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Old 04-06-2018, 06:51 PM   #1
SOgNARd=oubt
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Default clear tcp.* does not seem to clear all tcp.recarm parameters?

Hello,
I am working on a theme while using the Walter Themer's Guide as an instruction manual. I started with a blank slate text file and added a "clear tcp.*" command.

I am slowly assembling a rtconfig file, and right now the file has a minimum of lines so I think I understand what each line is doing.

I thought I was making good progress but have a nagging issue with the record arm button disappearing at some minimum tcp height, but that action isn't coded in my rtconfig.text The rest of my buttons stay share I expect them to. It is just the record arm button that disappears.

Is there some other place to look for some code that hasn't been cleared by the clear tcp. command?

Thank you.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:04 PM   #2
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I just stunbled on the White Tie article about FLOW and read through it.

My rtconfig doesn't have any FLOW commands in it but it sure looks like my Theme has some tcp characteristics that shuffle and or hide elements in a FLOW-like manner.

I guess maybe I am looking for a way to lock down the elements so they do not FLOW?

Any tips?

Thank you.
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOgNARd=oubt View Post
I just stunbled on the White Tie article about FLOW and read through it.

My rtconfig doesn't have any FLOW commands in it but it sure looks like my Theme has some tcp characteristics that shuffle and or hide elements in a FLOW-like manner.

I guess maybe I am looking for a way to lock down the elements so they do not FLOW?

Any tips?

Thank you.
If you read a bit further in the guide
it will go on to tell you that without specific
commands, the 'default_rules.txt' file will take
precedence over rtconfig. Nevermind this
file, however, as you plan on writing
a complete rtconfig. Reading further in
the guide, you will find a command that
tells REAPER not to draw an element at
all, the syntax is set tcp.recarm [0]
of course this works on most elements.
Another thing to be aware of is that
the flow command is not a command.
It is a macro. It has nothing to do
with WALTER or your theme. It only
applies to the default 5 theme. Beyond
WALTER are macros, variables,
preprocessors, coordinate lists, etc.,
that can be used to minimize the
workload of themebuilding, editing,
altering, etc. and minimize data
redundancy and therefore data footprint,
and maximize efficiency and load time.
As WT said in the guide, it is best to
read the entire guide before building
a theme, I would say at least skim it
so it's concepts are not foreign, and
also the SDK, so that you at least
know where to look when your stumped.
there is also the 'Power of pink'
document that you will need, and more
like the open office document that
calculates track tinting...and the list
goes on, but for starters, I would say
grab a theme close to what you want
from the stash, dissect it, and refer
to the SDK and WALTER user guide for
every little thing you don't know.

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Old 04-07-2018, 05:51 AM   #4
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Thank you for the information.

I had looked in my REAPER install for the default_layouts.txt that is mentioned in the walther_themers_guide. I am running REAPER v 5.0 and I can not find a default_layouts.txt in Reaper's directories or anywhere else on my Windows 7 install.


After reading your post I searched through the walther_themers_guide for the default_rules.txt that you suggested, but can not find that it is mentioned in the guide.

The info in the guide about default layouts made me think there was some higher level control, such as default layouts, that I had not found yet, but I was confused by not finding the default_layouts.txt files.

I will read the guide further. I had read about the command to not draw an element and am looking forward to using that to leave some elements out of my tcp in certain circumstances.


I have tried hacking themes etc. for a couple years to gain some familiarity with Reapers theme structure, and now I am trying to start from scratch and get a handle on this stuff. Right now I will be satisfied if I can make a static tcp design that does not shuffle when I collapse the size.

Presently, the recarm button disappears and or starts squirming around depending on how I stretch the tcp.

Here are some examples of what is happening:



Last edited by SOgNARd=oubt; 04-07-2018 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOgNARd=oubt View Post
I am slowly assembling a rtconfig file, and right now the file has a minimum of lines so I think I understand what each line is doing.
YES. YESYESYES.
Good man. This is the perfect way to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOgNARd=oubt View Post
Is there some other place to look for some code that hasn't been cleared by the clear tcp. command?
Indeed there is, the clear.tcp command is far less powerful than one would intuitively expect - the WALTER of an entire fallback theme is takes over for any commands you don't override yourself.

