Old 07-11-2018, 01:16 PM   #1
Tod
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Default What's going on with the Takes system?

I've been recording Steel Guitar samples using the take system. Everything works fine until suddenly
this pops up. I saw it for the first time ever, a couple of days ago and it's happened twice since.
The only fix I've found is creating a new track and using that for the takes. It wouldn't be such a
big deal, but I've got the whole process automated and the take track is part of it.



Anybody know what that is?

EDIT: I took the red X out.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:46 PM   #2
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Did you put the red X there? Otherwise, would need to know more about how you got there since empty take lanes are entirely possible depending on how you recorded the sections. Should there be 12 full takes or...
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Did you put the red X there? Otherwise, would need to know more about how you got there since empty take lanes are entirely possible depending on how you recorded the sections. Should there be 12 full takes or...
Thanks Karbo, the red is the part that suddenly shows up, they were not recorded. The only recorded
tracks are the 6 below that are obvious audio files.

Like I mentioned, this popped up for the first time a couple of days ago, which was the first time I've
ever seen it. Then it's happened twice since and these happenings are spaced quite a ways apart, so it's
not like, all the time.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:53 PM   #4
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I know it's not much consolation, but I nominate you for for finding the most bizarre bug of the month. Maybe of the year. Strange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I've been recording Steel Guitar samples using the take system. Everything works fine until suddenly
this pops up. I saw it for the first time ever, a couple of days ago and it's happened twice since.
The only fix I've found is creating a new track and using that for the takes. It wouldn't be such a
big deal, but I've got the whole process automated and the take track is part of it.



Anybody know what that is?
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:55 PM   #5
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Hi Tod,

If this is just a visual thing (i.e. you want to get rid of the empty take lanes being displayed), try disabling "Options -> Take lane behaviour -> Display empty takes lanes"
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Hi Tod,

If this is just a visual thing (i.e. you want to get rid of the empty take lanes being displayed), try disabling "Options -> Take lane behaviour -> Display empty takes lanes"
Aah nofish, thankyou, I think you did again, I indeed had that checked.

One thing I don't understand, I've been recording these Steel samples for a full week now, and it's only happened 3 times?

I might add, I would never have found that, so thanks again nofish.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:36 PM   #7
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You're welcome.

Btw, just a short rundown why the 'empty takes' feature exists at all (if you're unfamilar with it).

When you record over items in takes mode which creates splits, this feature makes all takes stay in there own lane visually.

Example
with above option off:



with it on:



Second is more visually clear to me so I usually leave it on.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Aah nofish, thankyou, I think you did again, I indeed had that checked.
I suggest we find root cause/bug because that box should typically be checked or the result will drive a person nutty and in some cases cause the user to remove takes they didn't intend on removing (ask me how I know that). Meaning, without it (assuming it's the one I think it is), incomplete takes will be shifted vertically and will be a true PIA.

Ah, just noticed nofish just described what I was speaking of, you really want it on most of the time, need to find the bug!
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
You're welcome.

Btw, just a short rundown why the 'empty takes' feature exists at all (if you're unfamilar with it).

When you record over items in takes mode which creates splits, this feature makes all takes stay in there own lane visually.

Second is more visually clear to me so I usually leave it on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I suggest we find root cause/bug because that box should typically be checked or the result will drive a person nutty and in some cases cause the user to remove takes they didn't intend on removing (ask me how I know that). Meaning, without it (assuming it's the one I think it is), incomplete takes will be shifted vertically and will be a true PIA.

Ah, just noticed nofish just described what I was speaking of, you really want it on most of the time, need to find the bug!
Okay guys, understand, and yeah it only showed up 3 times in the midst of several hours of recording. As nofish points out,
I can see why it needs to be checked.

Quote:
incomplete takes will be shifted vertically and will be a true PIA
Actually Karbo, the tracks I show above are not "incomplete" takes, they're kind of ghost takes of all the other takes.

So what do you think guys, should I post it as a bug? Heh heh, I think dealing with the take system is probably the one of the
last things Justin wants to deal with right now.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Actually Karbo, the tracks I show above are not "incomplete" takes, they're kind of ghost takes of all the other takes.
Yes, I know. I mentioned because yours were full takes - meaning, it seems more harmless to disable that setting when one isn't seeing split/partial takes. I noticed you said "I have the whole process automated", what does that mean?

As far as the problem, I think Justin should see it and chime in - because that's a very weird symptom.

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Old 07-12-2018, 10:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I noticed you said "I have the whole process automated", what does that mean?
Actually "automated" wold not be the right word. What I should have said is I've got custom actions that
speed things up dramatically and cuts down on mistakes. At this point I've got it all in my toolbar 3.
The way I've got it setup, the process requires that track 13 be used for recording the takes.

The Steel is a pretty complicated instrument and requires a lot more parameters and controllers, so I'm
still working on my strategy.



I've basically just started this project for creating a steel guitar instrument in Kontakt and I will probably
have a lot more in there when I'm done.

Quote:
As far as the problem, I think Justin should see it and chime in - because that's a very weird symptom.
I got to thinking about this and realized I did this with Reaper 5.70. I tried updating to 5.92 a couple of
days ago and ran into some bugs that make it impossible for me to continue to use it. Whether they are bugs
or not, I couldn't figure out how to fix it.

The problem was in the midi editor, I couldn't work on individual tracks. For example, if I had midi notes on
track one and no notes on tracks 2&3, those notes on track 1 still showed up on 2&3. I figured it was a setting
but couldn't find anything. I even imported my config file from Reaper 5.70, but it still didn't work.

