Linux NATIVE

[paulheu]

Originally Posted by fladd

What an awesome stunt you just did!

I know.. ain't it cool?!

1. there's just not enough people wanting a Linux version and be willing to pay for it. Seeing the minute market share Linux has in general would seem enough to justify this suggestion. The handful of Linux fans here would not be an accurate representation of the real world potential userbase.

2. and 6. tie together really.
Your 'counterargument' on 6. is laughable at best.. You can try and spin it as you like but it only makes you look more silly really. You know perfectly well what my intention there is and if you don't you have deeper issues to deal with..

3. Same thing, nice spin but obviously the intent here was to say that for developers there's a lot more work to make things look, work and play at the same level as when developing for Windows. I'm not saying that when using Linux your work would be of less quality.

4.
What is it you're not getting here? Linux is a fragmented landscape and the same tools and utilities may not even work the same way across distros.



What you seem to be doing (IMO) is trying very hard to force a round peg through a square hole. Linux is not and has never been designed or intended for professional audio work and as such the available implementation lacks severely due to under development. This alone would bring a whole boatload of extra work for a developer and with the minute market share that is an investment which will never recoup and thus make no sense in commercial way.

If you feel the market is there and viable, I would suggest starting a funding project. I'm sure if you can provide upfront compensation the incentive to do what you would like to see happen would be there for the development team.

We can argue this forever obviously so let's just agree to not agree here and move on though.. This whole thing is getting rather silly and pointless besides being a cute time waster.

[babag]

regardless of the other arguments, i think the paying-user argument for a linux release is somewhat moot because of the reaper license itself. doesn't the reaper license allow a single user to use a reaper installation on any platform as long as it's the licensed user? i have a dual boot system between windows and osx. i use each for different purposes and i have reaper installed on each partition. if reaper was to become supported on linux i'd likely have a linux partition as well. i'd, therefore, download all three versions. which one would i be considered a paying-user for?

BabaG

[Lazarus]

@paulheu: Re fragmentation, the way Tracktion and Bitwig address it is by only supporting Ubuntu. With Bitwig people then package it for other distros and maybe they do for Tracktion as well, I don't know. This is a sensible plan imo and kills the fragmentation argument completely.

And Linux doesn't get broken every second point release like OSX does with Apple.

Re "tiny" market. There are only roughly half the amount of Linux users as Mac users and although Mac users are disproportionately represented in the audio world there are a lot more commercial sequencers available for OSX (think Android/iOS marketplace for what saturation can do to sales). Reaper can geek out with the Linux-minded too, having 3 scripting languages with a C++ API, JS plugins, skinning etc. So it's arguably a more suitable product for that market than any other one and these advantages, coupled with a lack of market saturation and Justin's reputation as l33t horseman of the apocolypse could make for surprisingly large market share.

The fact that Renoise has existed for so long on Linux tells us something - and it only has one scripting language! Bitwig and Harrison going forth too - are these guys all nuts?

The facts point towards Linux being a viable platform, you might not like that but it is what it is. It's not your OS of choice, but if it was you would want Reaper on it.

[paulheu]

As far as me not liking or using Linux, I never said that and actually it runs my home network in multiple ways. Linux is real good for certain purposes.

Current numbers put Linux at around 1.5% market share overall with OSX 10.9 and 10.10 at around 5.2% so claiming half of what OSX has is rather optimistic. Add the given that of that 1.5% the number of possible targets for Reaper is probably in the single digits as well we're well below what would be a viable number.

I am not sure whether the geek factor plays in to this much. I'm think the vast majority of users don't care for that all that much, if at all. While there may be more in the Linux market, that would still be a very, very small number.

To me it seems a number of people here tend to put too much weight on the amount of posts/threads/people asking about this here. In the real world Linux is really not relevant in the desktop environment and even less so in the pro audio segment of that environment. It certainly will not be an option which would create enough revenue for Cocko's to assign the required resources and investment to a full on port.

That won't stop people from asking about it but IMO that is the bottom line.

[fladd]

Originally Posted by paulheu

As far as me not liking or using Linux, I never said that and actually it runs my home network in multiple ways. Linux is real good for certain purposes.

Current numbers put Linux at around 1.5% market share overall with OSX 10.9 and 10.10 at around 5.2% so claiming half of what OSX has is rather optimistic. Add the given that of that 1.5% the number of possible targets for Reaper is probably in the single digits as well we're well below what would be a viable number.

I am not sure whether the geek factor plays in to this much. I'm think the vast majority of users don't care for that all that much, if at all. While there may be more in the Linux market, that would still be a very, very small number.

