don't watch TV on my PC because... I have a TV. However, I do like my car racing simulators (NO! Not freakin' Grand Theft Auto!) Here I did go for ASUS because it was fanless, had 1GB of RAM and pretty good reviews.

Firewire card - once again, I took JBrabowMST's advice and went for a seperate card.

Case - went with the Antec P183. I'd seen this mentioned before from other DAW builders. Honestly, I'd much rather buy a really silent case and modular silent PSU in one shot, though!

PSU - as per Kundalinguist's recommendation, I went with OCZ ModXStream Pro.

CPU Cooler - as per Fabian and airon's recommendations.

AND NOW - the lamented loss of the SSD. This hurts. I think that SSD's are going to be increasingly important, and I am just sick to death of watching the cursor with the hourglass over it while listening to my HDD thrash for some mysterious reason. I am assuming this is internal garbage collection, VMM paging, whatever. I don't care. If I haven't opened a big massive file, I don't want to hear my hard disk having seizures. Whatever tuning tips you get, or no matter what advice you get, eventually, this will creep back in. Fine, if a PC HAS to do this, do it on a bloody fast device and leave me alone to work. After three decades of programming I deserve some peace. I will revisit this issue I am sure.

Thanks to all BTW. This question must come up tons of times and I appreciat the help very much. One wonders why their isn't a sticky thread on it.

Crash

[JGrabowMST]

OC-Z is a decent brand, I'd probably opt for an Enermax Pro87+ 600W instead, but you aren't going to see a huge difference between the two.

I'm hard pressed to say that FW card is great though, it uses a NEC chipset, which I'm skeptical about. I'm not going to rant and rave and say that TI are the best, but they were paired with Apple when the standard was created, so I'm going by that to say they have a better chance of working with FW audio interfaces, because audio interfaces are way pickier than external hard drives.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...w=1215&bih=754

That's what I would suggest, if you can find it. FW interfaces are extremely picky, and honestly, I bought a TI based card for one of my laptops, and my interface blue screens whenever plugged into it. Some computers work beautifully, others are a nightmare. If you can source that card in your budget, I would strongly recommend it.

I honestly wouldn't necessarily pick the Antec P183, I think it's ugly, but if you like it, that's what matters right? I have a sample LanBoy Air here, but as soon as I get a new power supply (next week or the week after maybe) I'll be moving out of that case, it just doesn't do it for me. I have a cheap, heavily modded Cooler Master Elite 330 that's seen 4 computers so far, and it's been doing just fine for me.

I'm iffy on the RAID 5, but I personally don't use RAID, so I'll leave that to those who do. I keep it simple, and backup often, that's my prevention method.

Not sure about talking Newegg down, but the build is starting to look good. You've got room to tweak components and still have a blazing fast machine, so that's the good part so far. Tweaking the RAM, case, and hard drives is where you'll find your room for changing components.

A cheaper case lined with Acousti-Pack will be just as good as that P183, don't forget other toys like Scythe Quiet Drives, or suspension methods. Good choice on the fanless GPU, and the CPU cooler should be great. I would personally use a Scythe Ninja, but that's only because I have one in each of my main workstations. It might be a little cheaper than the noctua, but the fan that comes with the noctua will be well worth it. I would also think about dropping the stock fans in the Antec P183, they aren't very quiet to be honest. Antec started changing from their signature Tri-Cool to new two speed fans with smaller central hubs, a good start, but still not the greatest fans you'll find. I hardly ever use a CD drive for anything at this point, so whatever's cheap and works is good enough for me.

Corsair makes good stuff, I have a power supply from them, and love it. As far as the RAM goes, well, to me, RAM is RAM. As long as I'm not getting blue screens or totally unstable, I could care less who makes it. With that said, I personally use G-Skill in my audio workstation, but have had good experiences with both Patriot and Geil. My beef with Patriot is the tall heat spreaders which don't fit under most large CPU heatsinks. I wouldn't buy A-Data myself, but I've never heard horror stories about it. I've seen people have problems with G-Skill, but I'm not at a point where upgrading is cost effective, and mine works fine, so that's just that.

