Old 05-28-2020, 06:08 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
Hey Devs,

Congrats on including Area Selection (AS)!!

First of all... fantastic job. I don't want to even think what a ton of work this has been to get AS to the level of functionality you have already introduced. You guys never cease to amaze!!

That said, since you are still working on this, I wanted to bring up some things before it's too late.

I've gone through this thread... and read the posts and opinions... and am familiar with the Area 51 thread with all its discussions. Keeping that in mind...

Here are my observations:

1) There seems to be a complaints about laggy behavior
2) It's too easy to commit to a incorrect destination of the AS.
3) There's a lot of static about Envelope functionality.



And if I may be so bold...
Here are my suggested solutions:


1) Ghost copies -- moving the Area Selection without pasting on tracks WHILE being dragged.
2) Must be able to see destination without committing (so click a "Paste" key command when done)
3) An option to Move Area Selection Envelope Points to different lanes and just pasting the Value and not the associated parameter.
4) Include a Left-Mouse drag option (this would solve issues for Mac users).



So let's break this down:

#1 Ghost Copies:
This is a graphical solution to avoid the lagginess of having to iterate pasting on to tracks while dragging the AS.

#2 See Destination before committing:
This is important because once you tediously make your immaculate selection, and you accidentally release the mouse on the wrong grid setting or simply release the mouse in the wrong place… you’ve committed. It may be better to be able to (even have multiple sections and) “Paste” (with some key command) the final destination of the AS. Also you could then conceivably easily paste to different destinations without having to reselect an AS.

#3 Moving Envelopes:
With MIDI plugins and host automation, it is very desirable to be able to paste Envelope values only (without their parameter — say Freq Gain 1 to a Distortion Amount) to different lane/s without keeping the parameter data. Maybe there is a way to do this with a Key Command option. Additionally, this may make it easier to copy several lanes of Envelope point to new unrelated lanes at the same time without the tedium of having to do it one-at-a-time.

#4 Left Mouse Drag:
For Mac users, a left-drag would be almost mandatory. Not for me particularly because I have a Logitec mouse, but for those who don’t and for those who use a track pad.



Anyway… I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m being an ingrate. I’m just trying to cut through the static and hopefully provide some a relevant perspective.

Cheers,

Andrew K
Thanks a lot for taking the time to put this very thorough and well structured post together! I wholeheartedly agree.
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:24 PM   #122
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Even if it were to be adapted so that when 'trim behind...' is off, then items copy on top of each other like you are suggesting, it still wouldn't behave like time selection when 'trim behind' is on, because it still needs to copy the empty space, without that function available it's not really A.S IMO.
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The general consensus is that this is not correct behaviour for A.S
Sorry but I disagree that it "needs" the empty space when the trim behind option is off, and I don't think a few posts in the pre-release discussions really constitutes a general consensus, especially when there are several other posts asking for it to work the way I suggested.

I understand the importance of being able to copy/move empty space along with selection and think that it should absolutely do that when the trim behind option is on, but if trim behind is off, empty space should not overwrite underlying items when copied/moved.

Quote:
Currently, even with 'trim behind' on, if you copy section A on top of section B using time selection, any items in section B that are not also in section A will be left behind, poking through.
Yeah, I'm very familiar with the current time selection behavior, it's very frustrating to use when you want to preserve the empty space, but I also make plenty of edits where I don't want the empty space to wipe out everything underneath and would like to be able to do the same thing using the new area selection. Maybe it's not useful for the way that you work, but I assure you there are people who want and expect it to work the way I'm describing. Besides what's the harm in having the option for both?
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:09 PM   #123
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Sure it can…

I mean can't be changed to Area Selection

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Old 05-28-2020, 08:14 PM   #124
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+1 on the Thonex post.
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:02 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
There are always going to be use cases for time selection distinct from area selection. Just as on the flip side there are use cases for area selection not covered by time selection - hence the whole reason for the feature. Rather than "redefine" what time selection is/should be, why don't we worry about trying to get Area Selection right first? If we find they greatly overlap or users are using one and not the other it can be dealt with then.
Because : item, automation item, loop, time selection, item bottom, stretch markers, transient guides, and now, area...

A lot of different object to deal with.

For mouse modifiers, contextual action (like sws contextual toolbars),... it start to be very confusing.

I don't understand why the hell this has to be another object where a level up of the time selection could fit.

