SF2 VST3i synth for Linux/Windows

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by porzione

Try https://sfz.tools/sfizz/ - sfz (not sf2) vst3/lv2 synth
besides full GM you can find high quality sfz banks for drums, piano, etc

Wow, looks really nice. Thanks for sharing!

[Stoker]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

It's nice being able to play a GM file when you need to.

... as you say nice to be able to play a GM file every now and then. I got this (FluidSynth (AZ)) working this morning but so far it doesn't seem to respond to program change messages.

I'm having to go through each PC meassage and manually set up the prog number which is very time consuming and error prone!

I must be doing something wrong, surely!

Any ideas?

--Ian

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Stoker

... as you say nice to be able to play a GM file every now and then. I got this (FluidSynth (AZ)) working this morning but so far it doesn't seem to respond to program change messages.

I'm having to go through each PC meassage and manually set up the prog number which is very time consuming and error prone!

I must be doing something wrong, surely!

Any ideas?

--Ian

Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing. I'd never really tried playing a GM file through this, only auditioning that I could select sounds and play them live from my midi keyboard.

I just downloaded this GM file that was a Roland demo for their GM synths, and viewing the event list, it's got a bunch of patch change events that aren't being honored.

http://poingo.www6.50megs.com/elp/tarkus.mid

I tried expanding to individual tracks, each with an instance of FLUID, and I tried it on a single track and neither followed the patch changes.

So then I tried three different GM soundfonts, and still no patch changes. I don't know if it's something in REAPER or something with the VSTi3. Azslow3 hasn't been around here since 2020, so it's doubtful any changes for the player will happen.

[juliansader]

I was excited to try this VST on Windows 10. As others noted, it doesn't seem to respond to program changes yet. Also, whenever I try to route more than one track to the VST, REAPER crashes with a C++ runtime error.

[Stoker]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing. I'd never really tried playing a GM file through this, only auditioning that I could select sounds and play them live from my midi keyboard.

I just downloaded this GM file that was a Roland demo for their GM synths, and viewing the event list, it's got a bunch of patch change events that aren't being honored.

http://poingo.www6.50megs.com/elp/tarkus.mid

I tried expanding to individual tracks, each with an instance of FLUID, and I tried it on a single track and neither followed the patch changes.

So then I tried three different GM soundfonts, and still no patch changes. I don't know if it's something in REAPER or something with the VSTi3. Azslow3 hasn't been around here since 2020, so it's doubtful any changes for the player will happen.

I've found a way to make it recognise patch changes.

On the user interface there's a button with a '+' sign on it (next to the 'Param' button). Click on the + then select 'Link to MIDI program change' then 'Link all channels sequentially'.

After doing this the VST will honour the PC messages. However it doesn't seem to respond to any other controllers such as pitch bend, volume or pan etc. Also, this setting seems to be not persistent as I need to set it each time I put an instance of FLuidSynth (AZ) on a track.

Originally Posted by juliansader

I was excited to try this VST on Windows 10. As others noted, it doesn't seem to respond to program changes yet. Also, whenever I try to route more than one track to the VST, REAPER crashes with a C++ runtime error.

I don't get a crash when routing multiple MIDI tracks to FluidSynth (AZ), using Ubuntu not Windows though.

--Ian

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Stoker

I've found a way to make it recognise patch changes.

On the user interface there's a button with a '+' sign on it (next to the 'Param' button). Click on the + then select 'Link to MIDI program change' then 'Link all channels sequentially'.

After doing this the VST will honour the PC messages. However it doesn't seem to respond to any other controllers such as pitch bend, volume or pan etc. Also, this setting seems to be not persistent as I need to set it each time I put an instance of FLuidSynth (AZ) on a track.

That seems to fix the program changing here. I made a track template with it after changing that option, so if I ever try to use it, I won't have to remember to change that setting.

[audiojunkie]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Unfortunately I can't disagree on that POV, as there is no sign from NI to even consider taking a look at Linux, or other Archs than X86, which seems rather short sighted, regarding the rapid development with ARM hardware and the fact that even M$ provides Windows (now: IOT, already testabel: Desktop) for ARM.

But there is Open Office as a Contender for M$ Word files on the RasPi ...



That of course is correct, but the scripting power Kontakt provides ways to do realistic sound that are not (yet) possible with SF (see e.g. https://samplemodeling.com/en/products.php, and if you like songs I provided in the "Music/Collaboration" subforum. (And obvious the number of available complex libraries is unbeatable.)

