Clicks and pops when using external audio programs with reaper

[Djent]

I'm using reaper to host a guitar amp sim and am plugged in using an avid fast track solo.

I want to be able to use audacity to play a song while I'm running the amp sim in reaper, or guitar pro which I'll often play along to a tab when learning a song, however when doing this it causes pops and clicks in my headphones with both programs.

I tried setting the buffer size high and low in the fast track's control panel but that didn't help, I also tried stuffing around with the buffers in reaper but nothing changed it. I'm not sure what's causing this.. I haven't tried loading a song directly into reaper to use instead of using audacity because that will clutter my music library with peaks files, and not to mention this won't allow me to use guitar pro..

Any ideas?

running 8gb of ram, i5 6600, gtx 1060 btw.

[serr]

If I understand the goal...
You want to run two separate DAW apps:
Audacity to host pre recorded material with the block size (I/O buffer) set high for low processing overhead.
Then Reaper with a low block size for live performance.

Yes?

That's intuitive on the surface but I'm not sure if you can get away with that or not. Specifically running two DAW apps independently with their own block size values.

Someone will hopefully chime in and set that straight if you actually can!

If you are up against the wall and can't run the whole project in Reaper with a low enough block size to perform/record the guitar sim, glue/freeze the project tracks to stems so you can turn off those plugins and free up processing.

[Djent]

I should mention I'm not actually trying to record anything, but yes that is basically what i'm trying to do: play a song and play over it live. I could try just playing the music in media player or something but I do like having the waveform up, but still this won't solve the issue with guitar pro clicking and popping also.

[kenm]

Originally Posted by Djent

I should mention I'm not actually trying to record anything, but yes that is basically what i'm trying to do: play a song and play over it live. I could try just playing the music in media player or something but I do like having the waveform up, but still this won't solve the issue with guitar pro clicking and popping also.

Can't you just add the music to a Reaper track and play it back in Reaper? If you increase the height of the track you can see the waveform of the music track.

Hope this helps,
Ken

[serr]

Originally Posted by Djent

I should mention I'm not actually trying to record anything, but yes that is basically what i'm trying to do: play a song and play over it live. I could try just playing the music in media player or something but I do like having the waveform up, but still this won't solve the issue with guitar pro clicking and popping also.

Playing the backing track back directly in Reaper would be the least taxing on the system. There's a logic in trying a separate app but it would be more CPU use than just using Reaper.

So that leads to perhaps some system optimization for the live sound task (playing through the amp sim). And note that running live audio is still not just SOP.

That leads to...
What are your system specs, audio interface, and so forth.
What sample rate are you running at? (Hint: 48k is usually the sweet spot for live work.)
What block size? Controlling that from Reaper or another app?

[Djent]

I'm using a sample rate of 44100 in audacity, reaper and in the fast track control panel as that's what it was by default. The block size in reaper is the default 256 I believe (if it's the block size under the device tab i'm supposed to be looking at).

Another thing I noticed is that if i just play the music through windows media player it has the same issue, so i'm not sure if that could be an issue of sample rates clashing or something similar.

[serr]

Approach this from needing the live sound capability working first.

I suggest posting some screen shots of your Preferences/Audio/Device page in case there is any miscommunication over settings.

A 256 sample block size sounds high for live work to begin with.
Is this the lowest value you could use without dropouts (where the clicks and pops come from when the system struggles)? It sounds like you may have not realized the importance of this control and may simply have not dialed your system latency in correctly. Your computer system should be more than powerful enough for live work within reason. You running Mac or Windows OS? SSD?

Are you controlling this from Reaper (box next to block size ticked and the value in samples entered) or some other control panel app (untick the box in Reaper to disable the control and ignore any value entered)?

I suggest shaking down the rig for the live work first.
- Try 48k
- Try both sample rate control and block size control from Reaper first.
- Try both sample rate control and block size control from your OS audio control panel or a proprietary control panel if your interface happens to have that if control from Reaper was a problem.