As I said earlier :

Quote:
Add an option

[]Allow user to draw multiple and discontinued time selection

If multiple time selection are drawn
[]link loop to the first you draw
[]link loop to the start of the first and the end of the last

Add mouse modifiers to existing context
; set time selection keeping current time selection
; remove area of time selection
By default, this option could evan be uncheck and make reaper the same with a classic time selection
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:29 PM   #126
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Reaper's time selection is one of the most powerful tools of Reaper. Please leave time selection as is and make area selection what the first post of Area_51 was as seen here.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....hlight=area_51
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:46 PM   #127
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Didn’t really follow the whole AS thread nor have I tested the pre-release so sorry if I say something obvious.
But by skimming through the last pages it seems people debate whether area selection should replace the normal selection or not.
Wouldn’t it be the simplest solution to just make a preference that lets the user decide whether time selection is default and area selection accessed if wanted or the other way round?
Why take something if we can have both? Obviously area selection should be as elaborate as possible not sacrifice functionality just to let people have a reason to keep using the normal selection.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:15 AM   #128
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Let's stop the talk about Time Selection being replaced by Area Selection. They are two completely different animals! Reaper's implementation of Time Selection is (IMO) the best in the industry and is thoroughly integrated into the API and there are a TON of scripts that call on the Time Selections API to even work.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:27 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
Let's stop the talk about Time Selection being replaced by Area Selection. They are two completely different animals! Reaper's implementation of Time Selection is (IMO) the best in the industry and is thoroughly integrated into the API and there are a TON of scripts that call on the Time Selections API to even work.
For example these are my scripts
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Old 05-29-2020, 02:01 AM   #130
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Area Selection minimum 10 ms select, time selection - 1 ms or less.

Please make up to 1 millisecond)

GIF:


Last edited by AlexLazer; 05-29-2020 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 05-29-2020, 02:04 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
Let's stop the talk about Time Selection being replaced by Area Selection. They are two completely different animals! Reaper's implementation of Time Selection is (IMO) the best in the industry and is thoroughly integrated into the API and there are a TON of scripts that call on the Time Selections API to even work.
i won't say let's stop talking about it, but maybe should be moved into other places , so that relevant information for fine crafting area selection can be easier to follow by them and who wants to help.
In this phase the GUI/experience/BUGS and some decisions they will have to take are far more important at this stage.
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Old 05-29-2020, 03:21 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
Let's stop the talk about Time Selection being replaced by Area Selection. They are two completely different animals! Reaper's implementation of Time Selection is (IMO) the best in the industry and is thoroughly integrated into the API and there are a TON of scripts that call on the Time Selections API to even work.
^^^^ This!
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Old 05-29-2020, 03:30 AM   #133
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excuse me, but who is any one of us to say to stop something in this matters?
_Some_ people seem like to think they have any kind of authority in this forum section!
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Old 05-29-2020, 04:13 AM   #134
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Well it's not necessary to remove its code, but use area selection by default.
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Old 05-29-2020, 04:24 AM   #135
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Waiting for new pre (and refreshing lol):

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Old 05-29-2020, 06:47 AM   #136
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Waiting for new pre (and refreshing lol):
Auto check every 15 min engaged here!


(Not available in public release version)
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:24 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Auto check every 15 min engaged here!


(Not available in public release version)
what!? that's cheating. how can i do it too? i've always wanted an instant notification when a new pre is released.

sure, it'd kill the "who posts it" game but that's a rather one-note sport anyway
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:34 AM   #138
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Waiting for new pre (and refreshing lol)
I like a lot this delay for some reason ��
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:10 AM   #139
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I agree with Reno. The time selection should allow us to do it all.
Obviously some big mistakes have been made in the early stages of reaper, so now it's complicated to make the time selection behave like it should (you select whatever is under the mouse and you move it, so simple right ?), but ultimately, we are not trying to launch space x here, so all this complexity brought by the multiplicity of tools, different contexts, differente objects behaviour (because they have not been thought as a whole, but rather as a cumulative process over the years) is NOT GOOD.

The simpler the better...

I'll be alone maybe but I don't like these new fonctions .
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:28 AM   #140
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I agree with Reno. The time selection should allow us to do it all.
Then make a feature request. We are discussing area selection here.
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:51 AM   #141
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For the sake of anyone waiting for a new build, we're going to back off of this feature for a little while. Thank you all for the feedback so far!
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:05 AM   #142
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Cop out!


Just don't make it like articulation management, when that got postponed it ended up being indefinite...
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:06 AM   #143
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@devs: thank you for your efforts so far!
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:02 AM   #144
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For the sake of anyone waiting for a new build, we're going to back off of this feature for a little while. Thank you all for the feedback so far!
Is it our fault? Did we do something wrong? We're sorry. We promise to stop fighting and be good if you bring it back.

