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Old 09-03-2011, 04:27 PM   #1
duojet
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Default New PC, Win7 64-bit, and sandy bridge/PCI

Hi,

I have a couple of questions -

First, has anyone had problems with USB or other devices and DPC on windows 7 64 bit? I searched but couldn't find anything. I am getting spike and pops/crackles with win7 64 but not in win7 32 with an identical configuration. Anyone else have the same experience?

2nd, I may just decide to build a new PC. I use a PCI sound card (emu 1820m). I heard that some sandy bridge boards have issues with PCI due to the fact it's not natively supported on the chipset. Anyone have good experience with PCI and sandy bridge?

Last quick thing, anyone find that more recent (last couple yrs) nvidia cards cause high DPC spikes? I had to replace my ASUS Geforce 210 because of this. Has anyone had good experiences with any nvidia cards which run windows 7 well (aero, etc)?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:58 PM   #2
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As far as I can tell, I have not seen any success using Sandy Bridge and PCI interfaces over at M-Audio.
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duojet View Post
First, has anyone had problems with USB or other devices and DPC on windows 7 64 bit? I searched but couldn't find anything. I am getting spike and pops/crackles with win7 64 but not in win7 32 with an identical configuration. Anyone else have the same experience?
I'm running Win7 x64, also Reaper x64 with 2 USB ASIO devices: CEntrance DACport and M-Audio MobilePre and haven't had any spikes/pops/crackles for years.
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:16 AM   #4
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thanks for the replies. That really sucks about sandy bridge/pci. I am surprised I haven't seen more about this around the net.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:07 AM   #5
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Is this i7/Sandy Bridge issue something inherent with PCI-based audio cards? I own an M-Audio 2496, which runs decently in a Windows 7 64-bit system.

I read on the M-Audio forum that there are problems:
http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread...ASE-READ/page2

Intel Link:
http://communities.intel.com/message/139206

Avid forum link:
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?p...72#post1833372

It seems I should get a new PCI-e soundcard if I plan on getting an i7 2600K (which I do.)

Intel BOXDP67BGB3 ?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121511

Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:22 PM   #6
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:Edit:

So I did some more reading (and I will add this on M-Audio as well, but it seems as though P67 chipsets are the ones affected. As I read:

Quote:
Intel chipsets B65, Q67 support PCI natively, not some unreliable 3rd party legacy PCI bridge.
I have no way of verifying this right now, but for those looking for legacy PCI support, that may be the answer temporarily.

Anyone want to confirm this? jschild?
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Last edited by JGrabowMST; 09-26-2011 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 09-27-2011, 05:45 AM   #7
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none have native PCI support they all require PCI to PCIe bridge using the ITE chipset.
the ITE chipset has been the issue and Intel did a firmware update lately.
a brand new of newer stock motherboard should be ok for PCI (at least most PCI interfaces.

Scott
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jcschild View Post
none have native PCI support they all require PCI to PCIe bridge using the ITE chipset.
the ITE chipset has been the issue and Intel did a firmware update lately.
a brand new of newer stock motherboard should be ok for PCI (at least most PCI interfaces.

Scott
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scott, is the latency on previous generation i5/i7 better with PCI for low latency, or has this firmware update put sandy bridge on par with the previous chipsets which had native PCI? I'm considering a new build and i'd sacrifice 15-25% performance for audio reliability.

for a new build with a PCI audio interface would you recommend the previous gen i7 (i7-870) over a sandy bridge i7-2600?
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:40 PM   #9
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personally i would dump the PCI card.

its not about latency it more if it will work or not. if it works without issue then the latency will be as good as it gets on that particular card.

at first PCI was working, then PCI stopped working many emails and much debate with Intel (and the help of Lynx)

then they started to work again after then did a firmware fix on the ITE.

so again a newer board should work.
as far going backwards. an 870 would not be it an X58 system would be much wiser.
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Old 09-27-2011, 05:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcschild View Post
personally i would dump the PCI card.

its not about latency it more if it will work or not. if it works without issue then the latency will be as good as it gets on that particular card.

at first PCI was working, then PCI stopped working many emails and much debate with Intel (and the help of Lynx)

then they started to work again after then did a firmware fix on the ITE.

so again a newer board should work.
as far going backwards. an 870 would not be it an X58 system would be much wiser.
thanks. does the x58 natively support PCI? I dont plan on dumping the PCI interface just yet.

my question about latency was more related to dpc i guess. in other words does the lack of native support cause additional DPC latency which would make the audio stream a little less reliable at very low latencies like 64 samples.

by newer board do you mean one released recently or one that's been recently stocked and has the latest firmware?