-Michael

Isn't LinuxSampler already available for ARM? The LinuxSampler team have been putting scripting into LinuxSampler over the last several years. It's close to being on par with Kontakt's scripting, and even matches most of the scripting code. In other words, if you know how to script Kontakt, you most likely know how to script LinuxSampler.....and, if I'm not mistaken, it IS available for ARM. :-)

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by audiojunkie

Isn't LinuxSampler already available for ARM? The LinuxSampler team have been putting scripting into LinuxSampler over the last several years. It's close to being on par with Kontakt's scripting, and even matches most of the scripting code. In other words, if you know how to script Kontakt, you most likely know how to script LinuxSampler.....and, if I'm not mistaken, it IS available for ARM. :-)

Looks like LinuxSampler is available for ARM on the KXStudio page.

https://kx.studio/Repositories:Plugins

.

[JazzCat]

Originally Posted by porzione

Try https://sfz.tools/sfizz/ - sfz (not sf2) vst3/lv2 synth
besides full GM you can find high quality sfz banks for drums, piano, etc

This is a lifesaver on Linux. It's a tad buggy when you're getting started, but once you're used to it as long as you aren't changing instruments while the mix is playing and follow a few other rules you should be fine.

[Chimpscookie]

Sfizz looks promising but right now i'm seeing high RT CPU usage from just one instance. I'll be sticking with BassMIDIVSTi for now but will keep an eye on sfizz's development.

I try to keep my 3rd party plugins linux friendly as possible, in case i got tired of windows. Damn those white dialog boxes i'm almost there.

[pax-eterna]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I don't see Kontakt ever being offered in any native Linux flavor, but a soundfont player would go a long ways toward making REAPER for Raspberry Pi a usable composition tool for midi.

Here on the REAPER feature request hotline, I will officially suggest that Cockos should concoct a simple soundfont player to include with the other Rea plugins for all versions of REAPER.

Yes indeed! +1

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by pax-eterna

Yes indeed! +1

I've used Carla to play soundfonts on my Raspberry Pi, but if I were trying it now, I'd prolly use the ARM version of LinuxSampler.

[reapercurious]

hi,

I've installed Fluidsynth in Manjaro through the regular package manager, but Reaper can't find it. Cool, I'll try another way; to install it by finding a Linux build at the official github: https://github.com/AZSlow3/FluidSynthVST and dropping that into one of my plugin folders. I did that and Reaper (The linux Version) still couldn't see it.

Any Ideas why this sort of thing would happen?

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by reapercurious

hi,

I've installed Fluidsynth in Manjaro through the regular package manager, but Reaper can't find it. Cool, I'll try another way; to install it by finding a Linux build at the official github: https://github.com/AZSlow3/FluidSynthVST and dropping that into one of my plugin folders. I did that and Reaper (The linux Version) still couldn't see it.

Any Ideas why this sort of thing would happen?

I'm on Manjaro and just tested it to confirm it still works. I don't really use it and installed it long ago. Anyway, I noticed that it is a VST3 so it has to have the folder structure of the what you downloaded, and that has to be in the .vst3 folder of your home folder. For me, that's /home/glennbo/.vst3/Fluid/ and Fluid must be with a capital "F" as Linux is case sensitive. Also you need to have a General Midi soundfont sitting in the Fluid folder with the name default.sf2 which the Azslow3 version of Fluid will automatically load.

[reapercurious]

I've never heard of anything like that before, a vst3 file having to be installed in a certain location.

/home/username/.vst3/FluidSynthVST_Lin64/

resides the file:

fluidsynthvst.vst3

by some miracle the .vst3 loads today, but the gui does not.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by reapercurious

I've never heard of anything like that before, a vst3 file having to be installed in a certain location.

/home/username/.vst3/FluidSynthVST_Lin64/

resides the file:

fluidsynthvst.vst3

by some miracle the .vst3 loads today, but the gui does not.

There is no GUI. It's a black box that with your self supplied GM soundfont can be used to play multichannel multi-timbral GM MIDI sequences into.

[reapercurious]

well no wonder!

I should read the thread again to see if fluidsynth can be used for easily loading different sf2 files.

what would be great is if sf2 files could just natively open as an instrument, there's no reason they should not by now, the libraries are already there, just need a little script.

[Chimpscookie]

I was actually excited to see FluidSynthVST but got quite turned off because the dev seems to have abandoned the project.

An alternative would be x42's GM Synth, made specifically for Ardour and is free to download. A trick i found is you can actually replace the soundfont that comes with it. You just need to remove the default SF2 inside the installation folder and replace it with the one you like then set the name to 'GeneralUser_LV2.sf2'.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by reapercurious

well no wonder!

