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Old 02-13-2012, 07:51 AM   #1
jalfk
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Default Gate release time feature request

ReaGate is great apart from it has a bad sounding release period - IE it closes too quickly even with an insanely long release. When for example a 1 second release, it will be open for a second and then slam shut. There's no way to have it fade elegantly.

I suggest a control to adjust how quickly the gate shuts IE the actual curve type.

UPDATE
^^^^^^^^

7 years later just wanted to demonstrate WHY ReaGate currently sounds bad.
Listen to the current release shape: https://vocaroo.com/i/s0fzXKrkc1aJ
Attached is more visual information
Attached Images
File Type: png Screenshot 2019-02-16 at 13.20.43.png (60.4 KB, 198 views)
File Type: jpg feature.jpg (27.4 KB, 210 views)

Last edited by jalfk; 02-16-2019 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:08 AM   #2
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i totally 110% +1 this!!



as an added bonus, add a "bpm sync" checkbox and note value knob
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Old 02-18-2012, 06:48 PM   #3
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How comes this is a totally unpopular idea? If there's already some super gate out there with lookahead that has a variable release shape, please let me know immediately! I need it!

:-)
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:42 PM   #4
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You can do it with parameter modulation.

Go to Reagate parameter modulation, select hold or realease ( or borh) and use audio channel 1/2 to modulate the parameter as you wish...

Parameter modulztion is the awesomest feature of reaper for mixing... It bury all other daws by far... Use it! :-)
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:59 AM   #5
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This is a cool idea and, although I have used param mod before, I dont use the feature very much at all.

However if I understand correctly, this would not easily do what I'm trying to do.
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Old 02-19-2012, 06:02 AM   #6
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i guess i know what reno is implying.

you're talking about the "audio control signal shaping" window, right?

interesting idea. thanks for that!

(even though I still feel that adjustable envelopes within the gate and comp plugins would be great!)
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:02 AM   #7
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I could have done with this feature SO BADLY last night in a session.

For me this is litterally the only thing that's nagging me right now. And I haven't been able to find a look ahead gate that does the same.

It is not possible using parameter modulation.

Doesn't anyone else record drums here lol?
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
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I should imagine the math coding would be extremely simple...?
How so?
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:24 AM   #9
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How so?
If I'm correct in assuming the plugin is a state machine, and if there is currently a release time period at all, then all that would need to be added would be one line of code logarithmically multiplying an existing amp variable by the slider value.

But I've never coded VSTi's so could be talking crap.

Edit: also, if this necessitated affecting the attack time as a side effect, I couldn't care less because the plugin is look ahead.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:35 PM   #10
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Edit: also, if this necessitated affecting the attack time as a side effect, I couldn't care less because the plugin is look ahead.
Yes, simply applying a transformation to the output gain of the gate would mean the attack is also affected. You might not care but others might, which means this will not be the most clean way to add the feature (and other ways are as far as my knowledge goes much more complicated), or it could be renamed from "Log release" to "Curve shape" or whatever.

Anyway any other gates (or compressors) with this functionality? So Cockos (and possible other users) can take a look/listen to the proposed feature in action.
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:52 AM   #11
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Anyway any other gates (or compressors) with this functionality? So Cockos (and possible other users) can take a look/listen to the proposed feature in action.
quick search turned up the following gate:
Quote:
Following the EQ is a gate especially designed for gating reverb tails, with threshold, attack, release, hold time, shape (either linear or sigma) and slope parameters. The attack, release and hold parameters operate like any typical noise gate. Shape offers a choice of gate-attenuation curves: Linear is a straight, downward path; and sigma is an "S" shape, in which the gate closes slowly at first and then more rapidly downward. Slope controls the exact shape of this S curve--higher values mean a steeper downside.

http://www.barryrudolph.com/mix/breverb.html
(sort of)

also there seem to be a couple of compressors that do this:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...ase-curve.html
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:56 AM   #12
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This is just a gimmick because it's just smoothing the hold time into the release some how. What I'm talking about is a "fast start fade out" type release period.