Computer shopping is a learning adventure just as much as it is a challenge to get what you want for the price you want.

[TimOBrien]

Forget the RAID. Not a good solution for what we do.

Go with OS, apps and plugins on boot drive, one drive for samples and one drive for audio projects and miscellaneous data.

Buy an external usb drive for backups.

[CrashAlpha]

Once more, with feeling.

I went to http://ncix.com/ taking as much of the advice as I could afford. I then used ncix.com's "price matching" feature, which lets you insert the price and URL of another site's competing price. I used newegg.ca's pricing where they were beating ncix. The savings were considerable.

I still have 20-30 bucks I can shave off once i talk to a rep (price match software wasn't quite working) but take a look at what you can get for CAD $1500 - built, tested, delivered and insured:

Case - Antec Solo Quiet Mini Tower Case ATX Silver Black 4X5.25 4X3.5INT No PS: $99.99
MB - Gigabyte X58A-UD3R ATX LGA1366 X58 DDR3 4PCI-E SATA3 USB3.0 Sound GLAN CrossFireX SLI Motherboard: $219.99
RAM - Corsair XMS3 HX3X12G1600C9 12GB DDR3 6X2GB DDR3-1600 CL 9-9-9-24 Core i7 Memory Kit: $198.59
CD/DVD - Samsung SH-S223C 22X DVD Writer SATA Black OEM: $25.99
HDD O/S - Western Digital Velociraptor WD1500HLFS 150GB SATA 10000RPM 5.5MS 16MB Cache 3.5IN Hard Drive: $79.99
HDD Data - 2 X Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB 7200RPM 32MB Dual Proc 3.5IN SATA Hard Drive: $139.30
Video - ASUS ENGT240 Silent GeForce GT 240 550MHZ 1GB DDR3 1.58GHZ HDMI DVI VGA Video Card: $110.40
PSU - OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W ATX 20/24PIN SLI Ready Modular Cables 135mm Fan Active PFC Power Supply: $74.99
CPU - Intel Core i7 950 Quad Core Processor LGA1366 3.06GHZ Bloomfield 8MB LGA1366 4.8GT/S: $309.99
CPU fan - Noctua NH-U12P SE2 LGA775/1156/1366 AM2/AM3 I7/I5/PHENOM Heatpipe Cooler W/ 2XNH-P12 120MM Fans: $79.99
Firewire - Startech 2 Port Firewire 800 + 1 Port Firewire 400 PCI Express Adapter Card: $58.03
Labour - PC Assembly and Testing With 1 Year Limited NCIX System Warranty: $50.00

- Shipping and Handling: $37.28 : $37.28
- Shipping Insurance with 30 Days Express RMA (3.00%): $43.42.32
- (SUBTOTAL: $1,526.96)
- No PST - Outside BC residents: $0.00
- GST(5%): $72.79 : $76.40
- TOTAL: -
- All quoted prices are in CANADIAN DOLLARS: $1,603.36

What do you think - given the rule is "build it for $1500", would you hit "Checkout"?

[JGrabowMST]

I would build it myself, and learn the fine art of "cablegami" among other things.

It would also teach you the basics of troubleshooting, and configuring the entire machine yourself. Should you ever have a problem with it, that would mean you would know exactly how it was set up, and then how to find the problems.

Of course, I've been building computers since middle school, so it's cake to me, but honestly, they only go together one way, and as long as you're careful about it, nothing breaks.

I'd also say that your biggest test will be that FW card, to make sure that it does work with FW audio interfaces, and doesn't give you problems. That's the first thing to test once you get it up and running (whether you build it or not), so it may be worth holding off on that, and ordering that card separately, so you don't have to go through hell if you have to return it.

As far as everything else goes, it looks fine to me. Good choice on the drives, just make sure you don't lose track of where your data is saved, or that 150gb raptor is going to feel very small (I've gotten mine all the way to 120gb used before cleaning up).

[CrashAlpha]

Originally Posted by JGrabowMST

I would build it myself, and learn the fine art of "cablegami" among other things.

It would also teach you the basics of troubleshooting, and configuring the entire machine yourself. Should you ever have a problem with it, that would mean you would know exactly how it was set up, and then how to find the problems.

