Old 07-30-2018, 10:45 AM   #41
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Thanks as always Karbo... I was again trying to PM you but there still is that problem of there being no listing of a PM link for you ... bummer... and PITA that the admins can fix that... WTF???

anyway... yes, I have always had the pref, "Allow complete unload of VST..." selected.

and thinking further... even though it may be related to a certain plugin or two, I've seen it do this hang or crash on occasion with no plugins loaded...

The data in the last report was with one plugin [Halion6], on one track, with a little midi and then freezing the track and then making a dupe of the audio from the frozen track.... not anything very complex, eh?

Maybe we can get Justin to have a look here... I'll try that

will also try that procdump command and see what we get
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:49 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
I was again trying to PM you but there still is that problem of there being no listing of a PM link for you ... bummer... and PITA that the admins can fix that... WTF???
I have no idea why that occurs, drives me crazy sometimes because people may want to contact me and can't. Ollie looked for me in the past and we couldn't find a problem, yet there seems to be one. I'll PM you in a moment and you should be able to reply to that.

Quote:
will also try that procdump command and see what we get
Sure, let me know if you get a new dump.
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:51 AM   #43
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Quote:
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\System32>procdump -i c:\temp
'procdump' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

C:\Windows\System32>
hmmm.... running cmd as admin... I get this response
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:56 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
hmmm.... running cmd as admin... I get this response
Ah, my bad... when running CMD as admin it defaults to the system directory.

I think we had originally placed procdump in C:\temp so you can probably get by with using "CD" to get you there from where you are now...

C:\Windows\System32> CD C:\Temp
C:\Temp> procdump -i c:\temp
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:14 AM   #45
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thanks much that did it...

maybe now we will see what dmp's we can get...
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:41 PM   #46
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shoot... here's another one

open reaper
new empty project
one new track
one midi item on track
close reaper and get a hang and it won't close
here is one report:

Quote:
Log Name: Application
Source: Application Hang
Date: 7/30/2018 1:25:33 PM
Event ID: 1002
Task Category: (101)
Level: Error
Keywords: Classic
User: N/A
Computer: z-PC
Description:
The program reaper.exe version 5.9.3.11 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed. To see if more information about the problem is available, check the problem history in the Action Center control panel.
Process ID: 1964
Start Time: 01d42842a9839740
Termination Time: 60000
Application Path: D:\Reaper 64 Portable\reaper.exe
Report Id: 601ccee3-9436-11e8-9dc6-005056c00008

Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Application Hang" />
<EventID Qualifiers="0">1002</EventID>
<Level>2</Level>
<Task>101</Task>
<Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2018-07-30T20:25:33.000000000Z" />
<EventRecordID>846271</EventRecordID>
<Channel>Application</Channel>
<Computer>z-PC</Computer>
<Security />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data>reaper.exe</Data>
<Data>5.9.3.11</Data>
<Data>1964</Data>
<Data>01d42842a9839740</Data>
<Data>60000</Data>
<Data>D:\Reaper 64 Portable\reaper.exe</Data>
<Data>601ccee3-9436-11e8-9dc6-005056c00008</Data>
<Binary>55006E006B006E006F0077006E0000000000</Binary>
</EventData>
</Event>
and here is another for the same event:

Quote:
Description:
A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
Application Name: reaper.exe
Application Version: 5.9.3.11
Application Timestamp: 5b4f75ab
Hang Signature: 4b46
Hang Type: 0
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Hang Signature 1: 4b4693f3233418b2d460e00afbf8a2c3
Additional Hang Signature 2: 52f2
Additional Hang Signature 3: 52f2573b4ef588725798ab1139e519ae
Additional Hang Signature 4: 4b46
Additional Hang Signature 5: 4b4693f3233418b2d460e00afbf8a2c3
Additional Hang Signature 6: 52f2
Additional Hang Signature 7: 52f2573b4ef588725798ab1139e519ae
Karbo... the procdump though installed via the cmd did nothing to catch this or to create a dmp file.... darn it
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:46 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
Karbo... the procdump though installed via the cmd did nothing to catch this or to create a dmp file.... darn it
Yep, makes sense since it isn't truly a crash. When this happens, if you can look before it goes away, I'd be curious if Reaper is using any CPU while "hung" via task manager - if 0%, it may be a deadlock but this may A) occur too fast to check and B) not help us beyond knowing that, maybe Justin or Schwa/Ollie can chime in.
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:56 PM   #48
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next time I will look at the process cpu....
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:36 PM   #49
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I had situations like that in reaper, random crashes, or reaper not stopping after close. But it seams random, happening every now and then.