If you gate a kick for example with reagate and listen to the snare, when the release time is on the snare, it's not a smooth fade out is like chops the snare instead of fading the snare out. This sounds super unnatural and means you are forced to have a quicker release time.

I'm in favour of having the slider called curvature and it effecting attack and release, because there's very few occasions where attack isn't completely irrelevant to the sound when using look ahead.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:07 PM   #13
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bump......
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:54 PM   #14
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feature would be excellent
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:48 AM   #15
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AGREE!!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by jalfk View Post
ReaGate is great apart from it has a bad sounding release period - IE it closes too quickly even with an insanely long release. When for example a 1 second release, it will be open for a second and then slam shut. There's no way to have it fade elegantly.

I suggest a control to adjust how quickly the gate shuts IE the actual curve type.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:11 PM   #16
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any movement on this 2 years later?
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:11 AM   #17
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Now been wanting this feature for around 7 years but I seem to be waiting in vain.

EXPONENTIAL GATE RELEASE. Not such a big deal to implement lol.

The release period currently and always has sounded linear or even logarithmic in a very unmusical way especially for drums. This is a trivial feature to implement but such a huge upgrade to the sound of reagate it's frustrating that 7 years later there has been essentially zero love for Reagate.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:55 PM   #18
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Hi jalfk,
you can try to use Hysteresis fader to "smooth out" the release phase of gate as a workaround. I can dial much more pleasant release by using this.

Last edited by akademie; 02-15-2019 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:41 AM   #19
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Hi jalfk,
you can try to use Hysteresis fader to "smooth out" the release phase of gate as a workaround. I can dial much more pleasant release by using this.
Thanks bro but this is different, this is part of the time detection and not of the shape of release. This will never produce an exponential release.
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:25 AM   #20
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Thanks bro but this is different, this is part of the time detection and not of the shape of release. This will never produce an exponential release.
Sure I know, jafalk, that's why I wrote "as workaround" to achieve something like you (not only you) need and is not available (yet). (I use it that way and it kinda works for me - btw I am shaping amplitude envelopes of modular synth from JS building blocks)

Another workaround that comes to my mind (not tested) is to put some transient controller to sidechain the gate input to have different control signal apart from the main audio.

Anyway, have you any small test audio/project (few bars of your drum tracks) that you can share to let anybody here at forum to try what can be done to this material to make it sound right or better at least?

Please, still, keep here a "workaround" word in mind as the feature does not exists in ReaGate.

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Old 02-16-2019, 03:32 AM   #21
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Please, still, keep here a "workaround" word in mind as the feature does not exists in ReaGate.
This is why I've been feature requesting it for literally 7 years
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:52 AM   #22
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This is why I've been feature requesting it for literally 7 years
Oh well, sorry, then let's wait another decade ;-)
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:31 AM   #23
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updated OP
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:34 AM   #24
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just wondering, are all pro users here simply using other gate plugins instead of ReaGate or are you legit happy with the release phase sounding like this and legit use ReaGate for professional projects?

I think ReaGate is great because of the predelay and it COULD be the ultimate gate very easily if it just had an exp or at least linear option to make the release stage better. Surely we'd all like a native low CPU plugin over some third party iLok stuff right?
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:14 AM   #25
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just wondering, are all pro users here simply using other gate plugins instead of ReaGate or are you legit happy with the release phase sounding like this and legit use ReaGate for professional projects?

I think ReaGate is great because of the predelay and it COULD be the ultimate gate very easily if it just had an exp or at least linear option to make the release stage better. Surely we'd all like a native low CPU plugin over some third party iLok stuff right?
I'm no pro, but I only use ReaGate for triggering.

Otherwise I use Boz +10dB Compressor (model of a Compex) for old-school gate sounds, and his Gatey Watey for more unobtrusive stuff. Got them each for $10-20 on sale at different points. No iLok required.

