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Old 08-07-2020, 06:00 AM   #1
monty
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Default manjaro/arch recommendation - linux-ck tickless kernel or xanmod?

currently only outdated RT kernels are available which also cause some problems here ...
so i want to try out an alternative kernel could you guys give me a recommendation on that?

- linux-ck (seems to be a tickless kernel)
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Linux-ck

- linux-xanmod (500Hz)
- linux-lqx (liquorix 1000Hz)
- linux-zen

which one would be best for a good performance & minimal latency?

linux-ck looks interesting ...
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:10 AM   #2
4duhwinnn
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I'm not a kernel expert, and have only used Arch and Manjaro
for about six months in recent years, but I've not read complaints
that kernels from Arch are bad for making music. Outdated is a
somewhat loaded term, especially since the newest kernels often have
less testing out in the wilds, of which linux audio is
a hungry denizen.

Here's an Arch related kernel discussion detailing performance
comparisons of different kernel choices:

https://forum.manjaro.org/t/kernel-p...-model/41372/5

I would install a Ubuntu Studio or AVLinux on a spare drive/partition
for real-world comparisons using the same apps.
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Old 08-08-2020, 01:10 AM   #3
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Liquorix is 250 Hz only. I'm using the stock RT kernel from Debian
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilith93 View Post
Liquorix is 250 Hz only. I'm using the stock RT kernel from Debian
Liquorix (linux-lqx) is set to 1000hz but i don't see any improvement:
High Resolution Scheduling: High resolution timeouts and 1000hz tick rate for precise low jitter task scheduling.
https://liquorix.net/


I've tested them all and the Xanmod kernel is definitely my favorite!
compared to the stock manjaro & RT kernel!
- DSP load reduced by 2%
- entire system reacts faster
- less CPU load

https://xanmod.org/
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:29 PM   #5
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Thanks for recommending the xanmod kernel, I installed it on linux mx and finally don't have any dropouts when playing back audio.Both onboard and Behringer UCA222 for digital recording on minidisc. I have to check my soundcraft notepad though. But I have this feeling that I can stick with linux for audio.

Last edited by Nixon; 08-08-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:20 PM   #6
lilith93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monty View Post
Liquorix (linux-lqx) is set to 1000hz but i don't see any improvement:
High Resolution Scheduling: High resolution timeouts and 1000hz tick rate for precise low jitter task scheduling.
https://liquorix.net/


I've tested them all and the Xanmod kernel is definitely my favorite!
compared to the stock manjaro & RT kernel!
- DSP load reduced by 2%
- entire system reacts faster
- less CPU load

https://xanmod.org/
Are you sure?

https://techpatterns.com/forums/abou...&highlight=250

Edit: seems it's back 1000 Hz
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:38 AM   #7
monty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilith93 View Post
Are you sure?

https://techpatterns.com/forums/abou...&highlight=250

Edit: seems it's back 1000 Hz
you can check current tickrate
Code:
zgrep ^CONFIG_HZ /proc/config.gz
xanmod use 500Hz but it shows better results compared to liquorix & other kernel
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:53 AM   #8
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I have compiled (about 1 hour) my linux-xanmod with following settings:
Code:
_microarchitecture=10 (CPU AMD piledriver)
use_numa=n (Set variable "use_numa" to: n to disable possibly increase performance)
use_tracers=n (Set variable "use_tracers" to: n to disable possibly increase performance)
see
Code:
    Available CPU microarchitectures:

    1) AMD K6/K6-II/K6-III
    2) AMD Athlon/Duron/K7
    3) AMD Opteron/Athlon64/Hammer/K8
    4) AMD Opteron/Athlon64/Hammer/K8 with SSE3
    5) AMD 61xx/7x50/PhenomX3/X4/II/K10
    6) AMD Family 10h (Barcelona)
    7) AMD Family 14h (Bobcat)
    8) AMD Family 16h (Jaguar)
    9) AMD Family 15h (Bulldozer)
   10) AMD Family 15h (Piledriver)
   11) AMD Family 15h (Steamroller)
   12) AMD Family 15h (Excavator)
   13) AMD Family 17h (Zen)
   14) AMD Family 17h (Zen 2)
   15) Transmeta Crusoe
   16) Transmeta Efficeon
   17) IDT Winchip C6
   18) Winchip-2/Winchip-2A/Winchip-3
   19) AMD Elan
   20) Geode GX1 (Cyrix MediaGX)
   21) AMD Geode GX and LX
   22) Cyrix III or C3
   23) VIA C3 "Nehemiah"
   24) VIA C7
   25) Intel Pentium 4, Pentium D and older Nocona/Dempsey Xeon CPUs with Intel 64bit
   26) Intel Atom
   27) Intel Core 2 and newer Core 2 Xeons (Xeon 51xx and 53xx)
   28) Intel 1st Gen Core i3/i5/i7-family (Nehalem)
   29) Intel 1.5 Gen Core i3/i5/i7-family (Westmere)
   30) Intel Silvermont
   31) Intel Goldmont (Apollo Lake and Denverton)
   32) Intel Goldmont Plus (Gemini Lake)
   33) Intel 2nd Gen Core i3/i5/i7-family (Sandybridge)
   34) Intel 3rd Gen Core i3/i5/i7-family (Ivybridge)
   35) Intel 4th Gen Core i3/i5/i7-family (Haswell)
   36) Intel 5th Gen Core i3/i5/i7-family (Broadwell)
   37) Intel 6th Gen Core i3/i5/i7-family (Skylake)
   38) Intel 6th Gen Core i7/i9-family (Skylake X)
   39) Intel 8th Gen Core i3/i5/i7-family (Cannon Lake)
   40) Intel 8th Gen Core i7/i9-family (Ice Lake)
   41) Xeon processors in the Cascade Lake family