LOL - oh, this is very deliberate. I spent years in technical services - starting as a field tech to technical services adminsitrator. My days of ENJOYING being elbow-deep in the guts of a PC are behind me which is why I came in to this naive about the elements - I've stayed away from it. Plus, I wanted the vendor to assemble the PC so that they would guarantee its interoperability right away.

Originally Posted by JGrabowMST

I'd also say that your biggest test will be that FW card, to make sure that it does work with FW audio interfaces, and doesn't give you problems.

I actually made sure I ordered a card with the TI chipset, as per your suggestion. Hopefully this will help tame the FW beast.

Originally Posted by JGrabowMST

Good choice on the drives{/QUOTE]Just make sure you don't lose track of where your data is saved, or that 150gb raptor is going to feel very small

This little drive is going to force me to decide exactly what should and shouldn't go on a high speed drive to see the true performance benefits... I'll be coming back for advice on this - believe me!

Thanks for the attention and great advice!

[kachaloo2002]

this was a very instructive thread, and I for one will be following yous guys adventures. Now how DO you make the choices about what to send where? And how do you actually execute those choices?

Sounds like another thread . . .

[CrashAlpha]

Originally Posted by kachaloo2002

Now how DO you make the choices about what to send where? And how do you actually execute those choices?

The thing that was interesting with going with this vendor was they encourage you to challenge their prices on-line by sending them links to other pages. They accepted all of the price changes I requested; they are actually happy too, as market pressure will force them to lower their prices anyway - but this way their clients do the research for them and they don't lose the sale.

So, the motivation to order from more than one place is low. I bought it all from one place, using all of my research to force the vendor to give me the full advantage of the deals I found.

Can you tell I'm feelng pleased with myself? ;D

[JGrabowMST]

Ha, well, sounds like you've got it made so far.

I'm just saying that the builders are going to ensure that the components are working right, but they aren't going to grab a FW audio interface and go through a bunch of software and test it.

That'll be for you to test out and hope it all works, and the drivers for the interface will be make or break.

[CrashAlpha]

Well, it's here and its built and after a lot of messing around and ending up having to get my hands much dirtier than I intended, it's installed.

THE BAD NEWS: This isn't a silent... Antec should be ashemaed of themselves installing a fan that is ONLY quiet when set to low speed. At first I blamed the OCZ PSU, but I was wrong. The Noctua fans are whiney, perhaps they are running too high because I haven't seen the CPU go above 40 C - but then again, I haven't done very much with the PC yet - just browing and e-mail.

I'll go back into the BIOS abd see if I have any choices as far as controlling CPU fan speed is concerned.

Otherwise, the unit feels very solid and of course, fast. I am using VMWare Player to create VM's for my "day job" applications, then I intend to go back to the root system and run Reaper.

BTW JGrabowMST - you were right about the "TriCool" fan.

[JGrabowMST]

Antec has new fans in the works actually, but they're two speed, not 3 speed, it's got a smaller central hub as well, but I didn't find the quiet until I took them down to 7v.

I do believe noctua's have LNA and ULNA's included (I could be wrong). Those are the "Low Noise Adapters" and "Ultra Low Noise Adapters." They're very effective, and will work on other fans as well. I personally hardware all my fans to 7v for a good balance.

I put my rig back into my Cooler Master Elite 330 with my Corsair power supply, and I have no complaints. My raptor makes a lot of noise, but that's a given.

I have a new Antec HCG-400 on the way actually. Unfortunately however, so far only my TPN-750 from Antec has PWM fan control in the PSU. From how quiet that unit is, I'm surprised more manufacturers aren't using that technology for PSUs.

[CrashAlpha]

It turns out the Noctua doesn't play well with PWM. I went to the BIOS and disabled MB CPU fan control, and it kept making the same noise, which suggested the fan was running full tilt. Switching to PWM, same result, which suggested the board had decided under "Auto" that PWM was the way to go.

Switching to Voltage Controlled finally quietened the unit to what I would consider a "normal" PC sound. Absolutely no noise from the Velociraptor or the twin Barracudas, though.