Gatey Watey has lookahead.

https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/gatey-watey/
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Old 02-28-2019, 01:24 PM   #26
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I'm no pro, but I only use ReaGate for triggering.

Otherwise I use Boz +10dB Compressor (model of a Compex) for old-school gate sounds, and his Gatey Watey for more unobtrusive stuff. Got them each for $10-20 on sale at different points. No iLok required.

Gatey Watey has lookahead.

https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/gatey-watey/
Gatey Watey looks essentially just like any other gate but with a parallel channel with a LPF/HPF - something which is very easy to setup in reaper thanks to the track channels. Fabfilter pro G is probably the better plugin and the release period sounds WAY more natural than ReaGate but is $150, has an amaturish interface, obviously not reaper native and uses a lot more CPU. ReaGate would be better if it simply had a release time shape control or SOME possibility of determining the shape of the release time.
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Old 02-28-2019, 01:39 PM   #27
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Gatey Watey looks essentially just like any other gate but with a parallel channel with a LPF/HPF - something which is very easy to setup in reaper thanks to the track channels. Fabfilter pro G is probably the better plugin and the release period sounds WAY more natural than ReaGate but is $150, has an amaturish interface, obviously not reaper native and uses a lot more CPU. ReaGate would be better if it simply had a release time shape control or SOME possibility of determining the shape of the release time.
I support your feature request, just giving you another option with lookahead.

Never heard Fabfilter GUI's described as amateurish though!
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Old 02-28-2019, 02:11 PM   #28
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I support your feature request, just giving you another option with lookahead.

Never heard Fabfilter GUI's described as amateurish though!
Thanks yeah I generally think FF make very *pretty* interfaces which are eye candy if you are a noob. But if you use plugins as part of your job, the flashy CPU intensive scrolling graphs with smooth gradients and blurry curves not only are as useful as a chocolate teapot, they are also just bloody annoying and, I'm not sure if I'm alone on this, but I find them sort of condescending. With pro-L you can sort of make the graphics a bit less annoying by using the compact mode but with pro-G you can only turn the annoying scrolling chart off but cannot get rid of it and make the interface smaller. The "tabs" on the FF knobs are also infuriating. If I could pay MORE to get rid of all the ostensible eye candy and have an interface like the native reaper plugins, I would.

The "moving control box" on pro Q2 is also face palm and pro Q3 was a complete disaster as you had no time constants on the dynamic EQ, meaning you couldn't use the dynamic EQ as a dynamic EQ LOL.

Despite that pro Q2 is pretty much the only EQ I use and I think they made overall the best static EQ available with version 2, and Pro-L isn't bad for SOME material but then pro L2 was a disaster. Apart from pro Q2 they are pretty overrated plugins IMHO.
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Old 02-28-2019, 02:27 PM   #29
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Thanks yeah I generally think FF make very *pretty* interfaces which are eye candy if you are a noob. But if you use plugins as part of your job, the flashy CPU intensive scrolling graphs with smooth gradients and blurry curves not only are as useful as a chocolate teapot, they are also just bloody annoying and, I'm not sure if I'm alone on this, but I find them sort of condescending. With pro-L you can sort of make the graphics a bit less annoying by using the compact mode but with pro-G you can only turn the annoying scrolling chart off but cannot get rid of it and make the interface smaller. The "tabs" on the FF knobs are also infuriating. If I could pay MORE to get rid of all the ostensible eye candy and have an interface like the native reaper plugins, I would.

The "moving control box" on pro Q2 is also face palm and pro Q3 was a complete disaster as you had no time constants on the dynamic EQ, meaning you couldn't use the dynamic EQ as a dynamic EQ LOL.

Despite that pro Q2 is pretty much the only EQ I use and I think they made overall the best static EQ available with version 2, and Pro-L isn't bad for SOME material but then pro L2 was a disaster. Apart from pro Q2 they are pretty overrated plugins IMHO.
Fair enough, I don't own any FF plugins, but lots of people gush over the GUI's.
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Old 02-28-2019, 04:57 PM   #30
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This is probably related to the weird release curve in ReaComp. They really should look at both of these things.

