Old 09-11-2017, 01:52 PM   #1
Monroy
Human being with feelings
 
Monroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 225
Default Guitar in stereo sounds great. In mono very bad

Hi,

Have you some recording technique for good guitar sound in mono? I have two hi gain tracks which plays same riff (hard panned), but when I switch to mono they sounds much worse.
Monroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 01:56 PM   #2
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 19,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroy View Post
Hi,

Have you some recording technique for good guitar sound in mono? I have two hi gain tracks which plays same riff (hard panned), but when I switch to mono they sounds much worse.
Are they the same performance? If so and one was delayed to create a Hass effect, that's the problem. Otherwise, might be better to hear it or understand more about what much worse means.
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 02:20 PM   #3
nightscope
Human being with feelings
 
nightscope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,003
Default

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...ars-phase.html

ns
nightscope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 02:30 PM   #4
Monroy
Human being with feelings
 
Monroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 225
Default

Two tracks was recorded as double tracking - first pass and then second pass on second track.
Monroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 03:05 PM   #5
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 10,589
Default

If the two tracks were played separately there should be little problem, however, two instruments playing exactly the same parts can have phasing issues.

As we all know, phasing problems occur when the same frequencies are 180 degrees out of phase. So the same instrument playing the same part could indeed have some frequencies out phase, but I think at the worst, it would just give a chorusing effect. Don't know for sure.

If it's single note lines, it could maybe be worse. Heh heh, never ran into it before, it would be interesting to hear.
Tod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 12:39 AM   #6
kstn
Human being with feelings
 
kstn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroy View Post
Two tracks was recorded as double tracking - first pass and then second pass on second track.
Have this tracks the same fx chain (compressor, eq, amp\cabinet impulses, etc) on each?

Could you share a sample of this guitars?
kstn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 03:03 AM   #7
Monroy
Human being with feelings
 
Monroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 225
Default

Here's some examples. The same amp, two different kind of guitars (strat and superstrat) with different mic placement and cabinets. Panned 60/60%. No EQ, comps etc, just RAW.

Riff 1 STEREO:
http://picosong.com/wwRWK

Riff 1 MONO:
http://picosong.com/wwRWp

Riff 2 STEREO:
http://picosong.com/wwRvw

Riff 2 MONO
http://picosong.com/wwRve
Monroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 04:32 AM   #8
kstn
Human being with feelings
 
kstn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroy View Post
different mic placement and cabinets.
So, that's the root of the problem. Imho the best way (if you want to record different mics, positions, cabs) is:

1. Record the first guitar and pan it to center
2. Take another guitar, cab etc and find sound which you like
3. Change mics, mic positions, etc until 2 guitars will sound good when panned to center (eg in mono).
4. Then, and only then check them panned hard

BTW afair "panned hard" isn't 60/60, but 100/100, isn't it?

If you didn't want to re-record your tracks you can try:

1. Add some delay (0.01-20 ms, more likely 0.01-5ms) to one track. It may change phase issues. Or may not.

2. Put 2 guitars to the folder track, then use plugin chain M\S Encoder->EQ->MS Decoder. This way EQ's left channel will eq center and right channel will eq side. Then cut low on the side, and add low on the center. As I understand from examples "when I switch to mono they sounds much worse" is less low (or low mids).

PS Some EQ's can do this without encoder-decoder.

But the first way is better.

Last edited by kstn; 09-12-2017 at 04:46 AM.
kstn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 09:40 AM   #9
Monroy
Human being with feelings
 
Monroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstn View Post
As I understand from examples "when I switch to mono they sounds much worse" is less low (or low mids).
Not quite. "Sounds much worse" I mean is something like "chorus" effect, sometimes like "flanger". I do not know where it comes from...
Monroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 10:49 AM   #10
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 19,090
Default

I'll try to listen later - The only issue I've ever had with real double tracking is phantom mono occurring when both tracks just happen to hit a sweet spot of sameness. High gain does get more susceptible to problems since less gain tends to be more individual minutia wise. Simple changes in mic position etc. though should minimize most problems. Either way will listen later when I have time.
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 01:31 PM   #11
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 10,589
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroy View Post
Here's some examples.
Hi Monroy, I have to say, the only difference I hear is normal between stereo and mono files.

Maybe the bad sound is high enough to be above my hearing which is lacking in the high end.

There's a little build up of the bottom making it a little muddier, but I'd say that's Pretty typical.

Heh heh, maybe it's just my ears.
Tod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 01:43 PM   #12
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 19,090
Default

Quote:
Heh heh, maybe it's just my ears.
I don't think it is.

I agree with Tod. I only hear what you lose because it isn't stereo. All the metering I have nearby (I'm not home), nd my ears, tells me everything is just fine.
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.

Last edited by karbomusic; 09-12-2017 at 02:24 PM.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 02:32 PM   #13
Monroy
Human being with feelings
 
Monroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 225
Default

Thanks, is good news if you think that everything is ok - I think you've got more experience and better equipment than mine.

I'm experiment with some settings. At the moment I see that third guitar on center improve sound in mono - it little covers hard panned guitar.

Also I think that this "chorus" or "flanger" effect may comes from headphones - I mean I will check sound just on one speaker instead on headphones.

But... when I hear some professional recording with hudge guitars, after mono they are tight and sonically "at the point" even on headphones.

Last edited by Monroy; 09-12-2017 at 02:38 PM.
Monroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 07:19 PM   #14
vdubreeze
Human being with feelings
 
vdubreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 764
Default

I agree, doesn't sound awful in mono to me. Sounds pretty much like one would expect it to sound like.

It's worth pointing out that the chorus/flange you're hearing too much of for your taste is a totally normal by-product of doubled guitars that aren't panned out of each others' space. ("It's not a bug, it's a feature!!!") Changing guitars made it much less than it would have been by laying the second part down with the same everything. But that subtle modulating is something people often go for when doubling parts. Two different strats may be what's close enough to give you some. Try with two more different guitars and you'll get less of it. But it's kind of the nature of two strings struck on the same fret at the same time. They're going to interact. If you don't have another guitar available and want to have less of the doubled notes interacting in a chorusy way you can try not playing it at the same place on the neck with both, so the inversions will be different. As in, if it was a band rehearsal with two guitars you might say "Don't play those chords there because that's where I'm playing them. Play them up the neck."
__________________
The reason rain dances work is because they don't stop dancing until it rains.

MBP 10.10.4, MBP 10.6.8
vdubreeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 07:59 AM   #15
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 183
Default

The stereo is Louder?

(I finally get to say this...) Pan Law?

(also, monitor placement? room acoustics?)
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...

Last edited by jrk; 09-20-2017 at 08:06 AM.
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.