Old 06-12-2024, 02:18 PM   #1
41TWIN
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 550
Default how do I sum 2 drum tracks down to one?

I know how to send them to a track. But if I mute the original tracks then the send track has nothing. I tried using the pre fader option too. But that didn't work. Which I think that just means oh hang on... that would work if i didn't hit mute but I ran the faders on the two tracks super far down?

I will have to try that. If there is a proper way to do that, I'm all ears. I would like to try just getting a mix on the drums and then compressing just the one track of both mixed in...

Thanks in advance for the help!!!!!!!!!!
41TWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2024, 03:16 PM   #2
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,855
Default

To make a subgroup/bus routing, the tracks you send to the bus track need to ONLY send to the bus track. That means disabling the master/parent send (enabled by default) on those tracks. Think of this just like a send to a track but it just has more a specialized enable/disable control.

You can disable tracks from being routed to the master by default in preferences if you wish. If you mostly use groups/buses and only the last mix bus track ever gets routed to the master, for example.
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2024, 07:24 PM   #3
rncwalker
Human being with feelings
 
rncwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Fl.
Posts: 826
Default

Try this





Robert
rncwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2024, 08:19 AM   #4
41TWIN
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 550
Default

The only thing is I don't always want it to do that cuz I send all tracks to reverb and delay tracks.....
41TWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2024, 08:32 AM   #5
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,855
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 41TWIN View Post
The only thing is I don't always want it to do that cuz I send all tracks to reverb and delay tracks.....
Using buses/subgroups will not alter that or get in the way of that ability.
Send from the source tracks to fx like always. Sending the track outputs to a bus track instead of directly to the master doesn't change anything there.

The case that some people freak out about and make a ton of extra complex work is when you turn down a bus/group track... the send on the source track doesn't follow. So the fx stay the same level when you turn down the bus. This really isn't a big deal and doesn't get in the way much if you don't let it. There are VCA style features though if it does. Keep it simple until it really need to be more. You can choose to send to fx from bus/group tracks too. You cab put fx tracks into a group too.

Looks like a non sequitur reply to the wrong thread above, FYI.
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2024, 09:12 AM   #6
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 41TWIN View Post
The only thing is I don't always want it to do that cuz I send all tracks to reverb and delay tracks.....
Dunno if this is any help, but for my acoustic drums, I have a top level folder that has everything, including the reverb and delay.

https://cloudimages.soundclick.com/8...05_821481.webp

I use ReaComp on each of the seven drum mics, and adjust dry uncompressed signal with compressed signal in ReaComp. The top level folder track has Presswerk also doing parallel compression, but adding saturation to warm the sound up a bit.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2024, 08:49 PM   #7
41TWIN
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Sending the track outputs to a bus track instead of directly to the master doesn't change anything there.

Looks like a non sequitur reply to the wrong thread above, FYI.
I couldn't tell if what rncwalker was showing is what I need. It doesn't look like it to me.... but I'm kinda lost on this one. So how do I do , or perform the thing you said above? "sending the track outputs to a bus track instead of directly to the master"

glennbo, I have comp'd each track. I only use two. I just felt like trying something different and learning new things. I have just kept it simple for a long time and just do what I know how to do. But I sometimes want to do things differently cuz I like doing things differently every song. To see what I think works better and what doesn't.

About the ReaComp. I don't understand it. It seems like the levels that hit it don't coincide with the level shown on the threshold bar. I haven't figured that one out yet. I just discovered the digital versatile compressor V2. I used it on my vox on a song I'm working on. It seems real transparent. Although it does seem to lean towards bright in tone. I typically use the 1175 or the Fairchild on drum tracks. Usually the 1175 is the most effective and simple to use to get the right levels and catch the peaks. Sometimes the Fairchild is lazy at catching peaks. And if you really crank the bias down, it starts to... i don't know, take over and pump and not let things through. I like the sound of it better than the 1175 but it's not easy to use. I keep thinking I should use it with a limiter on top to catch the peaks. The major tom just seems to make everything louder and not catch peaks at all. Not even sure why it's considered a compressor cuz to me it's not compressing.... it's just making louder. Although I guess there is likely some shortening of the dynamic range. I only use it on tracks that are quiet that need some gain. Either that or I just use and EQ with some gain.
41TWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2024, 09:15 PM   #8
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 41TWIN View Post
glennbo, I have comp'd each track. I only use two. I just felt like trying something different and learning new things. I have just kept it simple for a long time and just do what I know how to do. But I sometimes want to do things differently cuz I like doing things differently every song. To see what I think works better and what doesn't.

