Old 06-26-2019, 11:03 AM   #1
deeb
Human being with feelings
 
deeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,642
Default Anyone uses Midi Fighter Twister in reaper with no issues?

I am considering this controller into my setup, I would like to be sure that it can be integrated and able to use midi learn on reaper and the LED updated smoothly! Thank you
deeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 05:36 PM   #2
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 862
Default

Hey there!

MF twister is an amazing product!

I made a video for the reaper blog showcasing how you can actually get led feedback with the mf twister. Here's the link:

https://youtu.be/p0LBdXXcg7g
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 06:27 AM   #3
deeb
Human being with feelings
 
deeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,642
Default

Nice video and thanks cjewellstudios

At some point i have tried realearn and seems like moving knobs becomes less smooth comparing with reaper native OSC/midi learn. Maybe just a few miliseconds of delay but still .. made be don't follow that direction. What is your experience with it?
OSX here ..
deeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 06:45 AM   #4
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Nice video and thanks cjewellstudios

At some point i have tried realearn and seems like moving knobs becomes less smooth comparing with reaper native OSC/midi learn. Maybe just a few miliseconds of delay but still .. made be don't follow that direction. What is your experience with it?
OSX here ..
It feels really smooth to be honest!

I'm sure you know but you can set the push down and turn to a super fine control on twister. Super useful!

I'm on windows. The feedback part of all this I think is what makes it smooth.
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 07:13 AM   #5
deeb
Human being with feelings
 
deeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,642
Default

Ohh ok! When I said not smooth I just mean the precision and how fast moving the knob on The controller and the time it takes to send the message to the plugin. Native osc learn was clearly faster here comparing to realearn. I need to try again !
deeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 07:40 PM   #6
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Ohh ok! When I said not smooth I just mean the precision and how fast moving the knob on The controller and the time it takes to send the message to the plugin. Native osc learn was clearly faster here comparing to realearn. I need to try again !
Oh thats interesting!

I've just purely used this in a mixing context so far, so I hadn't really been pushing the limits of it.

With the smart knobs script, theres a feature I didnt talk about partly because I dont understand but also partly because I was already cramming alot of information into a 10 min video.

You can record your automation or performance by hitting the record button and doing a pass. I'm pretty sure then it can take that performance and paste it as envelopes on the track. That way it's a higher resolution and can be recorded without the latency part being so bad.

(really bad explaination, sorry!)
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2019, 02:32 AM   #7
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 10,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Native osc learn was clearly faster here comparing to realearn. I need to try again !
The CSI extension should be perfect for this, but unfortunately AFAIK, OSC is not yet implemented.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2019, 03:11 AM   #8
Tiggerdyret
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 404
Default

Hi, I can also vouch for the MFT. And any limitation would be software related IMO. It's an amazing product.

I haven't noticed any delay with Realearn myself, but if you are reluctant you could try out the LBX Smart Knobs/Faderbox script without Realearn. I've heard a lot of people claim it isn't as reliable without Realearn, but I haven't tried it without myself, but you should definitely give Faderbox a try and see if that works out better for you.

Another trick I've used in tandem with Faderbox is a relative endless encoder on my X-Touch set to "adjust last touched FX parameter" for fine tuning. So I can move my Realearn/faderbox encoders and than have reaper's native midi link control given parameter with, which would give you no delay. The issue with this is that it might be too small increments for automation, but you could bite the bullet and have an extra absolute or soft-takerover with the same principles for special cases.
Tiggerdyret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2021, 05:20 PM   #9
Treaper
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
The CSI extension should be perfect for this, but unfortunately AFAIK, OSC is not yet implemented.

-Michael
Hi Michael, I'm thinking of getting a Midi Fighter Twister. Do you have any update on the OSC implementation or where I can read about its progress?

Thanks.
Treaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2021, 05:33 PM   #10
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treaper View Post
Hi Michael, I'm thinking of getting a Midi Fighter Twister. Do you have any update on the OSC implementation or where I can read about its progress?

