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Old 05-27-2020, 03:21 PM   #1
Sagittary
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Default The folly of relying on patches/presets

I've been making music for like 10 years now, and messing around virtual instruments for maybe 6.
Recently with all the time I had I decided to sit down and really check out those soft synths FOR REAL. So I apparently must have spent like 2-3 weeks trying out all those famous plugins like Diva, Zebra, Serum and some chiptune microsynths and D-50 and Juno emulations. (While at the same time switching from S1 to Reaper-another story).
So I was going through all those hundreds of presets of each of those synths(and downloading more and more of them), and maybe 3% I was finding useful, and was sorta comparing them by their preset banks (LOL) and I finally realized- man I would have learned all that synthesis inside-out by now!
WTF I'm even doing? I don't even remember the last time I tried to mess with the knobs!

I guess this stems from a bigger issue- the tendency to seek shortcuts.
Now that's something that just developed over years of "not having the time" logic I was driven by as a guitarist who wanted to spend most of the time practicing. I'm sure many of you can relate.

So I'm back to square one, not just with the synths but with DAW work in general. I mean for heaven's sake! Only recently I started to think about things such as "what does the waveform actually represent... and why is it not symmetrical?!" hehe.

But back to the presets thing. Whether they are shit or not, I think it's safe to say that you're going to get to the sound you want by yourself way faster then blindly going through the presets... If you know what you want.
Oh you don't really know what you want? Oh but you do! You wanted "some kind of lead sound" right? So what kind of lead sound? "some soft buzzy sound" wait what soft buzzy sound? bright or dark? round or sharp? Spacial or dry, rich or simple?

If you just ask those questions a lot you're gonna get there. And every time you're gonna get there faster. And having a context is going to make it way faster, because the song will tell you what kind of sounds it needs!

Of course you could be one of those typical edm producers who only listen to the most ubiquitous music and are totally satisfied with the stock Massive presets, but I am sadly not one of them lol.

So finally I loaded an 8bit chipsynth (Kraken I think), cranked it, added TAL chorus, added some kind of drive to distort it like hell, compressed the hell out of it, added a reverb and said to myself- this is the best sound I ever heard! LOL.

Now I know there are many different workflows and learning Reaper inside-out is helpful but one thing(or one of the things) that's going to determine your writing experience the most is the way you approach the instruments.

Are you just fucking around with sounds hoping to ignite a creative spark? That's fine, you can use presets like that.

Are you starting with an idea(in which case you already by default have a sound associated with them) and trying to find that sound in the preset bank? Good luck!

So I never realized this, but I'm MUCH more of a second case person.
I just think it's really important, REALLY REALLY important, okay VITALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT to be aware of which mindset you're in. Sure it's fine to just turn the thing on on totally random patch and just bang on the keys to just play around. In my case, it's the $10 Casio CTK keyboard I like to do it with. I must do more of that in fact!

DAMN OBVIOUS I KNOW. But I hope somewhere down the line this little rant will convince some dude who's so far proven to be totally immune to the "don't rely on presets!" advice hah.

Oh and hi everyone, my name is Johnny, glad to join . This is a very lovely community! Yadda yadda
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:30 PM   #2
Fergler
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Check this out
It sequentially adds more and more complexity
https://www.syntorial.com/

When I finally learned it was a cool session. 10 years ago or so I wanted to create the sound of hang drums and just couldn't find one. Used Logic's ES2 synth to get it eventually. I'd have to do it again... I'll probably use Tyrell N6 this time, which is my favourite.
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:15 AM   #3
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Why not try out the KVR "One Synth Challenge". In this you are told which free synth you can use on 1st of the month. You then have to submit an original fully finished track by the last day of the month. You can ONLY use sounds made by the synth! This includes all percussion etc - so in many cases, this will stretch your skills in sound design. You are also only allowed to use NATIVE DAW effects and 3rd party FREE non-modulating effects (e.g. NOT chorus, phaser, distortion, as they can change the native sound of the synth beyond recognition).

The current one is using Full Bucket's TRICENT. (Ends soon!!)

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...p?f=1&t=544685

Tracks are voted on by the participants (plus a few other KVR members). A good choice of prizes for the top 5 (an added incentive to enter!).

In the end, it does motivate you to write and produce something in the 1 month, and you can learn a lot from the others as well. Plenty of help and advice. ANY genre accepted.

It may not be for you, but might be worth a dip in ???

dB
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:26 AM   #4
Sagittary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
Check this out
It sequentially adds more and more complexity
https://www.syntorial.com/

When I finally learned it was a cool session. 10 years ago or so I wanted to create the sound of hang drums and just couldn't find one. Used Logic's ES2 synth to get it eventually. I'd have to do it again... I'll probably use Tyrell N6 this time, which is my favourite.
Yeah I've heard about this. Man it looks very comprehensive. So did you finish it?
Yeah I'm trying to recreate a very cool FL Harmless patch, but it's really hard to get it exact!
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:42 AM   #5
Sagittary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bob View Post
Why not try out the KVR "One Synth Challenge". In this you are told which free synth you can use on 1st of the month. You then have to submit an original fully finished track by the last day of the month. You can ONLY use sounds made by the synth! This includes all percussion etc - so in many cases, this will stretch your skills in sound design. You are also only allowed to use NATIVE DAW effects and 3rd party FREE non-modulating effects (e.g. NOT chorus, phaser, distortion, as they can change the native sound of the synth beyond recognition).

The current one is using Full Bucket's TRICENT. (Ends soon!!)

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...p?f=1&t=544685

Tracks are voted on by the participants (plus a few other KVR members). A good choice of prizes for the top 5 (an added incentive to enter!).

In the end, it does motivate you to write and produce something in the 1 month, and you can learn a lot from the others as well. Plenty of help and advice. ANY genre accepted.

It may not be for you, but might be worth a dip in ???

dB
Wow now that sounds fun!!
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:49 AM   #6
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It is fun - quite hard, so you have to think outside the box now and then. But, there are a number of tried and tested methods to get decent sounds using layered approach.

The good thing is that you submit your track via a Soundcloud link - most people/participants will drop comments for you.

Lots of help from many of the longer serving members, many are superb musicians, have excellent sound design skills as well as mixing and mastering … so you are good to go in many departments right off the bat!!!!!!!!!

As I said, any genre goes from classical (polka->bach), EDM, ambient, rock/pop, electronica, synthwave, d&b etc etc …

Finally, the 1 month MAKES you finish something, good bad or ugly!

dB
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:57 AM   #7
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But there is something... some difference between tweaking SW synths and HW synths. My HW synths I tweak all the time, even while playing. I have spent so much time over the years creating new sounds for my old and trusted ESQ-1, and now I happily fiddle around with the knobs on my Minilogue.

On all the VSTi synths I have... not so much. Not at all actually, only searching for presets that come close to what I want. Not even the SQ8L which quite closely replicates the HW ESQ-1. There is something about turning virtual knobs that doesn't really play with me. I don't know what it is, but definitely something.

I think the problem is mainly there...
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:31 AM   #8
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Yes you're right Fabian. Not to mention automation is a bitch. I wish I had a shortcut for popping up every parameter automation lane. I guess that's where trackers shine
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Old 05-28-2020, 12:52 PM   #9
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I agree, hardware nearly always beats soft synths- esp for playing live … also, however good the s/w emulations, the hardware nearly always sounds much better!

Automation is always a pain, mind you, automating lots of params on a h/ware synth in real time can be very tricky ;-) - I guess you can use breath controller, aftertouch, mod/pitch wheel and 2 pedals, and play with one hand to control oodles of things :-)

dB
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