To me it seems a number of people here tend to put too much weight on the amount of posts/threads/people asking about this here. In the real world Linux is really not relevant in the desktop environment and even less so in the pro audio segment of that environment. It certainly will not be an option which would create enough revenue for Cocko's to assign the required resources and investment to a full on port.

That won't stop people from asking about it but IMO that is the bottom line.

Well, apparently Linux is relevant to some users, namely those who run it on the desktop. And even if your subjective view on this differs, for those people Linux is the better desktop OS. You cannot discuss this away with whatever "facts" apply to the "average" user.

You main point is based on the idea that a Linux version would only happen if Justin will earn a lot of money with it.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe Justin does not do REAPER solely for the money? That his main interest might not be to maximize revenue? But the software itself? If we were talking about bringing Cubase to Linux, then yes, I would totally agree with you. Sternberg probably is mainly interested in being paid and the amount of work it would take to make Cubase Linux compatible would not justify what they will earn from the new users. But Cockos is not Steinberg. You might want to read up a bit on Justin's history and maybe things get a bit more clear.

Oh and concerning your last answer to me: I would highly appreciate it if you could stay on topic and NOT attack me personally!

[Lazarus]

Originally Posted by paulheu

As far as me not liking or using Linux, I never said that and actually it runs my home network in multiple ways. Linux is real good for certain purposes.

Current numbers put Linux at around 1.5% market share overall with OSX 10.9 and 10.10 at around 5.2% so claiming half of what OSX has is rather optimistic. Add the given that of that 1.5% the number of possible targets for Reaper is probably in the single digits as well we're well below what would be a viable number.

I am not sure whether the geek factor plays in to this much. I'm think the vast majority of users don't care for that all that much, if at all. While there may be more in the Linux market, that would still be a very, very small number.

To me it seems a number of people here tend to put too much weight on the amount of posts/threads/people asking about this here. In the real world Linux is really not relevant in the desktop environment and even less so in the pro audio segment of that environment. It certainly will not be an option which would create enough revenue for Cocko's to assign the required resources and investment to a full on port.

That won't stop people from asking about it but IMO that is the bottom line.

I'll give you kudos for dropping the fragmentation argument. Please consider that these same companies that so easily solved this problem might just know what they are doing in releasing their wares into what is almost a virgin market compared to Windows/OSX/Android/iOS. Market size isn't everything.

Aside from that you have made your opinion clear.

[paulheu]

Originally Posted by fladd

You main point is based on the idea that a Linux version would only happen if Justin will earn a lot of money with it.

Oh and concerning your last answer to me: I would highly appreciate it if you could stay on topic and NOT attack me personally!

My main point is that a Linux port will IMO most likely cost Cokos money as it won't sell well enough to recoup he investment required.

I'm also not sure where you see a personal attack. If anything, that is something I will stay away from in any way I can as I find that to be just silly and pointless. If it's the time waster remark, I was referring to the thread, not you and if you took it the wrong way an apology is in order..

[fladd]

Originally Posted by paulheu

My main point is that a Linux port will IMO most likely cost Cokos money as it won't sell well enough to recoup he investment required.

I'm also not sure where you see a personal attack. If anything, that is something I will stay away from in any way I can as I find that to be just silly and pointless. If it's the time waster remark, I was referring to the thread, not you and if you took it the wrong way an apology is in order..

Yes it sure costs effort, but maybe Cockos sees that this effort is worth it. And again, worth does not mean financially worth.

Regarding personal attack: I was referring to the me looking "even more" silly and having deeper issues part...
But yeah, let's just forget about this whole discussion. Justin is the one to decide if he sees fit in a Linux version, based on whatever he thinks the benefits will be.

[alexspetty]

+1 for Reaper on Linux

Is there any chance of a full release of this happening any time soon?

[sonnie]

Originally Posted by alexspetty

+1 for Reaper on Linux

Is there any chance of a full release of this happening any time soon?

I don't think so. He denied all requests until now.

But: When a major DAW will come to Linux, Reaper is the best hope we have. Because Justin does not think about the money first like all the others.

[DuX]

I've just read the news about Ardour 4 being released. http://www.kvraudio.com/news/ardour-...ows-beta-29637 I haven't used it before but from the screenshots it reminds me of Reaper a lot. New Ardour is also multiplatform now: for Linux, OS-X, and Windows. Ardour also supports VST, MIDI, ASIO and CoreAudio now, not just audio recording/playback and Jack, and there are over a thousand fixes in this release. This is rather good news, I think.