Yep - the Noctua comes with the LNA/ULNA's - do I dare to mess with this and try for even more silence?

And should I worry about the unit's cooling with the Antec fan set to low? Sounds like I should set the BIOS heat alarms on just in case. For what temperature, though?

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by CrashAlpha

Yep - the Noctua comes with the LNA/ULNA's - do I dare to mess with this and try for even more silence?

I tried with the LNA/ULNA's but ditched them. Setting BIOS to voltage control the fans worked much better for me. I've yet to see my Noctua fans run above 800 rpm, to me they are dead silent. Any noise they make is drowned by the CPU fan.

Run the Prime95 torture test (http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=103) while monitoring CPU temp and fan speed, and see what you get.

[JGrabowMST]

From building "silent" and very quiet workstations for a few years now, the most important question is:

What are you most comfortable with? [In terms of temps]

In my Cooler Master Elite 330, I have:

1 Exhaust fan
1 CPU fan
1 GPU fan
1 PSU fan

No more. None in the front, nothing extra thrown in somewhere.

The CPU and GPU fan both run at 7v, which is the same as using a Noctua LNA. I get no noise from either fan. The Exhaust fan is actually plugged into the CPU header. I get scrutiny from having done this, however it is simply because as heat increases, I like to exhaust it out faster, not circulate it more.

My side vents are blocked off completely, air gets filtered through the front of my case, and sent out the back. There is no other path for airflow to travel.

I will say this though, about fans: If you have one running on a PWM header, make sure it's a PWM fan. Older 3 pin fans are rarely controllable on PWM circuits, so it's best to keep it very simple, and use what was designed to go there. I know the plug is offset to allow for 3 pin fans, but the point is, it's a PWM header. If you want to use it for PWM, use a PWM fan.

Noctua does make PWM fans, you just have to make sure you go for the right model.

Antec Tri-Cools move plenty of air at a low setting as well, so I wouldn't worry about those fans being on the low setting. Even still, I did tell you about tri-cools.

I built a CAD workstation around a Core i7 950, and I used a Scythe Ninja 3 for cooling. I would say that while I didn't stress test it for temps (I used 3d benchmarks), the CPU idle was around 40-45C, depending on how hot the shop was (I built the machine in the middle of the summer). Since your cooler is on par with what I used your temps should be within 2C of what I got, so anywhere between 38 and 47C is a safe idle temp. Load temps shouldn't exceed 75C, if they do, you either have a bad thermal diode, or your heatsink isn't seated correctly.

Personally, my Core 2 Quad, which runs a little cooler than your i7 idles between 32 and 36C, with a 7v CPU fan, and one exhaust fan. My GPU, an ATI HD4850, has an Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 on it, along with a 7v 92mm fan. It idles around 35C, and can hit 46C under load/gaming.

http://www.kwikpiks.com/files/129/IMG_0997.JPG

I do use aftermarket heatsinks on nearly everything, but for the most part, that's how my box looks. Very little has changed since it's been in that case.

The computers are build for customers aren't so messy, but with the cheap and older case I use, that's as good as it gets.

--side note--

Since it's the winter, homes generally have the heat on. If your computer is near a heater, or a heating vent, it will very obviously have an effect on your temps, the same way air conditioning will in the summer.

[mplay]

Im waiting for sandy bridge to release next month. I'll probably go for the i7 2600k. Looks like 30 to 40% more power

I've also heard good things about the crucial c300 ssd. Nice to have sata 6

[CrashAlpha]

Thanks for the insights; I'm pretty happy with the way things are running now. It's time to close the box and start evaluating how this will work with Reaper 64!

I did install a TI-based firewire card, but I am interested in seeing whether the GB board does have any reliability issues with its FW. I have an M-Audio Audiophile FW - does anyone have any ideas on how to stress-test the MB ports vs the add-on card?

[JGrabowMST]

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

Do a session using the motherboard FW port, do a session using the card. Use the exact same settings and try to use the same sound clips (such as using a set playlist off an ipod for example).

Any difference between the performance of the two sessions will strictly be down to the FW chipset or card used.

[Axeplyr]

Originally Posted by CrashAlpha

Thanks for the insights; I'm pretty happy with the way things are running now. It's time to close the box and start evaluating how this will work with Reaper 64!