Don't over think this, just read the 'Always' Comparisons section on p21 of the walter guide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOgNARd=oubt View Post
I guess maybe I am looking for a way to lock down the elements so they do not FLOW?
Flow are some macros that make editing the default 5 theme easy for users who don't want to get into learning WALTER. If you're making your own theme and you don't want flow then you don't need to even think about it.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:10 AM   #6
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Thank you for the help.

I am off to read about Always comparisons!

Thank you.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:13 AM   #7
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If your WALTER is very simple, and yet you are seeing complex behaviour, stick ?1 at the beginning.

Code:
set mcp.recarm [0 177 20 20 0 1.0 0 1.0]
would be weird, because REAPER doesn't take your code seriously unless there's some kind of comparison in it.

Code:
set mcp.recarm ?1 [0 177 20 20 0 1.0 0 1.0]
? before a number asks whether that number isn't 0
1 means 1
so ?1 means 'yes, always'

... and that's enough to tell REAPER to stop trying to be helpful (which, believe it or not, is what you're seeing) and let you take care of things from scratch.

I have advocated in the past for some manner of 'clear walter.*' command would just absolutely nuke everything, but for now you'll have to throw in the occasional ?1.

As your WALTER gets more complex, you'll find you can get rid of your ?1 entries.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:41 AM   #8
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Thank you.

I added a h>0 tag to the set tcp.recarm and set tcp.meter commands and now the symbols stay where I put them.

The situation where a track with an armed record arm button will not collapse persists so I am still trying to learn the solution to that.

Thank you!!!

edit to add: I just tried all the stock REAPER themes and now realize that all of them have the same characteristic. When record is armed the track expands in height to show the contents of the tcp.

Perhaps this can not be overridden?

.

Last edited by SOgNARd=oubt; 04-07-2018 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOgNARd=oubt View Post
When record is armed the track expands in height to show the contents of the tcp.

Perhaps this can not be overridden?
WALTER : A themer’s guide p35-36. TCP heights section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WALTER
The tcp_heights gives you control over the height your TCP track takes in various circumstances

tcp_heights a b c d

The four values are:
a : Supercollapsed - the height of any track that is inside a folder, when the foldercomp button has been pressed twice
b : Collapsed - the height of any track that is inside a folder, when the foldercomp button
has been pressed once
c : Small - one size above minimum size when doing cntrl+shift+up
d : Recarm - height of a record armed track
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:21 AM   #10
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Thank you for bringing that excerpt to my attention.

Thank you very much for the help.
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Old 04-07-2018, 01:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOgNARd=oubt View Post
I just tried all the stock REAPER themes and now realize that all of them have the same characteristic. When record is armed the track expands in height to show the contents of the tcp.

Perhaps this can not be overridden?
Sure it can; its just not a theme thing, its a user preference that applies to any theme. Its a bit tucked away though...

Options > Preference > Audio > Recording > [ ] Always show full track control panel on armed tracks.
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Old 04-08-2018, 05:39 AM   #12
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Thank you.

I have utilized both suggestions and everything is working as I had hoped.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOgNARd=oubt View Post
Thank you.

I have utilized both suggestions and everything is working as I had hoped.
Awesome. I did not see in your first
post about the recarm height, I can see
where that would be confusing if one
was not aware. I am so glad WT chimed
in...as I only visit a couple times
a week and....he is the pro.
And I am sorry you went looking for
default rules.txt,which is there,
juat not where you think.
I thought I made clear to nevermind
that file but to just be aware. Also just wanted to say that I was not endorsing
merely hacking other's themes to learn, but to use them
as a reference if there
is something you cannot find a clear
example of in the sdk or guide, and because, sometimes ..especially in the
sdk...things can be a little unclear
and to see them already in action
is a much easier way for a beginner to
learn, when used in tandem with
the literature. Can't wait to see the theme.
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