Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Q&A, Tips, Tricks and Howto

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-15-2017, 11:35 PM   #1
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default how do i use automation to change presets in Kontakt/Soundust istrument

I would like to be able to change between presets in SoundDust's Infundibulum using the automation lanes. Infundibulum is a Kontakt instrument. I have tried automating the Bank/Program selection parameter but with no success. Any ideas how to do this?
thanks, Eddy
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 01:06 AM   #2
jrengmusic
Human being with feelings
 
jrengmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indonesia Raya
Posts: 673
Default

Insert ReaControl MIDI before Kontakt.

Automate ReaControl MIDI parameters corresponds to Kontakt parameters.
__________________
JRENG! | M E T R I C
jrengmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 01:18 AM   #3
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrengmusic View Post
Insert ReaControl MIDI before Kontakt.

Automate ReaControl MIDI parameters corresponds to Kontakt parameters.
Thanks but I dont understand this at all.
With reacontrolmidi I get a bank/program select section where I can put in MSB and LSB (I have no idea what values they should take) and a value for program - which I also have no idea about. What values should they take and how is that different to using the controller lane where I have tried lots of different values for program and msb/lsb
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 01:39 AM   #4
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 10,996
Default

You can use "Slider to Midi PS", doing exactly this (available via ReaPack).

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 01:48 AM   #5
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
You can use "Slider to Midi PS", doing exactly this (available via ReaPack).

-Michael
thanks but how would I go about importing that - I can see it when I browse reapack but I cant see it when I try and use an action
EDIT - aah i see it is a JSFX - got ait and thanks, I will have a play and see what happens. I thought all reapack stuff was actions

Last edited by Eddy; 12-16-2017 at 01:55 AM.
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 02:17 AM   #6
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

that works beautifully - thank you for that. It still does not change the presets in Kontakt so I am assuming that is something on the Kontakt end of things. But I can see the slider is changing values. Now to see what is the issue on the Kontakt side

EDIT - looks like Kontakt has no way for automating preset selection - you have to save each preset separately as a new instrument then drag that instrument into a new instrument bank - man do they need to improve that!

Last edited by Eddy; 12-16-2017 at 02:31 AM.
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 02:42 AM   #7
vanhaze
Human being with feelings
 
vanhaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,222
Default

You mean this workflow is cumbersome for you ?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv9bAM_8Lps
__________________
Reaper - OSX (always latest version)
Intel Mac Mini 2018 ~ OSX Big Sur (always latest version)
My Reaper Tips&Tricks: https://www.youtube.com/user/vanhaze2000/playlists
vanhaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 02:53 AM   #8
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze View Post
You mean this workflow is cumbersome for you ?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv9bAM_8Lps
lol - "cumbersome" - hmm that's a loaded word. Are you trying to set me up as having some sort of moral weakness, like being lazy or something similar?

I saw that video and obviously that process is very "cumbersome" compared to directly accessing the presets. If the instrument - in my case Infundibulum - does not have each preset saved as a separate instrument instance then I am going to have to load each preset and save it separately, then go through that process outlined in the video. That is obviously much slower than accessing the presets directly.
Now maybe there is a quick way for saving the presets out - in which case great, that will save some time, but will still not be as easy as accessing the presets directly.Perhaps I am not using the correct term - perhaps I am thinking of "snapshots" in which my apologies for being misleading. But then what would be a preset in Kontakt?

Last edited by Eddy; 12-16-2017 at 02:58 AM.
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 03:03 AM   #9
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 10,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
that works beautifully - thank you for that. It still does not change the presets in Kontakt so I am assuming that is something on the Kontakt end of things. But I can see the slider is changing values. Now to see what is the issue on the Kontakt side

EDIT - looks like Kontakt has no way for automating preset selection - you have to save each preset separately as a new instrument then drag that instrument into a new instrument bank - man do they need to improve that!
The plugin issues Program Change Midi messages that will reach Kontakt which needs to be placed below it.

To have Kontakt respond to Program Change messages you need to use instrument banks. Kontakt will activate the instrument slot corresponding to the program change.

If you want to manage "presets" of any plugin, you can have Reaper save a preset to have it push it onto the plugin later. Automating this might be more demanding, though - and with Kontakt the reaction on such a preset change can take several seconds.

I use SWS LiveConfigs to manage such stuff in Realtime.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 03:05 AM   #10
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

thanks Michael - many things to explore
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 03:10 AM   #11
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 10,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
many things to explore
Did you read the "about" page provided by "Slider to Midi PS" in ReaPack ?