Thanks.
OSC is working. Follow the CSI thread here. There's a wiki explaining CSI in Geoff's signature.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....10#post2389110

There's been a couple nice templates shared recently by MixMonkey and Funkybot. I also recently showed you can use OSC for a meter bridge using CSI.
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2021, 06:37 AM   #11
Treaper
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
OSC is working. Follow the CSI thread here. There's a wiki explaining CSI in Geoff's signature.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....10#post2389110

There's been a couple nice templates shared recently by MixMonkey and Funkybot. I also recently showed you can use OSC for a meter bridge using CSI.
Thanks for the info, I'll take a look.
Treaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2021, 08:27 AM   #12
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treaper View Post
Thanks for the info, I'll take a look.
I've got a nice setup using CSI where I use my Twister primarily for FX, but also controlling some Selected Track Functions, Sends, some Reaper actions, then I mirror the setup on an old iPad to add displays so I can see what is mapped where. CSI makes all that possible. It's very cool.
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 08:54 PM   #13
themixtape
Human being with feelings
 
themixtape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,016
Default

No issues at all with mine. Love it and VERY helpful controller.
themixtape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2021, 05:29 AM   #14
Regisfofo
Human being with feelings
 
Regisfofo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: France
Posts: 519
Default

Another option is to use it with Moss script. A pita to set up in reaper, but then works dmoothly... It all depends what you to control with it. Midifighter works nicely and is very smooth to use.
Regisfofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2021, 01:42 AM   #15
themixtape
Human being with feelings
 
themixtape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
Another option is to use it with Moss script. A pita to set up in reaper, but then works dmoothly... It all depends what you to control with it. Midifighter works nicely and is very smooth to use.
How exactly would one do this? As far as I know, his script does not support the MIDI Fighter Twister.
themixtape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2021, 03:19 AM   #16
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
How exactly would one do this? As far as I know, his script does not support the MIDI Fighter Twister.
He calls it the generic flexi. It's a catch all sort of thing. There's a few videos on his channel about it.

In terms of Reaper control though, CSI is worth the look. You can customize your own midi acceleration per parameter to where your slowest turn could move from 1.00KHz to 1.01KHz and then turning the knob faster can go as fast as you would want, for instance. (the controller has to have acceleration, which the MFT does) I have two MF Twisters that I use side by side and look at it as an 8 channel mixer with the top row of LED rings even providing metering. Then when you float an FX GUI that you have mapped, the whole surface changes to control that plugin. The MFT's don't have any displays, but CSI allows me to set the colors of the LED's, per parameter. It goes deeper than that and you can completely customize it.
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2021, 08:04 AM   #17
pilau
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
I have two MF Twisters that I use side by side and look at it as an 8 channel mixer with the top row of LED rings even providing metering. Then when you float an FX GUI that you have mapped, the whole surface changes to control that plugin. The MFT's don't have any displays, but CSI allows me to set the colors of the LED's, per parameter. It goes deeper than that and you can completely customize it.
That sounds incredible. I also have a MF Twister. Is there any way you could share your CSI configuration? Thanks
pilau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2021, 08:18 AM   #18
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilau View Post
That sounds incredible. I also have a MF Twister. Is there any way you could share your CSI configuration? Thanks

Because I have two, mine would look a little different. There are some MF Twister files in the CSI download though. If not, they should be there and I can track them down. CSI power user Funkybot made them.

I can send you something later though if you haven't tracked them down.
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2021, 04:06 AM   #19
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 862
Default

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=11734

Here's a simple setup I did for one twister and looking at it like a four channel mixer:

Top row - the led rings are meters, the buttons solo the track and the knobs do nothing

2nd row - Rotaries control track pan and buttons do track mute

3rd row - track volume - buttons do track solo

4th row - bank -4, bank +4, play, the knob controls last touched parameter

....