[Sexan]

I'll just leave this here :

and it has playlist.....

[mgraham]

Originally Posted by alextone

Carla, with several instances of Kontakt loaded, using the carla-bridge-win64 for each

Thank you for sharing this setup! I would love to set up something like this.

How do you interface Reaper to Carla? Does it appear as a VSTI in Reaper? Or do you route MIDI from Reaper to Carla and make Carla look like a hardware synth to Reaper? How does automation work?

[stumpbroke1]

Is it just me or does Reaper version 5 seem a bit more stable on Linux Wine than 4.xx did, or did I accidentally get something right...now if we could just get some hardware support, or then it may be the latest version of wine that has some updates that helped.

Still using Windows mainly, but after reading the Privacy agreement for windows 10(NO PRIVACY essentially) I'm starting to take Linux a lot more serious.

[kenz]

I think v5 might enable some settings from v4 by default, you can make v4 much smoother with these settings (most people only know about the latter, but the former helps tons).

In Preferences->Audio->Buffering:

Set Use new alternate worker thread scheduling (experimental, may use less CPU) <---- uses about half CPU on scheduling, with tons of tracks it's noticeable!

Unset Use native events for synchronizing (recommended).


Anyway I'm pretty happy with Reaper in WINE, works great for sound design, editing, composing or mastering (most VSTs work as well). I didn't try low latency with it, though. I reckon that's where native version would be superior in recording...

[Icchan]

Reaper on Linux is fine as long as you can find solid drivers for your audio interface and other hardware, which can be a pain in the ass in the case of more exotic hardware (Creamware PCI DSP platform).

And even in the case of more common hardware (E-MU audio interfaces).

[stumpbroke1]

kenz, Icchan thanks for the tips I'll try it the next chance I get.

[bbarton11]

Is there a definitive "how to" for installing Reaper on Linux Mint? I have WINE installed, do I use Reaper 32-bit or 64-bit? What else needs to be done?

Thanks!

[sonnie]

You have to install and setup WineAsio. Then use it as audio interface in Reaper.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by bbarton11

Is there a definitive "how to" for installing Reaper on Linux Mint? I have WINE installed, do I use Reaper 32-bit or 64-bit? What else needs to be done?

Thanks!

+1

-Michael

[kenz]

First get a linux distro with low latency/realtime kernel preferrably (or not, it's not such a big deal unless you want really low latencies). You can install such kernel on a distro without real-time kernel too, later. Just install the latest wine or wine-staging (currently 1.7.49), and copy/install reaper from Windows machine to the wine prefix (a wine prefix is sort of a directory tree that resembles one on Windows, so apps don't get confused). If you choose to double click install it in default wine prefix, that works too (but if you get to more advanced use, using different wine prefixes is a great way to 'separate' apps etc).

Anyway, in simplest case, after installing wine, double click on installer, install reaper, and launch REAPER. In Preferences->Media->Buffering, disable "Use Native Events for synchronizing".

For Audio device, you'll probably want to select WASAPI, or WaveOut if you really don't care about low latency. Note that for low-latency you need a bit more setup, with JACK and WineASIO, but then again you need this kind of setup on a Windows box as well (ASIO or ASIO4all)... even though WASAPI might provide adequate low latency operation. But if you use it mainly for mastering, sound design, non-live composing etc and not recording, then you're set without low latency.

For those without experience in Linux at all, you will have to get used to some things though, because Linux is UNIX so it's slightly different overall than Windows especially on filesystem. Mind you, it's a far better / more logical filesystem but well (without drive letters f.e.g), it does require you to get used to it. Can't help with that.

Don't forget that the "drive letters" in a Wine prefix are just symbolic links, one of the great things about UNIX. If you don't know what symbolic links are, they're just links to another folder/file anywhere, immensely useful and powerful (something that only Windows versions 7 and up started to have, before that only junctions were available in Microsoft OSes).

By the way if you have problems with the open source graphics drivers (which are kinda meh) and you have nvidia/amd card, just install the official ones, they offer really stable ones with detailed instructions how to install. (with nvidia ones, you can install them even from PPA, just google around, this isn't really the topic I guess)

[panomax]

Other than DAW, tools like Kontakt are also crucial.

[michael diemer]

Count me in as a Linux transplant. I use Zorin 9, which is the Linux OS most similar to Windows 7, and I love it. I'm still using W7 on my music rig, but I absolutely see Linux in my future there as well. As has been noted, Bitwig was designed to run on Linux, so there is precedence for a professional DAW which considers Linux worthy of their time. The difference maker may be Windows 10. Their new Privacy Policy is nothing short of shocking. Anyone who uses One Drive or Outlook from this point on is really playing with fire. I believe Linux will grow significantly as more people come to appreciate the scope of the changes in Microsoft. Their increasing intrusiveness and shameless monetizing will drive thousands to Linux, if not millions.