I did install a TI-based firewire card, but I am interested in seeing whether the GB board does have any reliability issues with its FW. I have an M-Audio Audiophile FW - does anyone have any ideas on how to stress-test the MB ports vs the add-on card?

It's been awhile; how's this puppy working for you?

[CrashAlpha]

I guess it's time for a report!

I just finished installing Reaper - since this is a work PC (software development, DB architecture) my priorities were there. I also had trouble transferring my REAPER install from my Vista 32 bit PC - probably had to do with rights issues for the INI files. I just copied over files selectivly. I won't be putting Reaper through it's paces until later this week, and will get back on that.

I had Firewire-device problems that I initially blamed on the Mobo FW, and switched to the PCI FW card but there was no love. It turned out the fault is M-Audio's - their products don't "go to sleep" and therefore cause stalls when you get back to your PC: the screen stays black, the keyboard/mouse is unresponsive, and if you give it enough time the you will get the BSOD's with a DRIVER_POWER_STATE_FAILURE. M-Audio is aware of the problem, and kind-of catagorizes this under "it's not a bug, it's a feature". The official solution is to never put the PC to sleep, or power your problem M-Audio devices up and down as needed. Forget this once and leave your PC unattended (as I have done repeatedly) then you get to stare at the pretty blue screen when you get back.

The Noctua CPU fan was loud for a "silent" solution - it turns out the BIOS should be explicitly set to use Voltage speed control for the CPU fan; the default "Auto" setting appeers to choose PWM and the Noctua just ran at a speed which was quite whiney. Changing the speed contol calmed the fan down as it should have, although the CPU temp went up 1 - 2 C. If I had known better, I would have left instruction asking the NCIX assembler to install the "low noise adapter" on the CPU fan (the "Ultra Low Noise Adapter" apparently can be problematic on GB boards, someone else will have to tell me whether it's a problem for this particular model). It's too late now, as the CPU fan is in place and my desire to mess around with the CPU and the MB is exactly minus eleven.

A friend of mine had two Seagate Barracudas on order for me, so I ended up using these as my D & E drives, not the WD Black Caviars. I accidentally plugged the Barracudas into the GSATA ports and had problems when recovering from sleep mode. Plugging into the good old SATA ports solved this problem. I would still go for the WD Blacks given the chance, though.

The 3-speed Antec fan that comes with the Antec case was set at Medium speed. This was unforgivably loud for a "silent" case. Setting the little, barely detectable, precariously-awkward-dangly-bits fan switch to "low" solved that problem. I think everyone in the house breathed a sigh of relief.

I am still experiencing problems with boot-up from cold power-down (i.e. not a restart, a full powerup from a PSU shutdown). This requires a reboot when you realise the machine won't ever start and don't get so much as a how-do-you-do or a BSOD. I haven't researched this.

The machine seems very happy with the Corsair RAM - Windows Experience Index 7.9) although a motherboard "green LED" light indicates a "slight overvoltage" condition. No idea what that means, but it sounds like if you need some extra voltage, I have some to spare.

I had some trouble with Windows getting the ASUS/NVidia card to set the proper resolution on my 2nd Gateway monitor, but I blame this on Gateway whom I hate with a passion nearly equal to that of Acer (and now, M-Audio).

I wanted to reduce the bloat of the machine, but I need to work too. So - lightweight antivirus/malware/spam was in order, and any clunky stuff would be installed on Virtual Machines designated as Virtual Work PC's. Having suffered through Norton's 360's bloated vision of PC performace for years, I first tried Microsoft Security Essentials, which displayed the surprising behaviour of blocking downloads from Microsoft (what does that say?) I went with a trial of ESET Smart Security. Their antispam solution isn't very robust, all else seems fine. As for the VM, Microsoft's own Virtual PC wouldn't install properly - this could have been the fault of Security Essentials but I quit in disgust and went with VMWare's free VM Player. All is well so far.

The system is tucked away now and pretty quiet, I ran some stress tests and the CPU stays cool enough. Next report: making music!