1. Your MF twister knobs needs to be setup up in encoder mode (Enc 3FH/41H) you can do that with the midi fighter utility

2. I'm pretty sure that what I have in the mst file matches the default configuration of midi messages. If not we'll have to do some legwork to match those up.

3. You can change literally all of this obviously. For instance, you may want to use the bottom four buttons as the modifiers shift, ctrl, alt, and option. That really opens up some possibilities. You could even use four buttons of another midi controller for that.

4. For FX, I would include all my mappings here but they would be useless because I have a twice the amount of control surface. The line in the zon file that says:

OnFXFocus MapFocusedFXToWidgets

That changes the entire surface to your fx zone (if you have a zone file for that vst, that is)

You could also choose to work by selected track.

5. Please read the wiki: https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ntegrator/wiki

6. Use the CSI help thread for any questions. https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=245280
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2021, 11:41 PM   #20
themixtape
Human being with feelings
 
themixtape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
He calls it the generic flexi. It's a catch all sort of thing. There's a few videos on his channel about it.

In terms of Reaper control though, CSI is worth the look. You can customize your own midi acceleration per parameter to where your slowest turn could move from 1.00KHz to 1.01KHz and then turning the knob faster can go as fast as you would want, for instance. (the controller has to have acceleration, which the MFT does) I have two MF Twisters that I use side by side and look at it as an 8 channel mixer with the top row of LED rings even providing metering. Then when you float an FX GUI that you have mapped, the whole surface changes to control that plugin. The MFT's don't have any displays, but CSI allows me to set the colors of the LED's, per parameter. It goes deeper than that and you can completely customize it.
Very cool. Will look into it. Thanks!
themixtape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2021, 08:19 AM   #21
helgoboss
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Ohh ok! When I said not smooth I just mean the precision and how fast moving the knob on The controller and the time it takes to send the message to the plugin. Native osc learn was clearly faster here comparing to realearn. I need to try again !
If it was not smooth back then, now with ReaLearn 2 I'm pretty sure it is (and in case if not, I'm responsive in the dedicated forum thread). Definitely worth a second try IMO because I don't think there's an easier way to customize controllers. It's made for all kinds of controllers, but it works especially well with the Midi Fighter Twister because that's my number one test device.
helgoboss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2021, 08:35 PM   #22
Bugh
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
Hey there!

MF twister is an amazing product!

I made a video for the reaper blog showcasing how you can actually get led feedback with the mf twister. Here's the link:

https://youtu.be/p0LBdXXcg7g
Amazing, thank you.
Bugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 05:07 PM   #23
cjewellstudios
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugh View Post
Amazing, thank you.
You're very welcome.

FWIW though, I moved on from this setup and got into CSI.

That's really great as well, is being actively developed and has a great community of users.

CSI allows control over acceleration and that's a complete game changer. Customizing exactly how the knob reacts is unbelievable. MFT encoder LED feedback is also implemented. Among many many other things. CSI is where it's at for sure.
cjewellstudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2021, 07:37 AM   #24
mduque
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 29
Default Using it

Using it with no issues. It was a bit tricky to configure ...
mduque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2021, 07:39 AM   #25
mduque
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 29
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Nice video and thanks cjewellstudios

At some point i have tried realearn and seems like moving knobs becomes less smooth comparing with reaper native OSC/midi learn. Maybe just a few miliseconds of delay but still .. made be don't follow that direction. What is your experience with it?
OSX here ..
Try to check the sound card configuration. I had the same issue with WASAPI and changed to ASIO and now it is working like a charm
mduque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2021, 01:05 AM   #26
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
You're very welcome.

FWIW though, I moved on from this setup and got into CSI.

That's really great as well, is being actively developed and has a great community of users.

CSI allows control over acceleration and that's a complete game changer. Customizing exactly how the knob reacts is unbelievable. MFT encoder LED feedback is also implemented. Among many many other things. CSI is where it's at for sure.
WIth velocity each knob in a relative mode produces 11 different values in either direction which you can pin to whatever speed you want in CSI.