What they actually need to do is make ReaExpand and allow infinite ratio so that it can just replace ReaGate.
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:06 PM   #31
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I'd never really spent much thought on gate release curves before coming across this thread. I felt I wanted to know what variation there is out there, so made some comparisons on all the gates I had available to me.

On all of these hold was off or the minimum it would go and set release to 200ms or as close as I could.

I used eugen's wave generator script to generate a 440hz triangle wave at -12.5dB and triggered the gates with a short burst of the same wave normalised. Osciloscope is Signaliser.

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Old 02-28-2019, 07:50 PM   #32
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Wow, great work!!!

So when you look at these waveforms, bear in mind that when you see a "straight" cone shape, this is a linear decay in terms of the math but in terms of human perception it is an arc shaped falloff, that is, you hear it decay very slowly and then suddenly it vanishes very quickly. This sounds bad and unnatural. You see that in ALL of the other gates, except that U-he one ironically labeled exponential, there is some sort of exponential IE "curved" falloff, which sounds MUCH more natural to the human ear - a more gradual fade out. Noteworthy is that the best sounding one, the waves SSL channel model, has the most extreme exponential shape of all.

So yeah, you proved my point. A picture says 1000 words. Nice picture!


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This is probably related to the weird release curve in ReaComp. They really should look at both of these things.
I think ReaComp sounds GREAT as a clinical transparent compressor and I use it all the time, nothing wrong with it at all.

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What they actually need to do is make ReaExpand and allow infinite ratio so that it can just replace ReaGate.
Creating an entirely new plugin to obsolete an otherwise decent mature plugin is a much more optimistic feature request and I'm not convinced it would be necessary if there could simply be a checkbox or slider for the decay curvature in ReaGate.
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:51 PM   #33
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Most of the JS compressors use a fairly naive but straightforward way of doing things like attack and release. It's literally just divide how far it needs to go by how long you want it to take in samples and then change by that much each sample. It's a simple linear interpolation, though if it's applied to db change, it should still be kind of curvy. I don't know for sure, but suspect that ReaComp and ReaGate use a similar process.

Analog devices, and plugins that emulate them use something much more like a low pass filter on the gain change, which usually gives a curve that sounds more natural and smooth, but at least theoretically never completely settles back. In those cases, the time constant usually describes how long it takes to get within a certain number of db of the target, kind of like the way reverb times are calculated.

It really is time for them to look a little more closely at these things. It might make them slightly less efficient, but they are so light as is, I think we could afford it.

edit -
Quote:
...if there could simply be a checkbox or slider for the decay curvature in ReaGate.
But that still doesn't get us an actual working native expander. If they just want to give us a variable ratio in ReaGate, I'd go for that too, but then it would kind of be named wrong.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:22 PM   #34
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yeah the programming required would be trivial. Quite likely one line of code would need to be changed to introduce an exponent. Almost all of my feature requests are for trivially easy implementations which would provide big upgrades, otherwise I don't bother suggesting.... of course it would be nice to have a magic button to do X or Y but generally I would never suggest such a thing.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:33 PM   #35
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Actually it's more likely the difference between doing a divide every block and doing at least a multiply and subtract every sample. That's not negligible. Not terribly difficult, but...
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:51 PM   #36
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+1 to adding a release curve setting. The existing curve ends up being half "extra Hold" rather than a fade.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:58 AM   #37
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+1 to adding a release curve setting. The existing curve ends up being half "extra Hold" rather than a fade.
THIS. Yeah this is a much easier way of describing what I've been trying to say here.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:56 AM   #38
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any new love for this feature on the 10th of April?
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:21 AM   #39
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+1 YES PLEASE!!
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Old 11-09-2019, 12:54 PM   #40
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any consideration nov 2019?
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