I have a feeling though, that this bug with the takes is probably all the way through to the present version.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Actually "automated" wold not be the right word.
I think it's sufficient for what I was going to ask next which is... Could one of the actions/scripts etc. that you are using be playing a part in what is occurring. I say that because your screenshot is so foreign to me as someone who likely uses takes beyond what most users here ever do, and I've never seen anything remotely related to that. It makes me think 'something' was manipulated/removed/shifted in a weird way and that exposed the problem - could be wrong, just thinking out loud.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I think it's sufficient for what I was going to ask next which is... Could one of the actions/scripts etc. that you are using be playing a part in what is occurring. I say that because your screenshot is so foreign to me as someone who likely uses takes beyond what most users here ever do, and I've never seen anything remotely related to that. It makes me think 'something' was manipulated/removed/shifted in a weird way and that exposed the problem - could be wrong, just thinking out loud.
No, I don't think so, when I'm recording the takes, I'm doing as you normally would. Once the loop is made and
the track is armed, I just hit record and record the takes, then stop record and save the takes.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
No, I don't think so, when I'm recording the takes, I'm doing as you normally would. Once the loop is made and
the track is armed, I just hit record and record the takes, then stop record and save the takes.
If that means you just create a track, do takes 1-6 without running any actions etc., then suddenly there are 12 and like that original screenshot, then I still think there is some strange bug/issue. That is NOT normal under any reasonable circumstance.

This may be completely unrelated but the only times I've seen weird red Xs like that was when the app ran out of memory (in some form) and the X was a placholder for a graphical resource it couldn't load because of it; don't take that as fact here, I'm only mentioning because that's the only other time I have seen this in general in my lifetime.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
This may be completely unrelated but the only times I've seen weird red Xs like that was when the app ran out of memory (in some form) and the X was a placholder for a graphical resource it couldn't load because of it; don't take that as fact here, I'm only mentioning because that's the only other time I have seen this in general in my lifetime.
Ha ha, sorry my friend, I put the red X there just to show my disgust, I should have explaind that.

When I get some time today or tomorrow, I'll see if I can get a bug report together.

In all honesty, I don't use the take system all that much, I mainly use it for recording samples. So it
is rather weird that you haven't encountered this. Or anybody else for that matter.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
In all honesty, I don't use the take system all that much, I mainly use it for recording samples. So it
is rather weird that you haven't encountered this. Or anybody else for that matter.
No, never seen it but...... I'm not sure I fully understand; right now I'm assuming you recorded 6 takes then suddenly 6 blank ones showed up for a total of 12. Once I know I know what occurred, I can comment more accurately. I'm still concerned I'm overlooking something in your explanation.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
No, never seen it but...... I'm not sure I fully understand; right now I'm assuming you recorded 6 takes then suddenly 6 blank ones showed up for a total of 12. Once I know I know what occurred, I can comment more accurately. I'm still concerned I'm overlooking something in your explanation.
I think you've got it Karbo, I maybe recorded samples for 4 or 5 hours, then all of a sudden those
ghost takes showed up. They appear to be reflections of the other takes.

After I explode all the takes in order, the ghost tracks are sitting there on the left side of the
normal takes and it's the same size as the normal takes. I think I can just select it and delete it
but one time it deleted the rest of the takes, so I just move it a little to the left and then delete
it.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:32 PM   #18
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Because there are 6 takes out of 12 takes, as opposed to say three (3) for example, it would say this suggests a stereo signal is being split in two where one channel is coming out mute and the other mono. Or the soundcard is set to 'listen' and doubling up the source signal. Either way I would keep the 6/12 (i.e. half) in mind when trying to figure out the issue.

What the 6 tracks containing audio reasonably loud or did they appear to be -4 to -6 db to low?
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:52 PM   #19
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What do you see if you open the wav file in an editor like Audacity?
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDBOIS View Post
Because there are 6 takes out of 12 takes, as opposed to say three (3) for example, it would say this suggests a stereo signal is being split in two where one channel is coming out mute and the other mono. Or the soundcard is set to 'listen' and doubling up the source signal. Either way I would keep the 6/12 (i.e. half) in mind when trying to figure out the issue.

What the 6 tracks containing audio reasonably loud or did they appear to be -4 to -6 db to low?
Everything is mono, no stereo, the track input is set for 1 input, Input-2 on my interface.

Keep in mind, it's only happened 3 times and I've been recording these samples for many hours without problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanofoz View Post
What do you see if you open the wav file in an editor like Audacity?
The actual audio shows up as regular 24bit 44.1K wave files.

Thanks guys.
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
The actual audio shows up as regular 24bit 44.1K wave files.

Thanks guys.
I had in mind a lot more detail than that:-

Are there lengths of silence corresponding to the empty lanes?
Does the total time add up to the time for the 6 intended takes, or does it also include the time for the empty lanes?
Is it a mono or stereo file?
Anything else if you examine it closely?
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanofoz View Post
I had in mind a lot more detail than that:-

Are there lengths of silence corresponding to the empty lanes?
Does the total time add up to the time for the 6 intended takes, or does it also include the time for the empty lanes?
Is it a mono or stereo file?
Anything else if you examine it closely?
I'm sorry alanofoz, there's not a lot more detail I can add. However yes, they are all mono.

In the picture in my first post, if you take away those ghost takes, it's exactly as it should be. When I further processed it by
exploding it and getting rid of the ghost takes, then editing the rest of the takes, they were exactly as they should be. In fact
I went ahead and edited the samples to add to my library.

I might add that I've spent the last 2 days recording more samples and had no problems with this, even though it's happened 3 times prior.

I should probably put it in a bug report, I just haven't had the time.
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