Sound Card Only Works With Onboard Audio Enabled??

[Hwangman]

I'm using a Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2ZS. Windows XP (32-bit), SP3, 4GB RAM.

I'm looking to improve my sound card performance and cut down on some popping i've been hearing on my last few recorded tracks. After some reading via Google, it looks like onboard audio should always be disabled when using a dedicated sound card. Well, mine has always been enabled. I tried disabling it the other night and lost all sound. I eventually had to uninstall all drivers for my sound card and start from scratch. Even after disabling onboard audio and reinstalling my Creative drivers, sound will NOT play from my speakers unless onboard audio is enabled in my BIOS. This appears to be the exact opposite of how it should work. Anyone have any ideas?

[Ollie]

What is the exact make/model of your mainboard?

[Hwangman]

Hey buddy.

Seems you're the only one who ever responds to me! =)

My mobo is an ASRock A780FullDisplayPort (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157127).

[Ollie]

Coincidence...and I know your issue already a bit.

Alas nothing on Google. I found something in the manual: The setting for the onboard HD audio has 3 positions, on, off and auto. In 'auto' mode, it's supposed to disable the onboard sound automatically when you insert a soundcard. Never seen that before. Maybe something is wrong in this (what is your BIOS version? The latest is 1.70 from 3/2009) area. Did you try 'auto' already? Maybe that works better.

Other than that, the only things I can suggest is

- try the Soundblaster in the other PCI slot (first with onboard still enabled to see if the crackling still
- ditch the X-fi and use the onboard chip instead.
- contact ASRock support. Maybe this is a yet unknown issue with that board you stumbled upon, but maybe you're lucky and they know about that.

Sorry, I wish I could help you better, this sort of issue is generally ugly (often even trying to get only one soundcard glitch-free is hard). Really bad that we don't even know if disabling the onboard sound is worth the hassle.

[Hwangman]

Sorry for not responding sooner...was out of town.

I think i tried the "auto" option during my original debacle and it did nothing. Oh well.

At this point, i'm thinking of scrapping the Soundblaster altogether. Maybe i'm just throwing too much data at it? It wasn't designed for this kind of use, and even though it's been reliable in the past, i can't make any sort of progress when every damn track i record has a 50/50 shot of being recorded w/crackling and popping. I'm thinking of putting the EMU back in and using that for all MIDI and audio, or trying to do all audio via Toneport.

[Hwangman]

The saga continues...i reinstalled the EMU 0404, and as soon as i rebooted, NO AUDIO. Wonderful! Argh!

I disabled the EMU and uninstalled the DSP software that is bundled w/it, and i was able to get my Soundblaster playing sound again, thankfully. I re-enabled the EMU (w/o reinstalling any software) and for now, it's behaving. I'm going to try recording some audio w/the EMU tomorrow and see if that works. Why does this have to be so complicated??? I guess i should have bought the USB version of the EMU. Sounds like it would have been much less of a headache.

[Ollie]

I didn't realize that both the X-fi and the Emu are PCI cards. While this should work as well, I can remotely imagine that this can be a problem on some 2 PCI slot mainboards or this 2 particular cards don't play nice with each other (Emu cards seemingly didn't play nice with the Audigy (predecessor of your X-fi) siblings). I'd contact Emu support, they should know that (Emu = part of Creative).

[Hwangman]

Yeah, i emailed them yesterday and they emailed back saying that the EMU was designed to be the only sound card. Even though i can get my system to operate w/both, it seems that it's not optimal. I just tried recording again, using the Toneport through my Soundblaster, and i got a shit ton of cracks and pops. I am thinking i will end up selling my Toneport and the EMU, and getting a standalone unit (like a Fast Track). I want something w/less headaches.

[Ollie]

I'd tend more to keep the Emu. But the bad thing is that we still don't know for sure what the problem is as we got stuck in the middle of troubleshooting. If you decide to buy something new, make sure you can return the card/box in case it doesn't work out - crackling can be caused by ~1000 things in a computer. Things really improved in the past 8 years but still, not all combinations of hardware are apt for realtime audio.