[Axeplyr]

Thanks for that - I'm mulling over a replacement pc, you experience has been really valuable!

[d. gauss]

can i just buy this for $799 and add a firewire card?

http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/239518

[CrashAlpha]

Originally Posted by d. gauss

can i just buy this for $799 and add a firewire card?

http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/239518

Dude, you're *SO* last year! This shiny box became an overpriced dinosaur as I was carrying the shipping box to the garbage can.

Seriously though, I've had 2 HP's and an Acer, and for once I wanted a PC which I knew the pedigree of the components; when each of these former HP's and the Acer hiccupped or blew it was always irreversible damage with expensive proprietary parts (or so HP/Acer said).

So, I went another route to see if I liked it any better. Surprisingly, it's been fun and worthwhile.

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by CrashAlpha

*SO* last year! This shiny box became an overpriced dinosaur as I was carrying the shipping box to the garbage can.

last year? it's an intel I7 sandy bridge 2600 system for $800 bucks. i'm not sure you could even build one for this cheap. that's why i asked. add a better power supply and it might be decent?

Processor & Memory:

* Intel® Core*™ i7-2600 3.4GHz Processor
* 8MB Cache
* 8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM memory 4 DIMMS

Drives:

* 1.5TB (7,200RPM) SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
* LightScribe 16x max DVD±R/RW SuperMulti drive

Graphics & Video:

* 1GB ATI Radeon 5450 Graphics (DVI, HDMI)

Communications:

* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit LAN

Audio:

* Integrated 7.1 channel capable sound w/ front audio ports

Keyboard & Mouse:

* HP USB Keyboard
* HP Optical Mouse

Expandability (Total Slots):

* HP Pocket Media Drive Bay
* Total memory slots: 4 DIMMS
* 1x PCIe x16
* 2x MiniCard
* 3x PCIe x1

Ports:

* Front headphone and mic ports
* 6x USB 2.0 ports (2 Front, 4 Back)
* 1x 15-in-1 Digital Media Card Reader
* 1x Line-in (front)

Operating System:

* Microsoft® Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)

Additional Software:

* Norton Internet Security 2011 - 15 month

Additional Information:

* 2-Year Limited Warranty
* CPU Dimensions: 16.85" D x 7.05" W x 15.79" H
* Power Supply: 300W

[CrashAlpha]

Originally Posted by d. gauss

last year? it's an intel I7 sandy bridge 2600 system for $800 bucks. i'm not sure you could even build one for this cheap. that's why i asked. add a better power supply and it might be decent?

Sorry, I meant MY system was so last year.

Without question you can buy one off the shelf a few months later and I'm 99% sure you can buy something that you wouldn't be able to immediately distinguish from my system. I built this when I saw Best Buy HP/Gateway/Acer PC's with comparable features for $1500.

I don't know about swapping the PSU unless you don't mind voiding the warranty.

I put in the "best of breed" for music purposes - I wasn't comparing this PC to shelf PC's but rather the purpose-built DAW units you can buy. The problem with these units is that if you use them to do ANYTHING else, your support response is typically, yeah - but this is amusic PC. Don't expect to browse the internet!

So, I wanted a PC that had neither the limitations of the purpose-built DAWs nor the bloatware and (apparently) flimsier components used in name brands. But - liek I said - I'm not convinced most users would see the difference between "yours" and mine. I'll let the REAL experts speak....

[JGrabowMST]

I would not power that system with a 300W power supply. 400W minimum.

Norton AntiVirus, well, it's terrible. I work at a computer shop, we stopped selling.

Large system drive? Fragmentation city, you'll also end up storing everything on it, which will cause everything to slow down.

It's not worth $800 for audio work without a few changes, so I would think twice about it.

Even for the price, factor in what you change, and are you still beating the price of doing it yourself? Flexibility of the BIOS, which is decreasingly important...

It depends, will you really use the power of the i7, or would you get more use out of an i5 platform?

