|
|
|
11-17-2017, 09:57 AM
|
#1
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
32-bit better VST UI experience than 64-bit
I found the VST plugin experience (fader and eq curves scroll) is clearly smoother in 32-bit version than 64-bit. It’s not really a big problem for working with light plugins, but it feels more “pro” in 32-bit, and can be annoying with heavier plugins.
As starting point, it seems contradictory to me not to have at least the same smoothness in 64-bit version.
In conclusion, after all my tests (as detailer below), the problem is in the REAPER 64-bit version itself, in comparison with the 32-bit version.
MY TESTS EXPLAINED, if you want to know how I reached the previous conclusion:
The Test:
Blank reaper project with only one ReaEQ instance: put a highpass filter and move the frequency right to left, look at the curve graph how it scrolls smother, perfect in 32bit, and more stepped in 64bit. It’s like it lacks refreshing.
Testing with heavier plugins as waves Linear MB, the difference is almost creating a problem, because the movement of the faders (threeshold fader, i.e.) can be discomforting and unprecise.
Evidences::
Just moved from WinXP 32-bit to Windows 7 64-bit, and so its Reaper version accordingly. I’m still preserving XP system, with dual boot.
So the comparison is performed with the same hardware, and tested as explained before. Evenmore, I have 4gb more ram with Win7 than XP. So IT’S NOT MY COMPUTER.
Even for dissipating further doubts, surprisingly I still can open from Win7, the 32-bit REAPER.exe present in my XP drive, and the result is allways the same: VST UI graphics moves smoother in 32-bit version: SO IT’S NOT THE OS.
There’s only left it MUST be Reaper version.
It would be great if the developers could adress/improve this.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 10:02 AM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
Which Reaper version?
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 10:46 AM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Which Reaper version?
|
Hi,
On windows 7: 5.61/x64
On XP 32bit, is a bit earlier version v5.40
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 10:55 AM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
That is automatically not a 1:1 comparison.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 11:14 AM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
That is automatically not a 1:1 comparison.
|
You are right.
But the best performance is on the oldest version (the 32 bit XP one).
Please note that the other Reaper is the 64 bit one, latest version.
So 32 bit version is smoother than 64 bit version.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 11:17 AM
|
#6
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
Not over here. Exactly the same computer, same OS, 32-bit and 64-bit run exactly the same.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 11:21 AM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Not over here. Exactly the same computer, same OS, 32-bit and 64-bit run exactly the same.
|
Not in my computer.
Please note that the problem is about VST UI graphics. In 32 bit is clearly smoother. Sound processing is fine.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 11:22 AM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
I know what you mean. It's exactly the same on either version over here.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 11:37 AM
|
#9
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Have you also tested with waves Lmb?
Is more obvious the effect. Moving down and up the threeshold fader is enough to see it.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 11:49 AM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
I don't own or use Waves plugins. But regardless, any similar plugin that has EQ plots behaves pretty much the same.
I think I can probably relegate this to possible GPU driver differences between XP and W7.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 01:10 PM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
We can dischard this hypotesys.
I run both versions with win7 and the difference is the same. I'm thinking about using the 32 bit version.....
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 01:14 PM
|
#12
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,254
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
I don't own or use Waves plugins. But regardless, any similar plugin that has EQ plots behaves pretty much the same.
I think I can probably relegate this to possible GPU driver differences between XP and W7.
|
I think waves does some weird mojo with graphics and their shell DLL - I certainly remember in the past Waves having graphics issues in various DAWs including Reaper.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 01:20 PM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
32-bit is going to history, it's your loss if you wanna cling onto it.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 04:02 PM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
I would like to know how the program works with my graphics card, it is like the card needs more resources to work smoothly with rraper 64 than reaper 32.maybe more work to do?
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 04:05 PM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
AFAIK Reaper doesn't use any graphics accelleration whatsoever, just relegates drawing of things to the OS.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 04:05 PM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
I think waves does some weird mojo with graphics and their shell DLL - I certainly remember in the past Waves having graphics issues in various DAWs including Reaper.
|
Yes I have this memory too. But really is worse in 64 bit reaper than 32, althoug in 32 is not much smooth at all...
Last edited by Masterlands; 11-17-2017 at 04:15 PM.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 04:14 PM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
AFAIK Reaper doesn't use any graphics accelleration whatsoever, just relegates drawing of things to the OS.
|
...so I understand this less every time...it makes no sense for me. I tried all the imaginable tweaks and performance configurations without succes.