In CSI you describe the hardware with one file(*.mst) and anything you do with it in Zone files (*.zon).

For each encoder in relative mode and velocity enables, run
Code:
widget RotaryA1
	MFTEncoder   b0 00 7f [ < 3f 3e 3d 3c 3b 3a 39 38 36 33 2f > 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 4a 4d 51 ]
	FB_Fader7Bit b0 00 7f
WidgetEnd
In a Zone file I'll usually have it setup to control the focused effect window.

And there it depends on the effect I'm using. For example, Valhalla Room has a really annoying parameter range for Decay that is very poorly geared towards control surface/knob users.

Its values from 0 to 1.0 are represent a value range of 0 to 100, linearly!!!!

So I have the Decay setup this way for the Midi Fight Twisters relative+velocity knob:
Code:
RotaryA3  FXParam 2 "decay"          [ (0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001) ]
That's the lowest CSI will go. A resolution of effectively 0.1 seconds for the decay parameter.

Here's an encoder zone setups for the SSL Channelstrip v2
Code:
Zone "VST3: SSL Native Channel Strip 2 (SSL)"
  FocusedFXNavigator

RotaryA1  NoAction
RotaryA2  NoAction
RotaryA3  NoAction
RotaryA4  NoAction

RotaryA5  NoAction
RotaryA6  NoAction
RotaryA7  NoAction
RotaryA8  NoAction

RotaryA9  FXParam 4  "Low Pass"  [ (0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.002,0.002,0.002,0.003,0.003,0.004,0.004) ]
RotaryA10 FXParam 5  "High Pass" [ (0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.002,0.002,0.002,0.003,0.003,0.004,0.004) ]
RotaryA11 FXParam 25 "Release"   [ (0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.002,0.002,0.002,0.003,0.003,0.004,0.004) ]
RotaryA12 NoAction

/ lowest row
RotaryA13 FXParam 2  "Input Trim"  [ (0.001,0.002,0.003,0.004,0.005,0.006,0.006,0.007,0.007,0.008,0.008) ]
RotaryA14 FXParam 24 "Threshold"   [ (0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.002,0.002,0.002,0.003,0.003,0.004,0.004) ]
RotaryA15 FXParam 23 "Ratio"       [ (0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.002,0.002,0.002,0.003,0.003,0.004,0.004) ]
RotaryA16 FXParam 37 "Output Trim" [ (0.001,0.002,0.003,0.004,0.005,0.006,0.006,0.007,0.007,0.008,0.008) ]

EncBtnA1  FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }
EncBtnA2  FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }
EncBtnA3  FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }
EncBtnA4  FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }

EncBtnA5  FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }
EncBtnA6  FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }
EncBtnA7  FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }
EncBtnA8  FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }

EncBtnA9  FXParam 4   [0.0] { 242	255	0 242	255	0 } // YELLOW - reset Low Pass
EncBtnA10 FXParam 5   [0.0] { 242	255	0 242	255	0 } // YELLOW - reset High Pass
EncBtnA11 FXParam 25  [0.2] { 255	50	0 255	50	0 } // RED    - reset release
EncBtnA12 FXParam 999 [0.0] { 165 0 255 165 0 255 }

EncBtnA13 FXParam 2   [0.5] { 165 255   0 165 255   0 } // GREEN  - reset input gain to 0 dB
EncBtnA14 FXParam 24  [1.0] { 242 255   0 242 255   0 } // YELLOW - reset threshold
EncBtnA15 FXParam 23  [0.5] { 255	50	0 255	50	0 } // RED    - reset ratio
EncBtnA16 FXParam 37  [0.5] { 165 255   0 165 255   0 } // GREEN  - reset output gain to 0 dB
ZoneEnd
__________________
(Video)Using Latch Preview - Faderport16 CSI v1.0 config
Airon Audio Dia/FX Edit&Mix
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2021, 04:30 PM   #27
helgoboss
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 793
Default Hints for ReaLearn users

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
You're very welcome.

