Old 06-17-2019, 06:56 AM   #1
Coachz
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Default LUFS Master Meter option please

Can we please get LUFS as an option for master metering please ? LUFS is used by all the streaming services and is a solid standard now so it would be great to have it in Reaper. RMS simply doesn't address the needs.

Here is a cubase example. Thanks awesome devs !

https://youtu.be/uVkSQrPPuo8?t=415
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:57 AM   #2
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This would be cool.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:55 AM   #3
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Would be nice to have as a option in Reaper
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:21 AM   #4
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+1 for this recruit
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:16 AM   #5
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LUFS is hard - do you want integrated, short term or momentary? Each has it's drawbacks as a master track meter, depending on the intent of the operator.

I suppose one could go for utter overkill, and have 5 layers of metering: peak, RMS, momentary, short term, and integrated all overlaid on one meter...
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
LUFS is hard - do you want integrated, short term or momentary? Each has it's drawbacks as a master track meter, depending on the intent of the operator.

I suppose one could go for utter overkill, and have 5 layers of metering: peak, RMS, momentary, short term, and integrated all overlaid on one meter...
Like any other meter out there, we should have a choice of any of them and a simple reset button to restart the collection. I don't need them all at once and usually just use Integrated.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
LUFS is hard - do you want integrated, short term or momentary?
It's not really a proper LUFS meter if it doesn't display all three. Of course the textbook application of integrated means you'd have to play the entire song, beginning to end in Reaper to see the correct value (which is why I prefer offline tools like Orban for that) but.... That does not mean one couldn't play a thirty second section and use integrated as a measure of that section (it just may not be the LUFS value of the entire song which integrated is typically used for aka streaming targets etc.).

That said the loudness metering landscape has changed, time to keep up... one can create as great a mix as anyone without any metering (except maybe a clip meter), but if someone does need loudness metering to meet various requirements, they probably need to use/understand LUFs metering.

Lastly, I have no idea how hard it is to code, but the metering results aren't that hard to understand with some effort. I think I spent an afternoon reading up on it to get my head wrapped around the concept and was time well-invested.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It's not really a proper LUFS meter if it doesn't display all three. Of course the textbook application of integrated means you'd have to play the entire song, beginning to end in Reaper to see the correct value (which is why I prefer offline tools like Orban for that) but.... That does not mean one couldn't play a thirty second section and use integrated as a measure of that section (it just may not be the LUFS value of the entire song which integrated is typically used for aka streaming targets etc.).

That said the loudness metering landscape has changed, time to keep up... one can create as great a mix as anyone without any metering (except maybe a clip meter), but if someone does need loudness metering to meet various requirements, they probably need to use/understand LUFs metering.

Lastly, I have no idea how hard it is to code, but the metering results aren't that hard to understand with some effort. I think I spent an afternoon reading up on it to get my head wrapped around the concept and was time well-invested.
I've been mastering my songs between 13 and 14 lufs integrated and comparing the finished mixes to my 20 or so references and they are correlating well. I typically play the louder chorus sections for only about 10 to 20 seconds while resetting the lufs meter every 10 seconds or so. I'm no lufs expert but the end result is working fine for me.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
I typically play the louder chorus sections for only about 10 to 20 seconds while resetting the lufs meter every 10 seconds or so. I'm no lufs expert but the end result is working fine for me.
If the song doesn't have sections that vary dynamics enough, then any 20 second section will be accurate enough - how much the mix varies dynamically is key. As mentioned somewhere else, I have YouLean on monitoring FX 24/7 and FabFilter Pro L-2 on my master 24/7 and both show LUFS - I use them in a similar fashion while mixing - I always use Orban when I want to know the result of the final render though. I don't necessarily need LUFS on the master meter personally, but I'd not kick it out of bed for eating crackers either.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
If the song doesn't have sections that vary dynamics enough, then any 20 second section will be accurate enough - how much the mix varies dynamically is key. As mentioned somewhere else, I have YouLean on monitoring FX 24/7 and FabFilter Pro L-2 on my master 24/7 and both show LUFS - I use them in a similar fashion while mixing - I always use Orban when I want to know the result of the final render though. I don't necessarily need LUFS on the master meter personally, but I'd not kick it out of bed for eating crackers either.
How do you see those meters when mixing? A 2nd monitor should not be needed and since fx windows can't be put in the background its not practical to continuously display lufs. Putting lufs in the master meter solves this.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
How do you see those meters when mixing?
I just click on it and it opens. It's not something I have ever felt the need to continuously monitor, spot checks only. Now I do have those two spankin 27" monitors so when I do want to leave either open, they go on monitor two.

I'm really a two monitor guy though, have been since early 2000s, too much window swapping with one monitor regardless of apps I'm using YMMV. Like I said, I have no problem putting it on the master though other than it could likely never display the amount of info say YouLean does, in the way that it does. Don't mind if it is there though.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
the loudness metering landscape has changed, time to keep up...
That's right, Karbo. 'Twould be nice to not have to implement yet another workaround to achieve baseline functionality (circa 2019 that is).
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:18 PM   #13
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This and many things were mentioned in the mastering request thread that went nowhere.

Native metering that easily resets with the transport is crucial to be considered a serious mastering DAW. Especially time sensitive readings like LUFS.

Yes, there are a few great plugin options but having great internal native metering is a huge selling point for something like WaveLab. No inserting or dealing with plugins, just a great set of LUFS (and other) meters and analyzers at your disposal.

Somebody will suggest mediocre scripts and workarounds, but some things just need to be well thought out and part of the DAW to really be elegant.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRMJP View Post
This and many things were mentioned in the mastering request thread that went nowhere.

Native metering that easily resets with the transport is crucial to be considered a serious mastering DAW. Especially time sensitive readings like LUFS.

Yes, there are a few great plugin options but having great internal native metering is a huge selling point for something like WaveLab. No inserting or dealing with plugins, just a great set of LUFS (and other) meters and analyzers at your disposal.

Somebody will suggest mediocre scripts and workarounds, but some things just need to be well thought out and part of the DAW to really be elegant.

Completely agree with this.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubbaseDnB View Post
Completely agree with this.
Yup. And lufs are a solid standard now being used everywhere so it's a perfect time to add them.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:01 AM   #16
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REAPER could be so great in this department with some effort but they don't seem into it. One thing REAPER could borrow from Studio One mastering project mode is a way offline analyze a song and display the pre and post master section loudness because as mentioned, Integrated LUFS requires playing or analyzing an entire song or piece of audio. In most cases, and offline method would be faster than real-time.

I know there are extensions to analyze existing items in a session, but the only thing I cared for in Studio One project mode for mastering was the ability to choose a song/track and have it offline calculate the loudness both before and after any FX.
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:37 PM   #17
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+1 for proper modern metering options.
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:03 AM   #18
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I would also love the support of loudness in REAPER - metering and also normalizing and analyzing.
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:37 AM   #19
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This really need to be in Reaper
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