Your pc might have a virus you know.

Or its a registry mismatch - download free cc cleaner.

Or it might be a mechanical fault: ram, hdd, ssd.

Might be windows update, try uninstalling it, or run recovery and pick date from before this started happening if possible. If this wont help, reinstal windows.
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:47 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
next time I will look at the process cpu....
Sounds good, just a tidbit on this message:

Quote:
The program reaper.exe version 5.9.3.11 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed
When any interaction from the OS sends a 'message' to an application, whether that be a mouse click, keyboard stroke or even just "checking in" every so often. The application must respond "yep, I'm here", if it doesn't respond the OS goes into a "dude isn't listening" routine, after a couple of these unanswered messages from OS to application, the OS will respond or intervene.

It's entirely possible a plugin, as reaper is unloading has caused some situation where everyone is waiting on everyone else. Let's say reaper is holding resource A but needs resource B to close, but the plugin is holding resource B because it needs resource A to finish what it is doing with B - this is a deadlock because this situation can never recover - the only reason I'm wondering about CPU is that if it is a deadlock the CPU often drops to zero (because everyone is waiting instead of doing work) - knowing that isn't going to give you or I the reason it occurred though.

If we were to take a manual dump while it is hung it may tell us but since the OS has already intervened by the time we know, we may not get good information - just some babbling based on what we know thus far.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:15 AM   #51
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seems like good thinking to me Karbo.... and, well, we can only try... which I will do at the next hang.
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:49 AM   #52
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I had a similar scenario a while back, in my case it turned out to be reaper.ini file had somehow been corrupted. I renamed it and restarted Reaper, then used the newly created ini file to repair the old one via copy and paste.
I doubt your solution will turn out to be so simple, but it's worth a try.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:12 AM   #53
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OK then still looking for help... atten. to Karbo please have a look at this which is copied from the cmd window with procdump running during a reaper hang of the kind that won't close without a reboot.
Quote:
C:\Windows\System32>C:\temp\procdump -e reaper.exe

ProcDump v9.0 - Sysinternals process dump utility
Copyright (C) 2009-2017 Mark Russinovich and Andrew Richards
Sysinternals - www.sysinternals.com

Process: reaper.exe (29936)
Process image: D:\Reaper 64 Portable\reaper.exe
CPU threshold: n/a
Performance counter: n/a
Commit threshold: n/a
Threshold seconds: n/a
Hung window check: Disabled
Log debug strings: Disabled
Exception monitor: Unhandled
Exception filter: [Includes]
*
[Excludes]
Terminate monitor: Disabled
Cloning type: Disabled
Concurrent limit: n/a
Avoid outage: n/a
Number of dumps: 1
Dump folder: C:\Windows\System32\
Dump filename/mask: PROCESSNAME_YYMMDD_HHMMSS
Queue to WER: Disabled
Kill after dump: Disabled


Press Ctrl-C to end monitoring without terminating the process.

[05:44:49] Exception: E06D7363.?AVerror@exceptions@asw@@
[05:44:50] Exception: 000006BA

************************************************** ************************************
[My NOTES:]

so reaper hung when trying to close [yet again]
it also seems like prodump stopped at the point shown above and
I find no .dmp file created in System32 folder

I also ran task manager and had it create a dump file, which it says it did
and says it saved it in App Data\Local but searching for it there finds nothing..

WTF?
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:04 AM   #54
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BTW... and for whatever it may be worth..... it is only reaper that does this [at least so far].... nothing else I run refuses to close properly....

so ...we seem to be guessing that somehow reaper and windows lose communication with eachother.... but since it is only reaper that does this might that be some sort of a clue???
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:14 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
OK then still looking for help... atten. to Karbo please have a look at this which is copied from the cmd window with procdump running during a reaper hang of the kind that won't close without a reboot.
It looks like reaper may not actually be crashing hence the reason procdump didn't trigger which exactly matches what I was describing before:

Quote:
The program reaper.exe version 5.9.3.11 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed
Add -h to the procdump command, this will cause it to dump if the OS thinks it is hung.