FWIW though, I moved on from this setup and got into CSI.

That's really great as well, is being actively developed and has a great community of users.

CSI allows control over acceleration and that's a complete game changer. Customizing exactly how the knob reacts is unbelievable. MFT encoder LED feedback is also implemented. Among many many other things. CSI is where it's at for sure.
Hints for ReaLearn users:
  • You can control the effect of encoder acceleration by adjusting the "Step size Min/Max" sliders ("Speed Min/Max" in case of targets with discrete values). "Step size Min" sets the step size for the slowest encoder turn and "Step size Max" for the hypothetically fastest encoder turn. Everything inbetween ends up somewhere within that range (without applying scaling, just addition).
  • In CSI you configure the value for each "inbetween acceleration" separately, so you can achieve non-linear acceleration behavior. I personally haven't encountered a scenario in which I would need this amount of control over acceleration. However, if someone wants to see this in ReaLearn, please raise an FR at GitHub, it's easy to add.
  • The video mentioned by cjewellstudios is still referring to ReaLearn 1 and is therefore a bit outdated. In ReaLearn 2 you can have specific mappings for the currently focused effect window without requiring "LBX Smart Knobs", just by using "Auto-load: Depending on focused FX" (as explained in tutorial 3 in the user guide).

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
WIth velocity each knob in a relative mode produces 11 different values in either direction which you can pin to whatever speed you want in CSI.

In CSI you describe the hardware with one file(*.mst) and anything you do with it in Zone files (*.zon).

For each encoder in relative mode and velocity enables, run
Code:
widget RotaryA1
	MFTEncoder   b0 00 7f [ < 3f 3e 3d 3c 3b 3a 39 38 36 33 2f > 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 4a 4d 51 ]
	FB_Fader7Bit b0 00 7f
WidgetEnd
In a Zone file I'll usually have it setup to control the focused effect window.

And there it depends on the effect I'm using. For example, Valhalla Room has a really annoying parameter range for Decay that is very poorly geared towards control surface/knob users.

Its values from 0 to 1.0 are represent a value range of 0 to 100, linearly!!!!

So I have the Decay setup this way for the Midi Fight Twisters relative+velocity knob:
Code:
RotaryA3  FXParam 2 "decay"          [ (0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001,0.001) ]
That's the lowest CSI will go. A resolution of effectively 0.1 seconds for the decay parameter.
In case anyone wants to achieve the same with ReaLearn, here's how to do it:

1. Choose controller preset "DJ TechTools Midi Fighter Twister" (in the controller compartment).
  • The encoder mappings in the Twister controller preset are preconfigured to allow full acceleration.
  • For CSI users: Controller presets are the counterpart of CSI's MST files. Controller mappings (contained in a controller preset) are the counterpart of CSI's widgets.

2. Customize each of your main mappings (in the main compartment).
  • For having the same fine-grained control over e.g. ValhallaRoom's delay parameter as Airon mentioned above, set "Step size Min/Max" to 0.1% by entering it into the text field next to the slider (0.1% corresponds to CSI value 0.001).
  • If you want even more fine-grained control, enter an even lower percentage such as 0.01% (which corresponds to CSI value 0.0001).
  • If you want very fine-grained control from 0 to 1% of the available delay range, less fine-grained control from 1% to 10% and coarse-grained control from 10% to 100%, you can use the "Value sequence" field (available in the latest ReaLearn prereleases). Enter "0 - 1 (0.01), 1 - 10 (0.25), 10 - 100". If the plug-in supports REAPER VST extensions (ValhallaRoom doesn't) or if you control something like REAPER's native track volume, you can also enter values in the native target unit here (e.g. dB).
  • For CSI users: Main presets (for reusing main mappings) are the counterpart of CSI's zone files. Main mappings (contained in a main preset) are the counterpart of CSI's zone file entries.
helgoboss is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.