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 03:15 AM   #12
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Did you read the "about" page provided by "Slider to Midi PS" in ReaPack ?

-Michael
no - I automated it and observed Kontakt - but I will read it now. I think the problem is that what I was calling a preset is called a snapshot in Kontakt - and it appears they cannot be accessed through automation. After reading the about page and yur email it looks like liveconfig might give me access to the snapshots
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 03:32 AM   #13
vanhaze
Human being with feelings
 
vanhaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,222
Default

"lol - "cumbersome" - hmm that's a loaded word. Are you trying to set me up as having some sort of moral weakness, like being lazy or something similar?"

Eaze down, the only sincere one thing i wanted to do is trying to help you.
Totally no second meaning behind the word "cumbersome"
__________________
Reaper - OSX (always latest version)
Intel Mac Mini 2018 ~ OSX Big Sur (always latest version)
My Reaper Tips&Tricks: https://www.youtube.com/user/vanhaze2000/playlists
vanhaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 04:01 AM   #14
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze View Post
"lol - "cumbersome" - hmm that's a loaded word. Are you trying to set me up as having some sort of moral weakness, like being lazy or something similar?"

Eaze down, the only sincere one thing i wanted to do is trying to help you.
Totally no second meaning behind the word "cumbersome"
well spoken - my apologies, I am indeed a bit testy tonight. Thanks for your help
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 04:27 AM   #15
vanhaze
Human being with feelings
 
vanhaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,222
Default

Hi Eddy, no problem at all.
I appreciate your apologies, thank you.
__________________
Reaper - OSX (always latest version)
Intel Mac Mini 2018 ~ OSX Big Sur (always latest version)
My Reaper Tips&Tricks: https://www.youtube.com/user/vanhaze2000/playlists
vanhaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 05:44 AM   #16
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 10,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
liveconfig might give me access to the snapshots
Yep. But to trigger LiveConfigs by automation is yet an additional task...

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 09:06 AM   #17
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 13,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
I would like to be able to change between presets in SoundDust's Infundibulum using the automation lanes. Infundibulum is a Kontakt instrument. I have tried automating the Bank/Program selection parameter but with no success. Any ideas how to do this?
thanks, Eddy
Did you try the "Bank/Program change" as an envelope in the arrange area, or using the CC lane in the Midi Editor?

I'm assuming Infundibulum uses "PC" changes, it would say so in the manual. If indeed it does take "PC" changes, the CC lane in the Midi Editor is the best way to use them.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 12:39 PM   #18
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Did you try the "Bank/Program change" as an envelope in the arrange area, or using the CC lane in the Midi Editor?

I'm assuming Infundibulum uses "PC" changes, it would say so in the manual. If indeed it does take "PC" changes, the CC lane in the Midi Editor is the best way to use them.
thanks - I did try that and unfortunately it doesn't work. I think the problem is that what everyone else would call a preset is called a snapshot in Kontakt, and snapshots are not accessible using automation of any sort. I found a post in the NI forums by Evil Dragon that seemed to say that.
I guess a Kontakt "instrument" is actually an instrument (say, violins) within an instrument (Kontakt) and then a snapshot is encased even further within that.
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 12:52 PM   #19
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 10,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
trigger LiveConfigs by automation is yet an additional task
I don't know if this is as "cumbersome" as what the video offers.

You would still use "Slider To Midi PC" to generate a PC message.

Then "S&M PC to CC" to translate it to a CC message.

The MidiToReaControlPath to send the message to the Reaper Control Path midi bus, where LiveConfigs will receive it.

It might be worth the effort, as LiveConfigs is very versatile. Search the forums for "LiveConfigs" to learn more about it.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 12-16-2017 at 01:02 PM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 03:15 PM   #20
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 13,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
thanks - I did try that and unfortunately it doesn't work. I think the problem is that what everyone else would call a preset is called a snapshot in Kontakt, and snapshots are not accessible using automation of any sort. I found a post in the NI forums by Evil Dragon that seemed to say that.
Aah snapshots, yeah.

Quote:
I guess a Kontakt "instrument" is actually an instrument (say, violins) within an instrument (Kontakt) and then a snapshot is encased even further within that.
Actually Kontakt is a "Sample Player", most VSTi plugins are some kind of sample player, synth, or sound module of some kind.

I assume Infundibulum is some kind of synth, is it the only instrument you are using in Kontakt?

What you could do is have 16 Infundibulum instruments in one instance of Konatakt, each having their own Snapshot as well as Midi Channel.