[todd_r]

http://www.askjf.com/index.php?q=3268s

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by todd_r

http://www.askjf.com/index.php?q=3268s

I hope that is what it sounds like.

I think I am done with windows.

[clepsydrae]

http://www.askjf.com/index.php?q=3268s

Oh my lord!

[sonnie]

I didn't get it: Is this positive?
If yes: I'll burn my Windows copies instantly after the linux native release is there.

[clepsydrae]

Originally Posted by sonnie

I didn't get it: Is this positive?
If yes: I'll burn my Windows copies instantly after the linux native release is there.

It's a licecap/one-line-summary of development happening on linux for reaper... No idea if it means a native version is imminent or 15 years out or what, but I'm thrilled just to know that work is being done. In other words: the dream lives on!

[New Aquarius]

I'm trying to stay cool about this.

I feel like John Cusack in High Fidelity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYwMZs6eSqo

[Justin]

Hah don't get your hopes up, but maybe in a few more years

The next builds I post, though, will likely be a lot more usable. Maybe this month, or October.

[innuendo]

Originally Posted by Justin

Hah don't get your hopes up, but maybe in a few more years

The next builds I post, though, will likely be a lot more usable. Maybe this month, or October.

Wow! Exciting!!! Linux is the future. I mean, as soon as it gets stable... But exciting anyway.
Pretty please, don't do the mixing through jack... Jack is annoyingly buggy.

Funny to see Justin use the evaluation copy of Reaper BTW :-D

[clepsydrae]

Originally Posted by innuendo

Linux is the future. I mean, as soon as it gets stable...

Any day now. :-)

Funny to see Justin use the evaluation copy of Reaper BTW :-D

What, you expect him to pay for his own software?? :-)

And: too late, hopes are way up. No pressure, of course. Hopes will do that.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Justin

The next builds I post, though, will likely be a lot more usable. Maybe this month, or October.

Great !!!

Any idea about usability of Windows Plugins (free and things like NI products). I read that WineLib should be able to allow for doing this decently. AFAIK Muse "Receptor" works really good this way.

-Michael

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by clepsydrae

It's a licecap/one-line-summary of development happening on linux for reaper... No idea if it means a native version is imminent or 15 years out or what, but I'm thrilled just to know that work is being done. In other words: the dream lives on!

Ahhhh...I did't see the licecap before (blocked). All I have to say is: !!!

edit: (we should all calm down)

[ChunkyBustout]

It still feels like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Gromit]

Originally Posted by Icchan

Reaper on Linux is fine as long as you can find solid drivers for your audio interface and other hardware, which can be a pain in the ass in the case of more exotic hardware (Creamware PCI DSP platform).

And even in the case of more common hardware (E-MU audio interfaces).

I'm quite lucky in that respect. My audio interface (a fairly humble M-Audio M-Track plus) works faultlessly under Ubuntu Studio 14.04 without any driver installation at all. The same was true of my previous focusrite interface, wheich never worked reliably in Windows.

[kindafishy]

Nice. As long as my interface works well and all my windows VSTs load (including those that use ilok??), I would immediately drop windows and switch to linux.

REAPER is the only software that I use that is keeping me on Windows.

[New Aquarius]

Originally Posted by Gromit

I'm quite lucky in that respect. My audio interface (a fairly humble M-Audio M-Track plus) works faultlessly under Ubuntu Studio 14.04 without any driver installation at all. The same was true of my previous focusrite interface, wheich never worked reliably in Windows.

I'm glad I still have my Echo Layla 3g. Complete support.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Great !!!

Any idea about usability of Windows Plugins (free and things like NI products). I read that WineLib should be able to allow for doing this decently. AFAIK Muse "Receptor" works really good this way.

-Michael

Of course, if you're using winelib, why not just use wine w/ the Windows REAPER?

[innuendo]

Originally Posted by Justin

Of course, if you're using winelib, why not just use wine w/ the Windows REAPER?

In my experiments, reaper had random crashes in wine (particularly with larger projects), even after a lot of mingling with all kinds of patches to wine. So the only workable solution to run windows plugins was a native host and plugins in wine. I used a software named Carla for that and it was useable but unfortunately far from bug-free or full-featured. The wine-to-native bridge seems ridiculously difficult to implement but it seems Carla overall is getting this right.