I should read the thread again to see if fluidsynth can be used for easily loading different sf2 files.

what would be great is if sf2 files could just natively open as an instrument, there's no reason they should not by now, the libraries are already there, just need a little script.

I use LinuxSampler, which is another black box sample player, for SoundFonts and GigaSampler libraries. It's solid and using a front end like Qsampler or Jsampler, you can easily load multiple samples on different midi channels into one instance of LinuxSampler.

[pax-eterna]

Originally Posted by azslow3

.........PS. Many MIDI files sound better with Timbres Of Heaven font.

So that ONE sf file actually contains all 127 GM sound patches in it?

[reapercurious]

I recently went through most of the GM sf2 collections and fwiw I found the Touhou one to hit the spot, not too loud or fancy or peculiar, sounds included are on the better quality side, yet they are sounds I would expect from a GM set. A minus is that it's a bit harder to find than the rest.

[Stoker]

Originally Posted by Stoker

... as you say nice to be able to play a GM file every now and then. I got this (FluidSynth (AZ)) working this morning but so far it doesn't seem to respond to program change messages.

Just noticed there is a newer version of the FluidSynthVST (10/03/22) than the one I was using previously and, good news, it now seems to recognise and respond correctly to all program changes and other CC messages. GM files downloaded from the internet now (generally) sound as the author intended!

Thanks azslow3

--Ian

[azslow3]

For 2022, LV2 and CLAP are probably better for GM, since supported by REAPER.
VST3 is definitively not designed with GM in mind, I will even say it is specifically designed to make GM difficult (but that is conspiracy theory )

[mschnell]

What about VST3 do you think would be be disadvantageous regarding GM ?

-Michael

[azslow3]

Originally Posted by mschnell

What about VST3 do you think would be be disadvantageous regarding GM ?
-Michael

GM is multi-timbral, with 16 MIDI channel utilization and all settings done throw standard MIDI (bank/program and CC settings).
Steinberg has considered MIDI as "obsolete", so they do not support old fashion MIDI messages in VST3, other then "performance" related (f.e. notes). There was many complains and at least they support them for output from VST3 plug-ins (with "legacy" term in related API). For input, they prescribe rather tricky mapping to allow host translate PC/CC into something plug-in can receive. That mapping is designed to select presets for plug-in or a part of it and to have some set of parameters. When declared for everything GM synth needs, that means 16x128 "presets" (PCs) and up to 16x128 "parameters" (CCs). Especially for presets that looks really ugly (open presets list in REAPER for FluidSynth VST3). Note there is no (or I have not found) good way to at least make that logical. GM "preset" is selected by "program change" after "bank select". But there is no sense of "bank select" in VST3, so corresponding messages are declared by 2 CC "parameters". Ugly... no?

[mschnell]

Hmm.

(in Wiondows) I did make a (testing) VST3 using JUCE, that very happily receives and sends Midi CC messages.

Very happily Reaper and JUCE hide those VST3 API quirks from the plugin programmer

-Michael

[azslow3]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Hmm.

(in Wiondows) I did make a (testing) VST3 using JUCE, that very happily receives and sends Midi CC messages.

Very happily Reaper and JUCE hide those VST3 API quirks from the plugin programmer

-Michael

JUCE and REAPER can't hide that from end user. By definition (from Steinberg). Another explanation (my previous explanation assumes the reader knows VST3 API..., and not everyone here knows it):

• VST2 receives all MIDI messages sent to it, "as is", no need to inform the host which of these messages are going to be used. Host is not showing end users anything related to these messages.
• VST3 receives MIDI CC/PC it specially ask to receive, and they in turn must be parameters or presets. For host the purpose of such parameters and presets are not obvious, they can be "MIDI learn for real parameter" (original and the only purpose proposed by Steinberg). So host is forced to expose them all to the end user, as "parameters" and "presets".

You can use Google to find related complains.
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst3-...pitfall/201879

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by azslow3

• VST3 receives MIDI CC/PC it specially ask to receive, and they in turn must be parameters or presets. For host the purpose of such parameters and presets are not obvious, they can be "MIDI learn for real parameter" (original and the only purpose proposed by Steinberg). So host is forced to expose them all to the end user, as "parameters" and "presets".

So:

- Reaper converts MIDI CC messages to parameter changes and sends them to the VST3 plugin via the Steinberg API,

- Juce converts these parameter changes to Midi CC messages and sends them to the user code via the propriety JUCE API (which had been modeled with VST2 in Mind).

Hence the user code in a JUCE environment does not "see" if the project had been compiled to a VST2 or a VST3.

-Michael (did not try JUCE in Linux, but I do believe it exists)