I'm surprised there's so little about this on the web after searching google for this issue.
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:35 AM   #11
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yes X 58 has native PCI
i knew what you meant about latency and yes newer with the new firmware.
this is not a downloadable firmware it has to be programed at the factory thus why a newer board is needed. i would think most old stock has cleared out by now..

not surprising at all there is nothing about it on the web. audio video is such a small % of users. most users never install a single card into thier system.

here are a few examples (going to beat up on Intel today)

Intel X58 (DX58SO i think, not the new one thats out DX58SO2?) when it first released and a good long while you could not add a PCI/PCIe card and have it work. in fact even their own Raid card would cause a BSOD when installed LOL.
(one of my competitors used this board albeit not for long) so much for testing/validating before building a system to sell....

going back a little. DP35DP motherboard when it first came out you could fill every slot with interfaces and UADs, a bios change broke it to be useless. it took numerous bios, and nearly a yr later before they fixed the issue. (this is somewhat documented on the UA forums)

you wont find that on the net yet its fact...
Intel had no clue about the PCI issue (well thats what the engineers said)
the ITE chip i am talking about is used on nearly all 1155 boards. a small handful used a different chip to increase PCIe lanes count.

SCott
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcschild View Post
yes X 58 has native PCI
i knew what you meant about latency and yes newer with the new firmware.
this is not a downloadable firmware it has to be programed at the factory thus why a newer board is needed. i would think most old stock has cleared out by now..

not surprising at all there is nothing about it on the web. audio video is such a small % of users. most users never install a single card into thier system.

here are a few examples (going to beat up on Intel today)

Intel X58 (DX58SO i think, not the new one thats out DX58SO2?) when it first released and a good long while you could not add a PCI/PCIe card and have it work. in fact even their own Raid card would cause a BSOD when installed LOL.
(one of my competitors used this board albeit not for long) so much for testing/validating before building a system to sell....

going back a little. DP35DP motherboard when it first came out you could fill every slot with interfaces and UADs, a bios change broke it to be useless. it took numerous bios, and nearly a yr later before they fixed the issue. (this is somewhat documented on the UA forums)

you wont find that on the net yet its fact...
Intel had no clue about the PCI issue (well thats what the engineers said)
the ITE chip i am talking about is used on nearly all 1155 boards. a small handful used a different chip to increase PCIe lanes count.

SCott
Scott, thanks, this information is very helpful.
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Old 10-02-2011, 04:16 AM   #13
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Morning all

Regarding the OPs original dilemma...I've just built my own i5 Sandy Bridge Win7 64bit machine with an EMU 0404 PCI card as my audio interface. Motherboard is an Asus P8P67 Rev3. It's working fine (so far so good!). I'm taking a risk in using the Win7 beta drivers but all seems stable and reliable at the moment. I've read that the Vista drivers work ok as well.
The important thing is below...:

The pops and crackles might be due to differing bit depths applied a) in Windows Sound, and b) within the EMU Patchmix settings. I've had success in setting both at 48khz, and also at 44.1khz. I have a good buddy who is also using the EMU 1820 on a 64bit machine without any issues so this could very well be something for you to investigate.

In Windows Control Panel, open the Sounds dialogue (highlight the EMU) > Properties > Advanced, and you have a raft of sample rates and bit depths to choose from. Try equating your bit depth here with what you want in Patchmix and see if the problem disappears? I think this could be the answer for you.

Funny, but I'm also using an InVidia Geforce 210 for graphics - no problems to report at highest resolution default settings!
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:54 AM   #14
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Morning all

Regarding the OPs original dilemma...I've just built my own i5 Sandy Bridge Win7 64bit machine with an EMU 0404 PCI card as my audio interface. Motherboard is an Asus P8P67 Rev3. It's working fine (so far so good!). I'm taking a risk in using the Win7 beta drivers but all seems stable and reliable at the moment. I've read that the Vista drivers work ok as well.
The important thing is below...:

The pops and crackles might be due to differing bit depths applied a) in Windows Sound, and b) within the EMU Patchmix settings. I've had success in setting both at 48khz, and also at 44.1khz. I have a good buddy who is also using the EMU 1820 on a 64bit machine without any issues so this could very well be something for you to investigate.

In Windows Control Panel, open the Sounds dialogue (highlight the EMU) > Properties > Advanced, and you have a raft of sample rates and bit depths to choose from. Try equating your bit depth here with what you want in Patchmix and see if the problem disappears? I think this could be the answer for you.

