Old 01-21-2019, 10:59 AM   #1
andrijatheloki
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Default Panned routing :

Hello everyone!

I switched from Pro tools to Reaper..What to say, its amazing..Not a single remark...if...i...just...knew...before........ugh. ....... , Anyhow question

In pro tools i used to get the STEREO effect, by routing a track to bus, and panning track hard left and bus track hard right for example, adding delay effect to bus track and voila, works... but here when i pan hard left or right and try to send signal, it just doesn't work, works only when its panned on the "center"...Any tips how to overcome? The only way i found is by duplicating track...

Thanks!! Cheers!!
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Old 01-21-2019, 02:42 PM   #2
X-Raym
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@andrijatheloki
If you are looking to do he Haas trick, just use the FX JS: channel time delayer included in REAPER on your track FX chain and move right channel by 33ms.


More modern Mono to Stereo effects don't produce mono compatibility issue:check Izotope Ozone Imager free plugin, or Wider free plugin by Polyverse Music.


My favorite solution is Izotope one.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:50 AM   #3
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You're using a Post Pan send and then your bus is using the default pan mode. The track is sending both channels to the bus. The right hand channel is silent, but then the bus's pan pot turns the left channel all the way down. It's doing what it's supposed to, but there's just nothing to hear on that channel.

Your options sort of ranked by my preference:

-Put you delay right on the track. Click the 2 in/2 out button in the upper right of the plugin window. Uncheck both of the boxes for Channel 1. Set the delay 100% wet of course.

-In the track's I/O window, set up the send so that the source is channel 1 and the destination is channel 2. Then you don't even have to pan the bus. You can. Depending on your pan law, it might have an effect on the level.

-In the bus's I/O panel, set the width slider to -100%.

-Change the bus's pan mode (right click the knob) to either stereo or dual pan and adjust those knobs accordingly.

-Use a prefader send. Maybe bus both tracks to a third or put them both in a folder so you can control both levels at the same time.

Last edited by ashcat_lt; 01-22-2019 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:15 PM   #4
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I'm not sure if this is what you are trying to do but,
I think I saw this in one of Kenny's videos and it is real quick and easy.
When you create a send there is a button that changes the send to mono.
You can then pan the bus independent of the source track.
I use it to pan a mono reverb to the opposite side of mono guitar or keyboard part. I have also put a stereo delay on the bus track and left the pan center on the bus and the delay worked in stereo, eg, if I had the delay ping pong it bounced to left and right stereo field as it should.
Seems to work and real quick if is what you are trying to achieve. Give it a try?
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:21 PM   #5
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When you create a send there is a button that changes the send to mono.
This is another option. I'm pretty sure you end up losing 6db in the process, but that's only a problem if it's a problem.
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:33 PM   #6
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Default Hey Ash, Question

Why is 6 db lost and if I crank up the gain on the bus, will I be raising the noise floor, any other down side?
Thanks!
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:59 PM   #7
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I honestly haven't tried this specifically, but in most cases where Reaper folds a stereo pair down to mono (and actually then back out to stereo) like this (eg the Width knob at 0, Master Mono button...), it applies something very much like a 6db pan law type thing. It mixes the two channels together, attenuates by 6db, then spits that out onto both channels. Basically, each channel of the output is set to (channel 1 + channnel 2) / 2.

I guess that dropping 6db and then adding 6db later does raise the noise floor of the mix engine a bit, but since it's down below -300dbFS to begin with...
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:46 AM   #8
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@ashcat
No noise introduce as the internal calculation s are made at very high bith depth (32 bits at least).

@Jonny
check your tracks and project pann law. Set it to 0. maybe it will sove this.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:57 AM   #9
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@ashcat
No noise introduce as the internal calculation s are made at very high bith depth (32 bits at least).
Just because the noise floor is so low that you'd never hear it unless you did something insane doesn't mean it's not there.

Also Pan Law won't help. The loss I was talking about comes from the Mono button itself. Well, gain compensated 6db Law might help...
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:53 AM   #10
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For precizion, the 64 bit mixing in REAPER allows 385.32 dB with 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 integer values possible per sample.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:06 AM   #11
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...but since it's down below -300dbFS to begin with...

I completely dig your point that it's not actually anything to ever worry about, but technically - like all cards on the table - there will be some noise added. I actually do on very rare occasions end up with enough gain to where it becomes noticeable, but in those cases I'm looking for horrible noise anyway.