C:\temp\procdump -e -h reaper.exe

FWIW this still sounds like a potential deadlock to me but the command above should catch it. When/if it dumps with those params, let me know. If I can't figure it out, you should send a link to Ollie/Justin/Schwa to see if they can look as they have reaper source/symbols that I don't have and would require less reverse engineering to figure out the problem. But I could get lucky.

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Old 08-11-2018, 10:40 AM   #56
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Wow hopi, this has been going on for a while now.

I know nothing about this inner stuff, but you're in good hands with Karbo.

I haven't read the whole thread, have you tried the the later ones, I think we're up to Reaper 5.95 now?

I'm still sitting on Reaper 5.70 for my main work version, although I've got several portable installs so
I do try out the newer ones as they come out. I've run into little problems so I keep using 5.70. For the
most part I think these problems have been "settings" changes or additions, but I haven't had the time to
track them down.

I know nothing about this stuff, but if there's anything I can do, let me know.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:18 AM   #57
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Thanks Karbo... that was actually something I wanted to know so you read my mind...

in the same vein, right now procdump says it will dump to System 32 folder
is there a way to add to the command to have it dump to some other place of my choosing?

I'll try that command...


and thanks for the kind words Tod... always appreciated!
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:34 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
is there a way to add to the command to have it dump to some other place of my choosing?
Yes... But let's get fancy and not only point the dump to be written to the temp folder but also to create three of them so I can see if anything is changing between dumps:

C:\temp\procdump -e -h -n 3 reaper.exe C:\Temp\
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:45 PM   #59
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Karbo... just sent you a PM... hopefully we now have a set of dmp files that might get us somewhere.
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:40 AM   #60
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So, I can't tell much because I don't have access to Reaper's symbols for dumps. The main thing I find interesting is the thread below. Most threads are either sleeping or "waiting on something else" which 'could' be this thread.

This thread appears to be the active thread in all 4 dumps and what I don't understand is why CSurf is using Winsock. It looks like it is trying to close a network connection and that it may not be able to, but it's a guess - nevertheless it sits there for a minute or two and that should have only taken less than 1 second so that makes it interesting.

What control surface are you using? Faderport/FaderportXT or some other control surface? I don't understand why it's calling into the network stack. Are you using the web control surface? Not sure if it uses csurf but if it does, that explains network part. You could try removing the control surface for a bit (whatever it is) but I have no real proof other than the below that that may be it.

It also looks like this is the GUI thread, you closed Reaper, it's trying to clean up and gets stuck trying to close the control surface's network connection - it's also possible that since I don't have symbols, that the debugger could be completely lying to me. If it isn't that we need Justin et al to look but sitting there for so long trying to close a network connection just doesn't seem right.

ntdll!NtClose
mswsock!SockCloseSocket
mswsock!WSPCloseSocket
ws2_32!closesocket

reaper_csurf
reaper_csurf
reaper_csurf
reaper_csurf

reaper
reaper
user32!UserCallDlgProcCheckWow
user32!DefDlgProcWorker
user32!DefDlgProcA
user32!UserCallWinProcCheckWow
user32!DispatchClientMessage
user32!_fnDWORD
ntdll!KiUserCallbackDispatcherContinue
user32!ZwUserMessageCall
user32!RealDefWindowProcWorker
user32!RealDefWindowProcA
uxtheme!DoMsgDefault
uxtheme!OnDwpSysCommand
uxtheme!_ThemeDefWindowProc
uxtheme!ThemeDefWindowProcA
user32!DefWindowProcA
user32!DefWindowProcWorker
user32!DefDlgProcWorker
user32!DefDlgProcA
user32!UserCallWinProcCheckWow
user32!DispatchClientMessage
user32!_fnDWORD
ntdll!KiUserCallbackDispatcherContinue
user32!ZwUserMessageCall
user32!RealDefWindowProcWorker
…..

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Old 08-12-2018, 11:14 AM   #61
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ah interesting thoughts....

my audio interface is the m-audio profire 2626
so it is a firewire device... no other FW's on this PC
control 'surface' is only a midi keyboard with knobs and sliders

I do have the reaper web interface active but rarely actually use it so I'll try to remove that and see what we see....

Of course the 'strange' thing would be that the web thingy has been active in this reaper for a long time with zero problems... but hey, it's worth a try...