There are various ways you can access the the 16 midi channels, it mainly depends on how your using your midi, and whether you're playing it live or not.

I find it hard to understand why they are using snapshots instead of program changes. Have you thoroughly read the manual. Maybe there's another way.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 03:33 PM   #21
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Aah snapshots, yeah.



Actually Kontakt is a "Sample Player", most VSTi plugins are some kind of sample player, synth, or sound module of some kind.

I assume Infundibulum is some kind of synth, is it the only instrument you are using in Kontakt?

What you could do is have 16 Infundibulum instruments in one instance of Konatakt, each having their own Snapshot as well as Midi Channel.

There are various ways you can access the the 16 midi channels, it mainly depends on how your using your midi, and whether you're playing it live or not.

I find it hard to understand why they are using snapshots instead of program changes. Have you thoroughly read the manual. Maybe there's another way.
there are definitely workarounds - vanhaze linked out to a video that indicates a way to get around the limitation. Separate instances as you mention is another way. I was hoping to get what I wanted much more directly but it does seem to be a limitation of Kontakt (according to an Evil Dragon post from 2016)
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 04:00 PM   #22
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 13,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
there are definitely workarounds - vanhaze linked out to a video that indicates a way to get around the limitation. Separate instances as you mention is another way. I was hoping to get what I wanted much more directly but it does seem to be a limitation of Kontakt (according to an Evil Dragon post from 2016)
Actually it's not a limitation, Snapshots were never intended to be used in the same way CCs are used, like for example PC changes.

I just looked at the link Vanhaze posted and that seems like it could be the ticket.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 11:17 PM   #23
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Actually it's not a limitation, Snapshots were never intended to be used in the same way CCs are used, like for example PC changes.

I just looked at the link Vanhaze posted and that seems like it could be the ticket.
Seems a limitation to me because snapshots are parameter changes which are fast whereas program changes are slow because they are between different instruments and require reloading of samples. I would think quickly changing between parameter settings was a fairly standard way to use automation.
Doesn’t matter what the intention is if the intention is needlessly limiting.
But I might be missing something, I certainly hope so
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 01:54 AM   #24
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 10,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
snapshots are parameter changes which are fast whereas program changes are slow because they are between different instruments and require reloading of samples.
Wrong !

In Kontakt, midi PCs are used to select instruments from banks. All instruments in a bank are loaded when loading the bank. So switching patches by PCs is fast with Kontakt.

Using Reaper presets with Kontakt (not "Kontakt Snapshots") is slow, as here the instrument is re-loaded (or a new instrument gets loaded).

SWS LiveConfigs can handle Reaper presets directly. When using LiveConfigs with Kontakt for fast patch change, the way to go is use SliderToMidiPC to convert a preset change to a PC message (see my LiveConfigs User Guide).

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 12-17-2017 at 01:59 AM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 02:16 AM   #25
Eddy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Wrong !

In Kontakt, midi PCs are used to select instruments from banks. All instruments in a bank are loaded when loading the bank. So switching patches by PCs is fast with Kontakt.

Using Reaper presets with Kontakt (not "Kontakt Snapshots") is slow, as here the instrument is re-loaded (or a new instrument gets loaded).

SWS LiveConfigs can handle Reaper presets directly. When using LiveConfigs with Kontakt for fast patch change, the way to go is use SliderToMidiPC to convert a preset change to a PC message (see my LiveConfigs User Guide).

-Michael
good and bad news there Michael - snapshots are what I would prefer but banks are okay. They do not solve my problem with Infundibulum without me saving each snapshot as a separate instrument - which is possible but gonna be tedious.
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 03:30 AM   #26
craniumstudioindia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 6
Default THank you so much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Did you try the "Bank/Program change" as an envelope in the arrange area, or using the CC lane in the Midi Editor?

I'm assuming Infundibulum uses "PC" changes, it would say so in the manual. If indeed it does take "PC" changes, the CC lane in the Midi Editor is the best way to use them.
Hello amigo, many many thanks! Both work like a charm! Although I did have to insert ReaControlMIDI before Kontakt and check the Bank/Program select option, and enable "control change" option, choose "bank select" in one of the drop downs, and THEN, it would show up under the track envelope automation as an envelope. Also, for some reason, for me, the "Program" lane in the MIDI editor works instead of "Bank/Program change", and I am unsure why. THank you so much though for highlighting the difference, as I would not have been able to think of this myself!!!
craniumstudioindia is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.