This is the main part. Once live sound with the guitar sim is working more properly, play back the reference track from Reaper. Sample rate convert it if needed (ex. 44.1k to 48k if you end up working at 48k for live work) to eliminate any conversions on the fly which can use up processing power quickly.

[Djent]

Windows 10 on an SSD.

I tried 48k but it just changes the pitch of music in audacity due to it being a different sample rate, but still clicks and pops i don't think that's going to help very much.

Here are my settings:

https://imgur.com/a/SEJXjbN

Adjusting the block size did nothing also, but i tried lowering it.

[serr]

I still really recommend working on the live sound part with Reaper first and not introducing the variable of a 2nd audio app. (FYI if you "trick" an audio app into running at a different sample rate than it thinks it's set to via another audio app or clock setting, it follows to play at the wrong speed. Operator error there. Which is why I'm suggesting to start with Reaper first and only go more complex if necessary.)

You probably have a driver conflict with your audio interface or there may be limited allowed settings for Windows. One of the Windows guys will have to jump in here.

I still suggest shaking down Reaper first and only consider additional audio apps when Reaper has been configured properly and behaving. If you start with one thing at a time, you'll get there. You haven't mentioned specifically if the system runs error free with just Reaper and the amp sim but only has issues when you introduce the additional audio app.

[Djent]

Yes it's fine in reaper, no audio problems if I load the track directly in, only with external programs.

[serr]

Originally Posted by Djent

Yes it's fine in reaper, no audio problems if I load the track directly in, only with external programs.

Aha! Very good.

The issue is likely some kind of conflict between the audio apps with conflicting sample rate or block size requests.

You may discover that an order of operations is important when using multiple audio apps together. One hard fast part is your connected audio interface must be told to use the same sample rate and block size.

I find audio apps like media players and internet browsers in general need to be relaunched whenever you change audio settings. Keep this note in mind.


I'd get a little more comfortable and familiar with the controls in Reaper too. Play with the different sample rates and run some loopback tests to see what your actual latency is at different settings. You kind of want to know what your headroom is and have the opportunity to run with the most efficient settings for lowest latency. Play with the block size control. You should be able to literally dial your latency back and forth. (Not hearing anything change for example, would indicate something not working or communicating properly.)


Hope this helps!

[kenm]

Originally Posted by serr

Aha! Very good.

The issue is likely some kind of conflict between the audio apps with conflicting sample rate or block size requests.

You may discover that an order of operations is important when using multiple audio apps together. One hard fast part is your connected audio interface must be told to use the same sample rate and block size.

I find audio apps like media players and internet browsers in general need to be relaunched whenever you change audio settings. Keep this note in mind.


I'd get a little more comfortable and familiar with the controls in Reaper too. Play with the different sample rates and run some loopback tests to see what your actual latency is at different settings. You kind of want to know what your headroom is and have the opportunity to run with the most efficient settings for lowest latency. Play with the block size control. You should be able to literally dial your latency back and forth. (Not hearing anything change for example, would indicate something not working or communicating properly.)


Hope this helps!

Djent,

I just re-read through this post and I can see one potential issue that hasn't been raised. Audacity, out-of-the-box, doesn't support ASIO but Reaper does. In my experience having an app accessing an audio interface with WDM/WASAPI and another accessing it with ASIO is a recipe for trouble. Since ASIO bypasses everything but the kernel streaming API, it can and will make settings changes on the fly without telling the OS, so the WDM/WASPI drivers have no way of knowing about the changes.

As serr has stated, I suspect a sample rate and/or buffer setting issue.

Hope this helps,
Ken

[dug dog]

Originally Posted by Djent

I haven't tried loading a song directly into reaper to use instead of using audacity because that will clutter my music library with peaks files

In preferences> General> Paths you can instruct Reaper to store your peak files to a different location.

Unfortunately, this doesn't help with the Guitar Pro end of things. Will Guitar Pro render a WAV or MP3 file?

[Djent]

Ok, so I just ended up using VST Host instead of reaper for this, and the problem is gone.

Thanks nonetheless for the replies all.