About the ReaComp. I don't understand it. It seems like the levels that hit it don't coincide with the level shown on the threshold bar. I haven't figured that one out yet.
I guess I was off base. I thought you were trying to mix compressed signal with uncompressed signal, which is why I brought up ReaComp. It has level controls for uncompressed and compressed so you can mix the two within the plugin.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2024, 06:45 AM   #9
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,855
Default

@41TWIN, it sounded like you were asking how to make subgroup/bus routing. Apologies if that's not right and here I am describing something simple and obvious... and not the issue!

Routing in Reaper:
Send from track to another track = use the dropdown send menu in the I/O window
Send from track to the Reaper master = use the on/off master/parent send enable/disable control in the I/O window

The controls are just weirdly different for the send to the master. Probably some fallout from early versions or something.

In a simple example with 2 tracks:
Make a send on each track to a 3rd track. Name the 3rd track "BUS". Make sure the master/parent send enable is unticked on the two tracks! Enable the master/parent send on the BUS track.
Now you can control the balance (ie submix) of the 1st two tracks. You control the level of that mix to the master with the BUS track.

It occurs to me that you might be programming MIDI drums and are asking how to combine two MIDI streams to a single drum module? But the above is how to make and use groups/buses if you didn't know. This is a pretty standard way to use a mixing board, FYI.
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2024, 09:00 PM   #10
41TWIN
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 550
Default

I think what you said is what I want to do...(thank you serr, lol sounds like thank you sir) but I gotta make sure I know which buttons are the enabling and disabling of the master / parent send. Cuz that's the one I haven't seen yet. But I wasn't looking for it cuz I didn't know what to look for.

I'm pretty sure what you explained to do is exactly what I want to try. Two tracks of acoustic drums (not midi) sent to a bus track. The bus track is the only one that I want sent to the master bus. So far the only thing I've done is bolstered the two tracks with a 3rd send track. (which also works pretty decent to help fatten up the drum sound) But what I'd like to do is just take the two tracks, be able to mix them and send them to a bus track to comp with one compressor, and that gets sent to the master bus. Not all 3. It sounds like your instructions are what I'm looking for. I will try this soon and try to find it in the send info pop up box when you choose to send. I'm not sure where else it would be.

It may be a fools errand cuz sometimes two tracks of drums don't seem like enough and going down to one might be even worse... But we will see. It might also sound right if the right mix on each track is done.... Or the right playing. LOL.

Maybe I used the wrong terminology in my thread title? I thought that explained what I was wanting to do... But I'm still learning the lingo. Only after 4 years of doing this... LOL.
41TWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2024, 09:04 PM   #11
41TWIN
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I guess I was off base. I thought you were trying to mix compressed signal with uncompressed signal, which is why I brought up ReaComp. It has level controls for uncompressed and compressed so you can mix the two within the plugin.
I'll be honest, I've not been a huge fan of parallel compression on just about anything. I've done it a few times but.... Even my MXR Dyna comp Bass pedal doesn't sit well with me when I try to add in the dry. I mean, like I've said, I've done it a few times but mostly it doesn't sound right to me. I'm probably doing it wrong or too much dry. IDK.
41TWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2024, 10:40 PM   #12
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 41TWIN View Post
I'll be honest, I've not been a huge fan of parallel compression on just about anything. I've done it a few times but.... Even my MXR Dyna comp Bass pedal doesn't sit well with me when I try to add in the dry. I mean, like I've said, I've done it a few times but mostly it doesn't sound right to me. I'm probably doing it wrong or too much dry. IDK.
I use parallel compression to suck the oomph out of things like my acoustic toms so they have better definition in the mix as to what is being played on them.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2024, 08:37 PM   #13
41TWIN
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 550
Default

You mean like overtones? Or you want to keep them fat but down further in the mix. Instead of just lowering volume which might lower the fullness....
41TWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2024, 09:18 PM   #14
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 41TWIN View Post
You mean like overtones? Or you want to keep them fat but down further in the mix. Instead of just lowering volume which might lower the fullness....
By first setting the uncompressed level only, so the toms can be heard in the mix, but not as loud as they ultimately need to be, you can then bring up the compressed level, and with a fairly long attack time, like 10-12ms, it will reinforce the attack transient, but will have less effect on the sustain portion. It gives toms more definition without making them take up more space in the mix.

