Old 01-08-2019, 08:42 PM   #1
timzibrat
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Default Saves and avtosaves are very slow

Hello.

I'm using the PLAY sampler from east west and I'm creating a pretty large orchestral template. Right now it's probably about 30gb of used RAM and I still have to add brass and nonpitched percussion. However, now that I have this many patches and instances (24 instances with each from 8-14 patches to be more exact), I'm really having difficulty working. At this point it takes me exactly 23 seconds to save. And it's the same amount for autosaves (which gets really annoying).

I've tried for quite some time to find a solution to this on the forum or by googling and couldn't find anything useful. I've tried with different hard drives (ssd and hdd in both raid0 and raid5 formations) for the project file and for the libraries, but the timing stays exactly the same. The reaper save file is 38mb big right now and when I check windows performance meter while saving, I don't see any spikes in cpu, hdd or memory for that matter. It simply takes 23 seconds to save no matter what I do.

I've also tried with both settings in the compatibility drop down for the plugin (save minimal undo settings). I'm running out of options and simply turning off autosave is something that is too risky for right now. I've tried all the setting that seemed connected in the project tab in the preferences, but nothing worked.

I would greatly appreciate any help and suggestions from you guys. I usually find all the answers already answered here, but this time I'm lost.

Thanks,
Tim

My specs:
Windows 10 64-bit
REAPER v5.965+dev1121/64bit
PLAY VST3 version 6.0.9
Cpu: Intel Xeon e5-2680 v2 @2.80GHz, 10core
Memory: 64GB RAM
Disks: Samsung SSD 250+500gb, 3x Toshiba HDD (Raid5 in firewire raid controller)
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:03 PM   #2
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As the Midi notes are stored in the project files, same can get really large.

-Michael
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:40 PM   #3
timzibrat
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Hi Michael.

Thanks for the suggestion. I made some tests and the results are not really satisfying. I've gotten down to 22.5 seconds from 23 second by deleting all the midi info in the project. Any other ideas? And btw, is this something normal for large projects?

-Tim
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:08 PM   #4
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How big is your undo and are you saving it with the project? That will cause big hangups if it's gigs large. Also, if your project is so large you are up against the RAM limits of your system, you will definitely experience bad slowdowns.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:17 PM   #5
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My maximum undo memory is set to 30mb. The checkbox "save undo history..." is unchecked. "When approaching full undo memory, keep..." is checked though.

I have about 24gb of RAM left with the project I described. Everything works super fast, just the saves and autosaves are slow.
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:40 PM   #6
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That's unfortunate. Antivirus could interfere with file writing perhaps. But maybe the file size of the project is very large. If that's the case, maybe you can set the memory hogging plugin to "save minimal undo states." Right click it in the browser to do this. Especially if the plugin has its own internal undo system, Reaper doesn't need to also save the whole state of the plugin in the project.

Be careful with this setting though, as it can potentially cause the state of the plugin to not be saved with the project.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:43 PM   #7
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Did I read your post correctly in that the Reaper file is 38 M (as in Mega) bytes?

If so, can you create some kind of file of comparable size and move it from from one of the local drives to the array and see how long that takes?

You mentioned that you've tried both RAID 0 and 5 arrays, is it safe to say that it was the same RAID controller in both configurations?

If you're able to move that large file from a local drive to the array and it goes fairly quickly, then the array controller is probably ok. However if the move operation is somewhat slow as well, you might want to take a look at the controller, could be write cache or error checking issue.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:52 PM   #8
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38MB is by no means a large file for an RPP or otherwise.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:00 PM   #9
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Yeah, the project file is 38mb. Changing save undo states etc. doesn't change anything, have tried all the combinations.

Copying the project file from the raid array to a local drive or vice versa is
instant, so that should be fine.

I've also set the antivirus to ignore all reaper files, all project folders, plugin folders and sample folders, but it still doesn't improve. I've disabled the antivirus altogether and it doesn't really help, maybe 0.5 seconds, but that could be just wrong timing start or end.

What kind of a saving time would you guys expect for such a project? Or maybe even bigger. I'v gone up to 80mb for a project file.

This info might be helpful though. I've set all the PLAY plugins into an offline state (which leaves practically no online plugins) and it saved instantly. This isn't as much as surprise as seeing, that the project file size hasn't changed. This kind of directs me into the PLAY plugin and also it's use of RAM and how it's related to the saving speed. I would need to try Kontakt and fill it up to the same RAM use as PLAY and see if it still saves this slowly.

UPDATE:
Reaper crashed when changing the offline/online state of PLAY and it created the problem of my soundcard not being recognized. The drivers are apparently still linked to the crashed reaper instance (I've read about this and some suggest that only a restart helps or reconnecting the device sometimes), but separate of this problem: When the soundcard (Roland STUDIO-CAPTURE) wasn't connected, the whole project saved in 18 seconds. Don't know how to wrap my head around this.

Last edited by timzibrat; 01-17-2019 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:11 PM   #10
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30mb is an average size project for me and shouldn't take any time at all to save. Your problem is definitely unusual. Have you tried asking on the EastWest forum if anyone's using Reaper with it?
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:40 PM   #11
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This "issue" is pretty normal. Same as with Kontakt, all the patch data has to be saved. It's the same with every DAW, Reaper is no exception.

I was confronted with the same phenomenon in Cubase.
Deactivated tracks made my project save faster, but the size
was still huge (around 500 MB here).

My solution is to use track templates, that I can quickly insert into a project. Keeps the project small and the loading times at a very bearable level.
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:05 PM   #12
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So basically no amount of upgrades to the hardware, there's still gonna be awfully long saves and autosaves? This is truly a bummer. There's so much more creativity when you have a full template open and can experiment in contrast to having to think which smaller part of the template to bring up, wait and hope that it fits as you imagined. I really hope there's a solution to this somehow or at least that it's coming in the near future. Thanks for your input _Stevie_.. hope will prevail in me. I will also do some research of east west forums.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:14 PM   #13
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Yeah, that's the depressing outcome, indeed. No matter how fast your computer is, it will always have to digest all the patches.
I know what you mean, concerning the palette... It's truly a time saver to have everything right at your fingertips. But then again, I'm asking myself: isn't it just as fast to load a track template as scrolling/searching thru your project? It's just a matter of organization. At its best, loading a track template shouldn't take longer than 1-2 seconds:

- opening the resource window (preferrably docked)
- enter the desired instrument name into the search field
- press enter to load it into the project
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:48 PM   #14
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I read some posts on the east west forum and someone started talking about Vienna Ensemble Pro 6. Specifically about the ability, to reduce save times of the projects in Cubase (or in our case Reaper). This seems like a perfect solution for this. I will try it out and let you know. It makes sense, even when using one PC apparently. And if anyone of you has any experience with it, I'd appreciate some input.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:13 PM   #15
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I own VE Pro 6 but there are several reasons, why I don't use it.

- I like to have one volume fader per track and this would result in a lot of outputs you have to route from VE Pro or Reaper.

- you always have to make sure, that you are using the right VE Pro template. If you changed a single detail for a project (like replacing one instrument with another), you have to keep track of all these versions.

- managing a template really takes a lot of effort. When you add new instruments you have to add them to the end (otherwise older projects will connected to the wrong instances)

Maybe some of these aspects changed in the meanwhile, but I would investigate this in depth, before you jumping on the VE Pro wagon.
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