Funny, but I'm also using an InVidia Geforce 210 for graphics - no problems to report at highest resolution default settings!
thanks for the reply. Actually the clicks/pops have gone away. It turns out it was solely the geforce210 causing somewhat large dpc spikes. After replacing the card I have never gotten the clicks/pops at lowest latencies, except once and that was when I had a flash intensive web page open in the background.

Good news about your positive experience with sandy bridge and the EMU PCI card. So you have no issues at low latencies?
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:12 PM   #15
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No worries mate. The bit depth mis-match thing was just something I came across while investigating whether the 0404 would sit OK in my new set-up.
It sounds like you've solved your problems though - great stuff. It seems odd that I'm not having similar issues from my graphics card. But I did basically just copy the spec for the machine from a well-known UK custom builders website and the GeForce was part of the details so it ought to be fine.

I've had zero performance problems so far. I can't pretend to have pushed it very hard yet; its only been built for a week or so. I use mostly soft synths and lots of effects and have the EMU ASIO set at 10ms latency with very little hit on the CPU. I haven't even looked into the over-clocking aspects yet - this is my first home-build and I'm frankly amazed at how few problems I've had since first switching it on. I don't want to push my luck! I'm certainly no expert technically speaking. I just needed a new PC and fancied the challenge of doing it myself. Glad I did though - I've learned loads in the process, and saved hundreds of pounds. It feels like quite a significant leap from XP to Win7, let alone the whole 64bit thing. I just hope there aren't any nasty surprises waiting for me further down the line.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:40 PM   #16
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Hi,

Last quick thing, anyone find that more recent (last couple yrs) nvidia cards cause high DPC spikes? I had to replace my ASUS Geforce 210 because of this. Has anyone had good experiences with any nvidia cards which run windows 7 well (aero, etc)?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
I am using a GeForce 8800 GTS and the DPC latency is fine.

I have a 6 core AMD CPU and 8gb of memory running W7 64 bit and Reaper 64 bit version 4.

I am getting clicks & pops. I am using the on board Realtek audio device with SPiD/F out to JBL LSR series monitors.

Is there a driver for the Mbox2 that I could use? Last I checked (PT8) only ProTools could use the box.
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by influenced View Post
Morning all

Regarding the OPs original dilemma...I've just built my own i5 Sandy Bridge Win7 64bit machine with an EMU 0404 PCI card as my audio interface. Motherboard is an Asus P8P67 Rev3. It's working fine (so far so good!). I'm taking a risk in using the Win7 beta drivers but all seems stable and reliable at the moment. I've read that the Vista drivers work ok as well.
The important thing is below...:

The pops and crackles might be due to differing bit depths applied a) in Windows Sound, and b) within the EMU Patchmix settings. I've had success in setting both at 48khz, and also at 44.1khz. I have a good buddy who is also using the EMU 1820 on a 64bit machine without any issues so this could very well be something for you to investigate.

In Windows Control Panel, open the Sounds dialogue (highlight the EMU) > Properties > Advanced, and you have a raft of sample rates and bit depths to choose from. Try equating your bit depth here with what you want in Patchmix and see if the problem disappears? I think this could be the answer for you.

Funny, but I'm also using an InVidia Geforce 210 for graphics - no problems to report at highest resolution default settings!
Recent i5, Sandy Bridge, Win7 64bit, EMU 0404 PCI card user here too (also using Emu's lazy beta driver), 'cept using an Asus P8Z68-v and an old Nvidia Geforce 7600gt (plus onboard gfx for gaming, happily playing Crysis 2!)

Zero latency issues but since the upgrade (from AMD Phenom II x4) the soundcard started pumping out noise from the hard drive, whenever it was being accessed, a low crackling appeared, in time to the slight crunch coming from the case. Downloading/writing to the hard drive while trying to listen to ambient music was an impossibility. Also, the monitor is now causing a buzz to appear somewhere in the chain.

Moving leads around inside the PC and putting the 0404 in another PCI slot has got rid of the hard drive noise, simply unplugging the monitor gets rid of the hum that its so graciously providing on all my recordings Its not really an ideal solution to the monitor hum but it'll do for now.

Anyway, zero problems to report here from the actual chipset (so far) but these things never seem to go completely smoothly!
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:27 AM   #18
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I'm about to build a new PC with an i7 and Z68 motherboard and have been reading about the incompatibility of the new mobos with PCI.

I have lived the unexplained clicks and pops nightmare and had many tracks ruined, can't go back there!!

So I bought the Emu 0404 w PCIe which apparently works great, to replace my M-Audio 192 card which is PCI.

Are people now saying that PCI cards will in fact work with the new motherboards, or is everyone moving to PCIe?

This stuff gets confusing!
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