Thank you so much...
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:25 AM   #62
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update: so I removed the web interface from pref's and have run reaper about 5 times to test and it has behaved OK so far... but I don't yet trust that because I've seen it do that before and then go into a series of hangs...

hoping to hear something from support about the dmp's I sent to them.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
update: so I removed the web interface from pref's and have run reaper about 5 times to test and it has behaved OK so far... but I don't yet trust that because I've seen it do that before and then go into a series of hangs...
I would agree with that sentiment. Let's see how long/if it lasts.
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:39 PM   #64
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just to say... still working OK so far... but too paranoid to not run the cmd with each reaper launch...

I'll keep that up for awhile yet
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:46 PM   #65
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I was about to post and ask how it was going, thanks for the update.

That said, IF this is the issue, that mswsock!SockCloseSocket call doesn't appear to be blocked by anything other than the network stack in the OS etc. so if that turns out to be it, Justin needs to know because even if environmental to your setup, it would be nice to not lock reaper indefinitely waiting for a network connection you no longer need.

Depending on how it's blocked, not sure if that presents uglier issues (because it doesn't look like reaper's fault specifically) but thought I'd mention provided I don't jinx it by saying so.
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Old 08-17-2018, 03:15 PM   #66
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thanks as ever Karbo... that thinking is too deep for poor little me, but Justin should know IF he is watching this and IF the support guys took a look at the dmp files I sent to them... I got notice that they did dl them but have heard nothing from them as to anything they may have noticed in them.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:36 AM   #67
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update so far... so good

no hangs but I do keep running with the cmd open just in case

never did hear back from support@cockos.com ...strange
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:50 AM   #68
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update so far... so good
Good to hear. I feel pretty OK with what we saw in the dumps last time, it seemed to be obviously waiting on a network connection to close so fingers still crossed.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:50 PM   #69
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How's this going?
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:10 PM   #70
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You may need to experiment to determine the source of the hang. Does it happen on ALL projects? If not, what's different? Does it happen without an open project? Go to your plugins directory and move some of them out of the path. Use a cut in half type of process of elimination till you see which plugin is hanging. Or alternatively start removing plugs from a project one at a time until the problem disappears.

Just because your rollback of Reaper made a difference that doesn't mean it's necessarily a Reaper issue specifically. Although my own philosophy is once a system is working I don't rush to update with every bug release unless it is addressing a problem I have already specifically identified. Best to let a release stew for awhile before jumping on board if you can.

IMPORTANT: create restore points often, at least once a day. If you have plenty of restore points it can help track down the problem. Name your restore points by day, day and other descriptive info. Definitely create restore points before ANY installation of new plugins or software.

Also, when it hangs try turning off all firewire devices and unplugging USB devices one at a time before doing a hard reset and see if the problem clears. Also try unplugging the network cable or going to your CP and disabling the network card.

Lastly make sure you are using all the latest drivers from your motherboard manufacturer site. I recently fought for days with a computer that would hang installing an update requiring a hard reset. After installing the latest chipset driver the problem vanished.

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Old 09-21-2018, 06:14 PM   #71
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You may need to experiment to determine the source of the hang.
We decided to get memory hang dumps instead which have no choice but to tell the truth minus a couple of exceptions. He didn't rollback a driver, he turned off the component that appears to be causing the issue - since it is something you only enable when you are using it anyway. I still think it's a potential bug or corner case in his setup exposing it.

Either way until it reoccurs with the web controller disabled, and I look at new dumps to confirm the stack changed, I assume/hope it's the stuck socket.

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Old 09-21-2018, 07:50 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
We decided to get memory hang dumps instead which have no choice but to tell the truth minus a couple of exceptions. He didn't rollback a driver, he turned off the component that appears to be causing the issue - since it is something you only enable when you are using it anyway. I still think it's a potential bug or corner case in his setup exposing it.

Either way until it reoccurs with the web controller disabled, and I look at new dumps to confirm the stack changed, I assume/hope it's the stuck socket.
Sounds perfectly plausible to me.
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:08 AM   #73
hopi
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Karbo solved this crash problem for me... at least for now and I'm OK just having the web control disabled for now.... I did not really use it much anyway.

It is curious that it was working fine at one point so maybe it is a bug... but if it was that easy, I'd expect others to notice it...

anyway.... my reaper is back to not crashing now
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