[Hwangman]

Well, it's frustrating because the EMU says it's made SPECIFICALLY for stuff like i'm trying to do. Problem was, it was just a PCI card w/a bunch of cables coming out the back of my computer. It didn't have a way for me to plug my PC speakers into it, so i couldn't hear what i was recording. I tried a marathon session yesterday of hooking everything up to the EMU, recording, checking, etc. No usable sound, and i could never monitor anything.

This morning, i installed the front panel to the Soundblaster. I can output my Toneport directly to the panel while keeping my PC speakers plugged into the Soundblaster's PCI card in the back of my computer. This is how i used to do it years ago, and while i wanted to upgrade and use something specifically made for home recording, the EMU doesn't work for me at all.

[manning1]

Hwangman
no no no mate.
you CAN use the emu.
lots of people use the emu.
actually i understand its a very good device.
you simply connect your puter speakers to the
stereo line output of the emu.
just read the manual that comes with the emu.
you simply make the emu your default sound device in windows.
then in reaper preferences tell reaper to use the emu.

[Hwangman]

Originally Posted by manning1

Hwangman
no no no mate.
you CAN use the emu.
lots of people use the emu.
actually i understand its a very good device.
you simply connect your puter speakers to the
stereo line output of the emu.
just read the manual that comes with the emu.
you simply make the emu your default sound device in windows.
then in reaper preferences tell reaper to use the emu.

That's the problem. The EMU's output is two 1/4'' plugs (Right and Left). My PC speaker's plug is 1/8''. I haven't been able to find an adapter that will make that connection happen. Even went to Guitar Center yesterday and asked specifically about this and they said there's no way to do it unless i wanted 2 or 3 different plug adapters.

Also, I had the EMU installed correctly and went into Control Panel and made it my default device. Reaper couldn't detect it, and, since i couldn't hook my speakers up to it, i couldn't hear whatever i was trying to play through it. Frustrating.

[manning1]

Hwangman
well firstly either radio shack or any dollar store has
el cheapo adapters.
i bought some for a buck apiece.
do you have any money for proper monitors ??

if reaper aint showing the emu in prefrences its
likely it hasnt been installed properly.
OR..the emu has a user control panel.
which might be set up incorrectly.
loads of people are useing emu's in daw software.
ive seen on these forums people useing it with reaper.

[Hwangman]

In the EMU manual, it says that they can provide the adapter i need to go from PC speaker to EMU input, so i'm waiting to hear back. I've looked online for a while, and no one has these specific adapters. It's dual mono 1/4'' male to stereo 1/8'' female. Every google search has turned up different ones that wouldn't work.

The EMU did install it's own DSP, but i had no idea how to get sounds out of it. It just stayed in my system tray, and when i tried to exit out of it, it disabled the sound to my computer.

[Ollie]

http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-...prod35594.html

[Hwangman]

Steindork, thank you! Those are perfect. Too bad i completely uninstalled and removed the EMU from my computer this morning. =) Guess i've got more work to do.

Oh, and since i only have the Soundblaster installed right now, i thought i'd fire up Reaper and Toneport and try to record a few scratch guitar tracks. NOPE! Still scratchy as hell, and Reaper randomly froze for a split second every couple of minutes, making recording impossible.

...i really don't know where to go w/this. If i get that adapter for the EMU and i still can't get good results, i'm basically screwed, as i'll have absolutely no way to record anything.

[Ollie]

Yup, like I said, we got stuck in the middle of troubleshooting...

- What are your ASIO buffer settings btw? In Reaper, sometimes too low and too high can be bad.

- Select WDM, Waveout or DirectSound as driver model in Reaper. If you don't play softsynths or ampsims, you don't *have to* use ASIO and this way you could at least make some music. Are these driver models working better?

- If the answer was 'yes' - Are you using the Creative ASIO driver? This thing is known to be buggy IIRC. You could try ASIO4ALL www.asio4all.com instead. (Don't worry, ASIO4ALL doesn't replace your existing drivers, it "wraps" them.)

Other things that would be interesting to check:

- Try how it works with the onboard sound + ASIO4ALL. Same result? (Disable/remove the Audigy for that)

- It would be interesting to have RATT logging while the micro-freeze happens.