   42) Native optimizations autodetected by GCC

    0) Generic (default)
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Last edited by monty; 08-09-2020 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:10 AM   #9
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maybe you're already good to go with the Arch stock kernel, I quote from what Fons Adriansen once posted to the linux audio user-list (http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.co...97p109129.html):

Quote:
The standard kernel runs RT threads quite well. I've been using it on at least 20 Arch machines all doing audio work, and some of them quite heavy stuff with dozens of Jack clients and 64 channels in and out. No problems at all.

Many of the original RT patches have been incorporated in the standard kernel for years now.

You may need the RT kernel if you use very short audio periods, some people go as low as 16 frames.
and I can confirm that, once certain important settings set well, no problems occur here on my computer. crucial was power management and maybe the irq-settings. but with that understood and taken into consideration audio works really well.
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:21 PM   #10
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I switched to Manjaro 20.1 yesterday. The RT kernel in the repo (added using Manjaro's "hardware configuration" utility) works great. The only problem I had: after installing it, booting to it (selecting it in the boot menu), then installing the proprietary Nvidia driver for my GPU, Manjaro didn't automatically add the RT kernel module for the Nvidia driver which goes along with using the RT kernel. After I did that everything was fine.

Ubuntu-based distros that I have used seem to be aware if a lowlatency kernel is installed/active, and then when installing the Nvidia driver it pulls in that extra package automatically. So I got caught off guard, expecting that to happen in Manjaro too.

The RT kernel in the Manjaro repo actually performs a bit better than the lowlatency kernels used in Ubuntu distros (the lowlatency kernels in those repos), allowing me to use more plugins with the same amount of CPU; it's about 3% more efficient. That 3% isn't a deal breaker but having extra stability at low latency is nice.

No other system configuration was required beyond adding the RT kernel. But I don't use Jack and standalone synths etc., so Reaper's performance using ALSA (and plugins within Reaper) is my concern. Well, I did have to change the CPU frequency governor to "performance" but that's a standard thing I do regardless of distro or OS for that matter. The utility I used in Debian-based distros wasn't available in the repos for Manjaro so I just did that in Terminal with a single command.

I gotta say, I'm liking Manjaro. The RT kernel works well, the repos have very up-to-date software (not even considering AUR, Snap, Flatpak which I left disabled for now), and it's a fairly cohesive easy-to-use distro. I'm using XFCE but I noticed there are other DE "flavors" (not just the "official" Gnome and KDE ones but also Cinnamon etc. supported by the community). I'm a little surprised that Manjaro was under my radar. Perhaps when I heard it was an Arch-based distro, I just assumed it would be more trouble than other "user-friendly" distros.

One more odd thing I noticed: fstrim.timer wasn't set to automatically run. I'm used to seeing that in distros already enabled, but this time it wasn't. It was very easy to enable (and it persists through shutdown/restart) but that did surprise me a bit.
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:56 PM   #11
monty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
I switched to Manjaro 20.1 yesterday. The RT kernel in the repo (added using Manjaro's "hardware configuration" utility) works great. The only problem I had: after installing it, booting to it (selecting it in the boot menu), then installing the proprietary Nvidia driver for my GPU, Manjaro didn't automatically add the RT kernel module for the Nvidia driver which goes along with using the RT kernel. After I did that everything was fine.
Code:
sudo pacman -Syu linux56-rt linux56-rt-headers linux56-rt-nvidia-450xx
or you can use nvidia dkms
Code:
sudo pacman -Syu linux56-rt linux56-rt-headers
sudo pacman -Syu nvidia-450xx-dkms nvidia-450xx-utils lib32-nvidia-450xx-utils lib32-opencl-nvidia-450xx-utils
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