The OP should not worry about that part at all. For all practical purposes, the noise floor is determined by the source. Anything recorded from outside can't have more resolution than the interface (24bit?) and most real world sources are actually noisier than 16bit even. If you've got 80db S/N to begin with, you should count yourself very lucky. That part is baked into the file and won't change at all with linear gain changes.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrijatheloki View Post
Hello everyone!

I switched from Pro tools to Reaper..What to say, its amazing..Not a single remark...if...i...just...knew...before........ugh. ....... , Anyhow question

In pro tools i used to get the STEREO effect, by routing a track to bus, and panning track hard left and bus track hard right for example, adding delay effect to bus track and voila, works... but here when i pan hard left or right and try to send signal, it just doesn't work, works only when its panned on the "center"...Any tips how to overcome? The only way i found is by duplicating track...

Thanks!! Cheers!!
Since no one has answered you yet...

The quirk here is that the minimum number of channels on a track is two (stereo).

You might be envisioning a mono source that you pan to one side or the other. It doesn't work that way in Reaper. The panner attenuates one side or the other of that stereo pair.

Further, when you make a send to another track, the send routing is ALSO (minimum) a stereo pair. Left channel to the left channel of the send routing to the left channel of the receiving track, Same for the right.

When you pan the source track to the left (in this example), the right channel is fully attenuated. So... there's no audio signal on the right channel.

Now in the receiving track, when you pan it to the right it's attenuating it's left channel.

If you want sound on the right channel of the receiving track, you need to send audio to it's right channel. You can either hit that mono button or select the left channel mono as the source instead of 1/2 in the audio source menu in the send window.

The two track channels always stay separated.
You can have up to 64 track channels for any routing but minimum 2. This is the weird quirk in Reaper. Panning doesn't pan something back back and forth. It lowers one side or the other of the stereo pair. If you have identical signals in both channels as happens from a mono source item in the track, then you get the effect of that mono source panning back and forth from this.
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Since no one has answered you yet...
Respectfully, I completely did. Reply #3.
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:54 PM   #14
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Respectfully, I completely did. Reply #3.
My mistake. Sorry!
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Old 01-26-2019, 07:36 PM   #15
andrijatheloki
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Hello everyone!!! Thanks a lot for answers!!!

So i tried everything..almost..the ones I understood...in the end the one that did exactly what i wanted was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMusic View Post
I'm not sure if this is what you are trying to do but,
I think I saw this in one of Kenny's videos and it is real quick and easy.
When you create a send there is a button that changes the send to mono.
You can then pan the bus independent of the source track.
I use it to pan a mono reverb to the opposite side of mono guitar or keyboard part. I have also put a stereo delay on the bus track and left the pan center on the bus and the delay worked in stereo, eg, if I had the delay ping pong it bounced to left and right stereo field as it should.
Seems to work and real quick if is what you are trying to achieve. Give it a try?


So solution: On the routing:send i selected down in the corner " Audio: " to mono source, choosing the 1 or 2 (L or R) and that did the trick.... Thanks everyone again!

P.s. i needed it for sending delayed signal to the opposite side, for example guitar that is left, delayed to the right and the other way around ... ANd another thing, its interesting, but the sent signal is quieter..perhaps for 6db...hah Anyways, just crank it up..

cheers!
Andrija
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:06 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by andrijatheloki View Post
ANd another thing, its interesting, but the sent signal is quieter..perhaps for 6db...
Huh. Imagine that. :/

Actually, though it was in the middle of my list of options, I think changing the bus's Width to -100% might be the better option here. Leave the send stereo and to both channels - default, normal, the way it originally was. Leave the bus pan centered. You won't see that volume drop (well, it depends on pan law, buses usually want 0db anyway), and the delay (assuming a true stereo delay) will mirror the panning of the guitar track. Pan guitar right, delay goes left. Pan guitar left, delay goes right. Pan guitar toward the center and the delay moves in until they meet in the middle.
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:24 AM   #17
JohnnyMusic
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Default Hey Ash Another Question

Does that preferred method you describe in the last post work if you don't want to pan the effect symmetrically to the opposite side? For example, the original guitar track 90% left, the effect 70% right, or whatever?
Thanks!
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:47 AM   #18
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Does that preferred method you describe in the last post work if you don't want to pan the effect symmetrically to the opposite side? For example, the original guitar track 90% left, the effect 70% right, or whatever?
Thanks!
Sort of. If you set the bus Width to somewhere between -100 and 0, it will mirror and "scale" the panning that you do the other track. If you want it to go further than the guitar track (guitar at 70 and delay at 90), you'd have to set bus width to -100 and then use it's pan knob. It'll be a little tough to say exactly what percent it ends up at, but numbers don't matter. Turn the knobs till it sounds good.
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