[manning1]

Hwangman
the important aspect with the emu
from folks ive seen have one is..
to fully understand its control panel mate.
there are 3 important things you must do.
(same is true for any sound device.)
1. set up the emu correctly
2. tell reaper prefs to use the emu.
3. in the track itself make sure that the correct
emu audio or midi port is selected prior to recording.

i understand the emu control panel takes a bit of understanding.
this might be your problem.
very carefully read the emu manual on setting up the user control panel.

[Hwangman]

Steindork: i was using Creative ASIO until the problems began. Since then, i've used ASIO4ALL almost exclusively, and i usually keep the samples at around 192 or 160. Is that bad?

Oh, and i did run RATT again last night when i was having the pops/clicks/freezing in Reaper. I attached my log. As you can see, it's portcls.sys, atapi.sys, and an "unknown" driver that are causing the latency, just like last time you were helping me. Lame!

Manning: i will give that a shot again. Now that i have a way to get a working adapter, i think i'll order it and once again try to get the EMU installed and playing sound out of my speakers. If i can get that, i think i'll be fine, but, as shown by that log i posted, my portcls.sys (windows audio driver) is apparently always on and causing lag, no matter what i do.

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by Hwangman

Steindork: i was using Creative ASIO until the problems began.

Did you use ASIO4ALL because the problems began? I know you would have told us if you knew what you did before the problems began but it could certainly help if you'd remember something. Of course there's a chance that something went bad by itself, too.

Originally Posted by Hwangman

Since then, i've used ASIO4ALL almost exclusively, and i usually keep the samples at around 192 or 160. Is that bad?

Oh yes. If you want to make my day (and have me in heavy head->desk action), tell me that all is fine if you change that to 256 or 512 samples. I should've asked that in first place.

Originally Posted by Hwangman

Oh, and i did run RATT again last night when i was having the pops/clicks/freezing in Reaper. I attached my log. As you can see, it's portcls.sys, atapi.sys, and an "unknown" driver that are causing the latency, just like last time you were helping me. Lame!

Alas ATAPI.SYS is not conspiciously bad, that would've been another chance. But you should check anyway if your HDD is running in PIO mode:

Open Device Manager, and check under IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers. Assuming your system (and probably only) harddisk is attached to the "Primary IDE Channel": Open up the property window of the primary channel, look under "Advanced Settings". The "Current Transfer Mode" should be "Ultra DMA". If it's PIO Mode, that may be responsible for the problems.

Originally Posted by Hwangman

If i can get that, i think i'll be fine, but, as shown by that log i posted, my portcls.sys (windows audio driver) is apparently always on and causing lag, no matter what i do.

All Google hits I found for portcls.sys point to BSODs and none to DPC related snap, crackle and pop issues. I don't think this is the actual culprit, at most a sideeffect of the problem. The "unknown" device has some high bucket numbers too (but only ~1ms, this is at most another click in the audio). However, having all mainboard drivers updated is certainly a good idea.

[Hwangman]

Originally Posted by Steindork

Did you use ASIO4ALL because the problems began? I know you would have told us if you knew what you did before the problems began but it could certainly help if you'd remember something. Of course there's a chance that something went bad by itself, too.

I was using the Creative ASIO driver on my old rig and on this one until stuff started going wonky.

Originally Posted by Steindork

Oh yes. If you want to make my day (and have me in heavy head->desk action), tell me that all is fine if you change that to 256 or 512 samples. I should've asked that in first place.

I will try that today. I think the default was around 512 when i first installed ASIO4ALL, but that was too laggy. For guitar, i need as close to 0 ms as possible.

My 3 internal drives are all SATA, but just to be safe, i checked the IDE settings. They're on DMA already.

Originally Posted by Steindork

All Google hits I found for portcls.sys point to BSODs and none to DPC related snap, crackle and pop issues. I don't think this is the actual culprit, at most a sideeffect of the problem. The "unknown" device has some high bucket numbers too (but only ~1ms, this is at most another click in the audio). However, having all mainboard drivers updated is certainly a good idea.

I got the same Google results while looking for portcls.sys as well, so i'm hoping it is what you said (merely a side effect of something else). Too bad RATT just says "unknown" driver...no way to know how to fix it.

There is 1 new version of my mobo's driver online, so i can try that too. Hell, if it gets even worse after that, i think i'm at the point where i'd consider a fresh install of Windows.