Fortunately as I said, this is not a drama but it rusts me to know i don't have it working at it's best!
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 04:19 PM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
My graphics card is an Nvidia geforce 8300 integrated in the MOBO, not a bih deal.
Is it possible that under a 64bit structure, the combination of OS and GCard needs more resources to work? This maybe would explain the difference, and the fact you don't experience it.
|
|
|
11-17-2017, 05:11 PM
|
#19
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
|
Worth noting that over the past few years I experienced regular issues with MY Nvidia GFX card and windows updating the drivers.
You might want to check that you are actually using the NVidia driver you think you are and not windows own flavour of it in the later OS.
Insidious stuff goes on with windows update even when you think you are monitoring every aspect of it...
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 04:19 AM
|
#20
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,674
|
So that we can understand better and rule out a few things, can you post a full-size pic of the same project/screen of each system? Please use exactly the same Reaper version on each (v5.40, 32-bit).
Also what is the native screen resolution and the actual resolution configured in each OS? And the NVidia driver version(s?).
How to post screenshots (in Post #2)
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 04:34 AM
|
#21
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
Screenshots won't help here, what OP is talking about is happening in realtime as you change parameters, supposedly.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 05:30 AM
|
#22
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
So that we can understand better and rule out a few things, can you post a full-size pic of the same project/screen of each system? Please use exactly the same Reaper version on each (v5.40, 32-bit).
Also what is the native screen resolution and the actual resolution configured in each OS? And the NVidia driver version(s?).
How to post screenshots (in Post #2)
|
We would need to attach a video to see it. I will see what i can do.
Please note that I can reproduce the problem from windows 7 OS without needing to go to XP. In win7 i can open both versions of Reaper.
Nvidia drivers are the latest one. I updated it when I realized the problem. Are from Nvidia. But doesn't matter, since I make the comparisons with the same hardware and OS...
I could update the 32 bit version to the latest, but precisely this is the version that operates smoothly. Don't believe it'd change nothing...is the 64bit which needs to be improved on graphics, in my opinion.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 05:31 AM
|
#23
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Screenshots won't help here, what OP is talking about is happening in realtime as you change parameters, supposedly.
|
Exactly.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 05:36 AM
|
#24
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,674
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlands
Please note that I can reproduce the problem from windows 7 OS without needing to go to XP. In win7 I can open both versions of Reaper.
|
That seems to be the clincher.
Does it occur for all EQ plug-ins or 'only' reaEQ?
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 05:36 AM
|
#25
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlands
is the 64bit which needs to be improved on graphics, in my opinion.
|
And I think you're wrong, because there are no differences between 64-bit and 32-bit as far as graphics are concerned, over here. With any plugin that I have.
Again, Reaper doesn't use any GPU accelleration (AFAICT), so this is all down to how Windows handle things, since Reaper is all about using win32 API.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 06:06 AM
|
#26
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
And I think you're wrong, because there are no differences between 64-bit and 32-bit as far as graphics are concerned, over here. this is all down to how Windows handle things, since Reaper is all about using win32 API.
|
I can assume this. What OS you use?
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 07:18 AM
|
#27
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
W10 64-bit. But that shouldn't matter much - win32 API is the same regardless of OS version (AFAIK) - an API call on XP is the same API call on W10, because Windows is backwards compatible like that. Of course, each new Windows version usually introduces new API calls, but it's up to the program to use them. In any case, drawing stuff on the screen are pretty basic APIs that were there in Windows years and years ago.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 07:41 AM
|
#28
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
W10 64-bit. But that shouldn't matter much - win32 API is the same regardless of OS version (AFAIK) - an API call on XP is the same API call on W10, because Windows is backwards compatible like that. Of course, each new Windows version usually introduces new API calls, but it's up to the program to use them. In any case, drawing stuff on the screen are pretty basic APIs that were there in Windows years and years ago.
|
Assuming ot's an API thing, my point is, why API for reaper 32 bit works better in my computer than API for reaper 64bit?
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 07:42 AM
|
#29
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
Because your computer is weird? Dunno.
Such a minor quibble to worry about. Make music.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 08:05 AM
|
#30
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,254
|
Case in point.
Though I believe the OP, I think 32 vs 64 bit is a red herring - I'm sure it happens but saying that's not the underlying problem to look at. I'm fairly sure it's the usage of OpenGL et al and the card being used and it's support of OpenGL - along with Waves generally having a history of video problems compared most other plugin companies - This probably takes much of the Windows API out of it since it's depending on the card instead of the OS to do the rendering.