The uncompressed side will also help keep the toms present, because no matter how far the compressed side reduces, the uncompressed side creates a floor.

Edit: the second song on my music page, Slinky Walk is using ReaComp for parallel compression on kick, snare and toms. In the guitar solo section there are some quick tom fills, and they don't step on the guitar solo, but they are present and easy to hear the sticking happening.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--

Last edited by Glennbo; 06-17-2024 at 08:29 PM.
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2024, 02:06 AM   #15
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 41TWIN View Post
I think what you said is what I want to do...(thank you serr, lol sounds like thank you sir) but I gotta make sure I know which buttons are the enabling and disabling of the master / parent send. Cuz that's the one I haven't seen yet. But I wasn't looking for it cuz I didn't know what to look for.

I'm pretty sure what you explained to do is exactly what I want to try. Two tracks of acoustic drums (not midi) sent to a bus track. The bus track is the only one that I want sent to the master bus. So far the only thing I've done is bolstered the two tracks with a 3rd send track. (which also works pretty decent to help fatten up the drum sound) But what I'd like to do is just take the two tracks, be able to mix them and send them to a bus track to comp with one compressor, and that gets sent to the master bus. Not all 3. It sounds like your instructions are what I'm looking for. I will try this soon and try to find it in the send info pop up box when you choose to send. I'm not sure where else it would be.

It may be a fools errand cuz sometimes two tracks of drums don't seem like enough and going down to one might be even worse... But we will see. It might also sound right if the right mix on each track is done.... Or the right playing. LOL.

Maybe I used the wrong terminology in my thread title? I thought that explained what I was wanting to do... But I'm still learning the lingo. Only after 4 years of doing this... LOL.
It's not a fool's errand, I do it all the time. I'll have a drum bus folder, but in that folder I'll have the kic drum mic's sent to a bus, the snare mic's and the toms each to their own bus. This is mainly for compression, because I want all the mic's on each kit piece following the same compression envelope.

To disable master/parent send you can select all tracks being sent and alt-click (option-click on Mac) the routing button on one of the tracks.
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2024, 10:45 PM   #16
41TWIN
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 550
Default

I'm gonna be recording some drums for a collab soon. I will try this technique when practicing and setting up sounds. I'm still not completely sure I get where to click and what, but I have the idea of it. LOL.

I may end up asking for more help if anyone is listening at that time.... Maybe Kenny's got a vid about it...
41TWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2024, 08:48 AM   #17
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,855
Default

I feel like I'm addicted to parallel processing. Feels like cheating!
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2024, 09:36 PM   #18
41TWIN
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 550
Default

I figured out how to do what I wanted, but i didn't like it. I mean the two tracks of uncompressed mics seemed to sound better or fatter than them both summed down to one and compressed. Maybe I was doing the compression wrong. But the best way does seem to send to a track ALONG with the other two. This is what I've been doing for a while . USUALLY I compress each track and use the send to just boost the volume. But this time I did what you said and left the tracks uncompressed and the send track I compressed. Creating parallel compression I guess. It does sound real good so far.

It's like that cheeto's commercial. How do you make 2 tracks sound big. CHEATING! lol That's what your comment reminded me of Serr. LOL. That commercial. Wait, it wasn't cheeto's. It was some other crunchy snack I think.... IN America... Or our Area....
41TWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2024, 09:37 AM   #19
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,855
Default

I'll try to explain my cheating comment.

You need to squeeze the dynamic range of a mix element. The peaks are too loud or parts are too quiet or both. The difficult part is compressing the peaks without creating dullness.

So instead of fighting that...
Compress with abandon to get the "meat" of the sound right. Now mix the original back in to restore the original unmolested peaks and clarity.

Now you have your cake and are eating it too and you didn't have to figure out how to compress that without dullness!

Things don't always work out but when this does, it feels like cheating.
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.