Old 11-17-2012, 06:07 PM   #1
chammer
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Default MIDI NRPNs and Reaper

Does anyone know if Reaper supports MIDI NRPNs? Evidently Ableton and other DAWs do not support it. Thanks.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:24 PM   #2
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You can use ReaControlMIDI with 'Non-Reg Parameter' from the drop down list menu (under "Control Change").

Btw, this thread should rather be in MIDI & other protocols than the OSX sub forum, I think. Mods?
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:37 AM   #3
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NRPN is in fact consisted of sending MIDI CC #99 (NRPN MSB), then MIDI CC #100 (NRPN LSB), and after that MIDI CC #6 (Data). Optionally you can send MIDI CC #38 after MIDI CC #6 to finetune the value, since CC #6 and CC #38 form a MSB-LSB pair (14-bit CC).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRPN

So, any DAW supporting MIDI CCs (and that's all of them, right?) can deal with NRPNs.
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:46 AM   #4
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NRPN are just a combination of ordinary CC message. To use NRPN you'd send a single CC99, followed by a single CC98 message. These two together specify a parameter of the receiving device. Then you send CC6 (and if you want fine resolution and the receiving device supports it also CC38) to set this parameter to your desired value.
To switch control to another parameter you have to send new CC99/98. You can always only control one NRPN driven parameter at a time.

Thus a DAW that can record and send these CC events does have basic NRPN support. I'd be very surprised if Ableton doesn't.
(ED beat me on this part )



Some DAWs can sort of overcome the one-at-a-time restriction (at the expense of hogging the MIDI stream) by always sending a block of 99/98/6(/38) each time an NRPN parameter shall be changed. That also makes it quite a bit more comfortable to handle them from a MIDI editor, as you could edit the whole group on a single CC lane for each NRPN driven parameter.
The possible downside is the "hogging the MIDI stream" part, if the receiving device is outboard. Also the receiver might not be able to handle quick switching between different NRPN parameters.

If you mean that by "support NRPN". Reaper can't do that. You can come closer with plugins written to do the task, but can't ride them from within Reaper's piano roll editor, only from track envelopes.
To ride NRPN from Reaper's piano roll you need at least 3 CC lanes working together.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:25 AM   #5
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Yep - back when I was using Roland SC type modules a lot, I routinely used reaper to do NRPNs.

Gets a bit wordy with the multiple control code calls, but I doubt if it is more elegantly supported in any other DAWs.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:50 AM   #6
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It would already be a lot easier if the piano roll could handle CC99 and CC98 in a single lane. They already do that in ReaControlMIDI. It can (does by default) handle 99 and 98 as a single high res event (like it also sends CC7 and CC39 together by default).

If one could specify NRPN "cluster" messages (define a 99/98 combo that "belongs together"), it's technically possible to have a CC lane that would send a certain combination of 99 and 98 prefixed to each event bar (which itself could represent a cluster of CC6 and CC38 to have hi res). That way, a single lane could control a complete NRPN parameter just by drawing in event bars. Apart from that the user has to specify the 99/98 cluster for the given lane, on the user side NRPN would be controlled exactly like any ordinary CC.

And you could have multiple lanes, each controlling it's own NRPN parameter - assumed that the data stream and the receiving device can handle the message flood.


I think (not sure) Sonar can do that, at least for a single NRPN combo. As said, I don't know for sure. Last time I did anything NRPN I was using Logic. And unless you dared to dive into the environment it was pretty much the same pain. If however you did a bit of environment bricolage, you could do exactly as described above which made it almost too easy (all the responsibility about stream-hogging was laying on you and it was pretty easy/tempting to overdo it )
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
That way, a single lane could control a complete NRPN parameter just by drawing in event bars.
This would be cool!
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
[…] a single lane could control a complete NRPN parameter just by drawing in event bars. Apart from that the user has to specify the 99/98 cluster for the given lane, on the user side NRPN would be controlled exactly like any ordinary CC.
Exactly!

I have added a formal FR to the previous FR discussion thread for 'learning' 14-bit MIDI types, and another FR + FR discussion thread for editing 14-bit MIDI in a single lane (since it concerns non-(N)RPN MSB/LSB pairs as well). Discuss, vote!
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