This is actually one reason I haven't bought into Waves. There are a few plugs of theirs I'd like to have but the historical video issues have always made me hesitant.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 08:07 AM
|
#31
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Because your computer is weird? Dunno.
Such a minor quibble to worry about. Make music.
|
The first who became tired, anybody els in the room? Haha!
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 08:12 AM
|
#32
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Case in point.
Though I believe the OP, I think 32 vs 64 bit is a red herring - I'm sure it happens but saying that's not the underlying problem to look at. I'm fairly sure it's the usage of OpenGL et al and the card being used and it's support of OpenGL - along with Waves generally having a history of video problems compared most other plugin companies - This probably takes much of the Windows API out of it since it's depending on the card instead of the OS to do the rendering.
This is actually one reason I haven't bought into Waves. There are a few plugs of theirs I'd like to have but the historical video issues have always made me hesitant.
|
But the card and all the other is the same when testing between 32 and 64....it can't be.
Well this wasn't a major issue, I allways told is small diference.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 08:28 AM
|
#33
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,254
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlands
But the card and all the other is the same when testing between 32 and 64....it can't be.
Well this wasn't a major issue, I allways told is small diference.
|
32/64 is likely just exposing the problem/bug without actually being the problem, that's what I'm trying to say. Think of bit depth from a repro perspective instead of a root cause perspective. Chances are drivers (newer or older) or different video card will fix this. My guess is Waves uses OpenGL (or similar) in such away that all video cards/drivers don't play with it nicely.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 11-18-2017 at 08:34 AM.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 08:35 AM
|
#34
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
But the guy also says it supposedly also happens with ReaEQ. Which doesn't do OpenGL.
|
|
|
11-18-2017, 08:43 AM
|
#35
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,254
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
But the guy also says it supposedly also happens with ReaEQ. Which doesn't do OpenGL.
|
Ah... I thought it was just waves. However...
I did no checks beyond seeing what Reaper had loaded so take ^that with a grain of salt. Since I have monitoring FX loaded I can't be sure but until I go back and reread the whole thread (to get my foot out of my mouth), I'm still on the drivers/card wagon and bitness being a repro method not a difference of 64-32=32 bits problem.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
|
|
|
11-19-2017, 03:05 AM
|
#36
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
|
One thing: Nobody has suggested he do a complete (including any old rogue stuff left over from earlier installations) of all the waves stuff and then reinstall the lot via Waves Central.
I had recurring random weirdness with waves plugs until I finally did a really thorough search of my drives and nuked ALL the old Waves folders and files.uninstall.
Certainly worth a try.
And FWIW I have had no issues with any of my waves plugs since I did this.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
|
|
|
11-20-2017, 03:42 AM
|
#37
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
32/64 is likely just exposing the problem/bug without actually being the problem, that's what I'm trying to say.
|
I completely think the same.
|
|
|
11-20-2017, 03:43 AM
|
#38
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
But the guy also says it supposedly also happens with ReaEQ. Which doesn't do OpenGL.
|
Right.
And not only plotting eq curves, because in waves linear mb the issue is when moving faders.
|
|
|
11-20-2017, 03:51 AM
|
#39
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 31
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
One thing: Nobody has suggested he do a complete (including any old rogue stuff left over from earlier installations) of all the waves stuff and then reinstall the lot via Waves Central.
I had recurring random weirdness with waves plugs until I finally did a really thorough search of my drives and nuked ALL the old Waves folders and files.uninstall.
Certainly worth a try.
And FWIW I have had no issues with any of my waves plugs since I did this.
|
Hi.
System is just installed from zero in a blank SSD. No way I reinstall anything 😁, I'm tired fighting with my PC😊.
But please I wouldn't focus this on waves plugins. It was mentioned only as an example of an extreme case.
Just Reaeq within an empty project already shows the difference between 32 and 64, although it's still minimum I admit.
Really you can make music anyway and it's an small issue, but I posted this cause I consider important to find out the reason WHY it's happening.
And I think Evildragon is right pointing the problem isn't the reaper versions itself.
|
|
|
11-20-2017, 05:12 AM
|
#40
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,785
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlands
And I think Evildragon is right pointing the problem isn't the reaper versions itself.
|
Yes. Actually, it's not a Reaper issue altogether, is what I'm saying.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:04 AM.
|