In all seriousness, thanks! I don't think it's really that far off at all outside of some bugs here and there and some functionality that could've been built up over time. The basic functionality seemed about right. I'm ultimately cool with it being a separate action, and I"m ultimately cool with it not covering every single use-case and having some limitations. Thanks!
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:40 AM   #145
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Area Selection has already made Reaper so much better for me. Take your time with it!

Just not too long.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:16 PM   #146
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Default Shortcut keys

Hello. Maybe I missed it but is it possible to also make actions for it so you could assign shortcuts to it? One of the best uses I had for area selection in Pro Tools is quickly move my selection up and down or expand it up and down by using hot keys. The reason being that once you established a selection on one track you often want to cut clips in a part of other tracks to the same time selection as well (e.g. when editing ambiences). And also shortcuts to trim everything to the area selection and actions to move left and right edges of the area selection by nudge amount would be great. Being able to do it with a mouse is not bad but hot keys are really speeding up the process.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:52 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
what!? that's cheating. how can i do it too? i've always wanted an instant notification when a new pre is released.

sure, it'd kill the "who posts it" game but that's a rather one-note sport anyway

I think Linux Cinnamon have an applet Website Notifier if you can get it to work and, live with the shame..

SmajjL have not cheated once!
Ps, no, not twice either, wewwy funny..
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Old 05-30-2020, 01:55 AM   #148
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... when that got postponed it ended up being indefinite...
... which still moves me to tears whenever someone says the a10n word ...
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:28 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by AlexLazer View Post
Area Selection minimum 10 ms select, time selection - 1 ms or less.

Please make up to 1 millisecond)

GIF:

It'd be great to see minimum selection changed to pixels, rather than ms. The issue I have with ms is that, when zoomed out far, it is much easier to accidentally draw tiny time selections/areas. With pixels, it would scale to zoom level and be the same distance everywhere.
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Old 05-31-2020, 04:39 AM   #150
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Default Theme editor not refreshing correctly?

I've noticed since upgrading to dev0527a that changes made to my theme are not reflected when I hit the 'reload images' button like they usually do. I need to actually change the theme, then change back, and then the changes are reflected.

As a side note - I sincerely hope all the charged discussion about A.S replacing other functions (guilty as charged) isn't what has caused you to put it on the back burner.

The functionality it provides is a massive boost to my workflow already, and even if it never expanded beyond that I'd still hugely grateful for it's existence. I guess I'm saying I hope it sees the light of day sooner rather than later, and thanks again for bringing it into the fold!
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:06 AM   #151
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By the way - do I understand correctly that internally in REAPER, envelope lanes are directly associated to parameters of tracks (such as Volume, Pan etc.) and parameters of FX plugins, in same order as those parameters are presented to REAPER?

In other words, envelopes are logically children of track parameters or FX plugin parameters (rather than the track itself) without any "abstraction levels" inbetween?
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:27 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Cop out!


Just don't make it like articulation management, when that got postponed it ended up being indefinite...
Would be nice to see Reaper incorporate Jason Tackaberry's Reaticulate natively.
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:04 PM   #153
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For the sake of anyone waiting for a new build, we're going to back off of this feature for a little while. Thank you all for the feedback so far!
If you stop working on AS for a while, please don't remove it from the dev builds! Even at this early stage of development, it is already very useful.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:05 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Auto check every 15 min engaged here!


(Not available in public release version)
I think about doing this as well but checking every minute instead. Just to be on the edge case of life

@all
I love the intensive discussion here about AS. So many interesting povs bringing it to the best it can be in the end.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:37 PM   #155
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@all
I love the intensive discussion here about AS. So many interesting povs bringing it to the best it can be in the end.
Check the last schwa's comment.
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Old 05-31-2020, 04:35 PM   #156
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Check the last schwa's comment.
Yes I know, but I think, it's cause the whole thing needs more time to "cook" before it gets further developed. And the input by so many are ingredients for it ^^
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:31 AM   #157
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Not sure if it has been mentioned, sorry mid tune here, but ReaEQ is missing from the Cockos category in the effect list, it is under EQ category still though.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:54 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I've noticed since upgrading to dev0527a that changes made to my theme are not reflected when I hit the 'reload images' button like they usually do. I need to actually change the theme, then change back, and then the changes are reflected.
Ah thanks, fixing!
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:55 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
Not sure if it has been mentioned, sorry mid tune here, but ReaEQ is missing from the Cockos category in the effect list, it is under EQ category still though.
Hmm did it get renamed maybe?
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Old 06-02-2020, 02:37 PM   #160
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snap to grid not working relatively to visual grids ?
for some reason, the relative snap won't work, if I zoom out a lot and the gridlines change, the notes should snap to the grid relatively but they don't :X

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