[d. gauss]

crazy 12 hour sale, bought this instead for 500 bucks shipped (intend to replace crappy pwr supply):

HP Pavilion Elite HPE-560z PC
• Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
• AMD Phenom(TM) II X6 1045T six-core processor [2.7GHz, 3MB L2 + 6MB L3 shared, up to 4000MHz]
• 8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [4 DIMMs]
• 1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
• No additional office software
• 1GB DDR3 ATI Radeon HD 5450 [DVI, HDMI, VGA adapter]
• LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
• Integrated Ethernet port, No wireless LAN
• 15-in-1 memory card reader, 1 USB, 1394, audio
• HP USB keyboard and optical mouse

[CrashAlpha]

The fact is, though, if price is your primary concern then you either have a tight budget, or frankly having a PC that is devoted to giving you the best DAW experience isn't your number one priority.

As I said, this project was started in order to create a machine that could compete with the "pro" DAW PC's out there, and what it would take to do it. I've bought enough brand name PC's and gave up on buildin my own in the 90's because at the time Dell was putting together quality PC's with incredible warranty coverage. But then again, in those days I was spending $5000 a PC.

Since then I got all cynical and just went to Future Shop or Best Buy and bought stuff off the shelf. After three such PC's I can tell you I'm not likely to do that again.

I haven't used a fraction of my PC's power, so all's going well right now. Chances are that our friend is going to feel the same way for the first year - because if he had really heavy projects he wouldn't be bargain hunting. In a year, he can decide if the money was well spent, in a year and a half he might start getting frustrated and in two years, he'll find another $500 PC. I certainly won't rain on his parade...

But PLEASE don't use Norton security products - this will (I'm not kidding) completely cancel out any performance gain you got from upgrading your PC. I'm not kidding - I have Norton security on an office network and it is the single biggest factor in terms of the horrid performance of the workstations.

[CrashAlpha]

BTW - I think one of the reasons that I am so happy is that I'm really, really careful about what I install on this PC. I got VMWare player (free) and created a virtual PC for me to install trial software, or anything that I knew would slow my machine down or chew up memory (iTunes, anything by Adobe, etc)(SQL Server).

I'm sure that's one reason why I'm so happy.

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by CrashAlpha

Chances are that our friend is going to feel the same way for the first year - because if he had really heavy projects he wouldn't be bargain hunting. In a year, he can decide if the money was well spent, in a year and a half he might start getting frustrated and in two years, he'll find another $500 PC. I certainly won't rain on his parade...

i just hate spending money on obsolescence, so the less i can spend on a computer to get the job done, the better.

(fwiw, my current reaper pc is a dell dimension p4 2.66 from 2002! i paid 600 dollars for it (again through a crazy internet sale when the going price was 1200 or so).

can't say it was always smooth going, but over the last 9 years, without always having a computer to pay off, i was able to purchase quite a bit of front end recording gear that holds its resale value (API, Neve, etc.)

100's of songs and 10 or 11 released albums later, i am now finally at the point where the tired ole p4 doesn't do what i need it to do. given that the benchmark on my current CPU is 335 and the one i just bought is 5,119, i hope i'll have some wiggle room

bottom line is i needed a PC now, and didn't want to invest too heavily upfront as light peak is just around the corner and THAT (if it works), is gonna change everything

[CrashAlpha]

I remember when I bought my first synth - a Roland JX3P - someone told me, if obsolescence bothers you, find a career that doesn't involve electronics. (oops, did I just date myself?)

I have other non-music needs that require the extra grunt my machine has got, but that's another story.

I think that your productivity shows that you know what you're doing, and what to look for. Like I said, I'm sure you'll enjoy your new PC!

[d. gauss]

Originally Posted by CrashAlpha

I remember when I bought my first synth - a Roland JX3P - someone told me, if obsolescence bothers you, find a career that doesn't involve electronics. (oops, did I just date myself?)

ha ha! yes, but now it is vintage. i.e. i paid for this computer by selling off an ancient oberheim dx drum machine

[CrashAlpha]

If only i had anything remotely resembling the ability to sell anything, I'm sure I'd be spending less money on the new toys I keep acquiring!

If only there would be a sudden nostalgia for JX3P's and Yamaha RX11's....

[nyaben]

gauss, where'd you find the hp? I desperately need to upgrade my system and that sounds like a steal. I know you just got it recently...have you tried doing any recording or mixing yet?