Old 01-31-2006, 12:49 AM   #41
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And Vegas is far too crippled for working with it in front of clients!
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:54 AM   #42
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That is why we went with Sonar and stuck with it.

But, this Reaper could be a cool thing. But if it is going to be a slow work flow because of the layout, then, it is just going to be another "wannabe" app that almost offered ALL the cool features.

Certainly, Sonar has aquired a FAR bigger user base. They must have done SOMETHING right.
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:58 AM   #43
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yes, they started with a midi app, built up a following over more than 10 years, and added some audio to it.

They have been building and building
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:59 AM   #44
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"I have CLIENTS, and I need to work fast. Little things like being able to easily see all things pertinent to the track help speed up work flow."

Isn't this what you said? Then how am I not staying on topic? I don't know about you but I have to regularly insert audio into my projects and if it takes me 3 seconds per audio file I drop into a project, then that's not working very fast now is it? I can probably continue to point out more things that Vegas does faster to speed up workflow, but for some reason you're having a hard time understanding as I said, we can go round and round for days. I've been using Sonar for the past 6 months. I know a lot of areas compared to Vegas where it is uneffecient. Undockable and resizeable Windows come to mind, where if I click outside of that window now it disappears, where I'm constantly having to shuffle windows around or keep going to menu items to bring them back to the front. Sonar is like a Stack of cards thrown on the floor in this aspect, and when I need to reach for the Ace of spades, I have to sort thru the deck and move the other cards out of the way. That's UI ineffecieny, and workflow ineffeciencies....isn't that what we're talking about?
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:00 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
yes, they started with a midi app, built up a following over more than 10 years, and added some audio to it.

They have been building and building
Well, at least they are heading in the right direction! It seems that your beloved Vegas started out as an audio app, then headed towards video.

They have been building and building.

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Old 01-31-2006, 01:01 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonusman
Well, at least they are heading in the right direction! It seems that your beloved Vegas started out as an audio app, then headed towards video.

They have been building and building.

thats rednroll and his friend dannyfreckled egret's fault
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:03 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonusman
Certainly, Sonar has aquired a FAR bigger user base. They must have done SOMETHING right.
Are you trying to make a point here? Cubase and Protools both have a bigger user base than Sonar........I guess they must be doing SOMETHING right over Sonar huh? Hey let's go with those User interfaces. Let's all see a show of hands for the Cubase GUI, it has more users than Sonar!!!

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Old 01-31-2006, 01:08 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
"I have CLIENTS, and I need to work fast. Little things like being able to easily see all things pertinent to the track help speed up work flow."

Isn't this what you said? Then how am I not staying on topic? I don't know about you but I have to regularly insert audio into my projects and if it takes me 3 seconds per audio file I drop into a project, then that's not working very fast now is it? I can probably continue to point out more things that Vegas does faster to speed up workflow, but for some reason you're having a hard time understanding as I said, we can go round and round for days. I've been using Sonar for the past 6 months. I know a lot of areas compared to Vegas where it is uneffecient. Undockable and resizeable Windows come to mind, where if I click outside of that window now it disappears, where I'm constantly having to shuffle windows around or keep going to menu items to bring them back to the front. Sonar is like a Stack of cards thrown on the floor in this aspect, and when I need to reach for the Ace of spades, I have to sort thru the deck and move the other cards out of the way. That's UI ineffecieny, and workflow ineffeciencies....isn't that what we're talking about?
I agree that there are some areas that it is not very efficient! But Vegas? Pooooooolease!!! It is hardly the model of efficiency!

I am NOT, and have NOT EVER said "make Reaper just like Sonar". I am asking that some cool functions and layouts in Sonar be implemented in Reaper.

It is easy to stray from what we are talking about. I am talking about DISPLAYED INFORMATION AND FUCTIONS IN A SPECIFIC AREA OF THIS APPLICATION! You are trying to jump all around the place to make a point. Take THIS topic for what it is and discuss and compare. In THIS AREA, I feel Sonar has a superior work flow!

So, if you want to get back to what we were originally talking about, and compare what is a better layout, instead of trying to bounce around to other subjects that aren't pertinent to the original discussion, cool.

I am interested in helping Reaper become an excellent work flow in EVERY way. In what we were originally talking about, I think Sonar has the better idea over Vegas and the current Reaper layout, IF you add Reaper's ability to do verticle zoom via the scroll wheel.

How can you even argue with that? Do you not understand what I am talking about?
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:09 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
Are you trying to make a point here? Cubase and Protools both have a bigger user base than Sonar........I guess they must be doing SOMETHING right over Sonar huh? Hey let's go with those User interfaces. Let's all see a show of hands for the Cubase GUI, it has more users than Sonar!!!
And again, read my post above this one.
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:10 AM   #50
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Why would you need to see aux sends at a glance?

Why would you need aux sends at all?

Do you know I won a grammy using only the included reverb in vegas?
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:16 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonusman
Well, at least they are heading in the right direction! It seems that your beloved Vegas started out as an audio app, then headed towards video.
No, arguments from me there. Sony definately F'ed things up for us good. But, you might want to keep an eye on Acid 6, when it comes out this March with the Vegas GUI along with all the multitrack, and midi sequencing features, that us long time Vegans have been asking for. Rewire Host and Device capability too BTW as well as the Acid Loop sequencing everyone prefers over anything out there. This will be one that should be good for Sonar....it will definately push Sonar's development forward......wait and see. Aside from that I say "F" Sony, since that's what they've said to us users for quite a long time.....So here's to Reaper kicking their ass, and Cakewalks Ass too!!!!
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:16 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidFreckledEgret
Why would you need to see aux sends at a glance?

Why would you need aux sends at all?

Do you know I won a grammy using only the included reverb in vegas?
Cool, the BBS's first retard!
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:17 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidFreckledEgret
Why would you need to see aux sends at a glance?

Why would you need aux sends at all?

Do you know I won a grammy using only the included reverb in vegas?
LOL!!!!!!! That is Classic Pipe. You're awesome!!! You just made my night.
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:19 AM   #54
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Well good for Acid 6.

But we are here to talk about making Reaper 1.0 a killer release!
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:28 AM   #55
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Quote:
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How can you even argue with that? Do you not understand what I am talking about?
I know exactly what you're talking about. You like Sonar, because it's something you are more familiar with and it's layout makes more sense to you. I on the other hand like Vegas, because I'm more familiar with it and it's layout makes more sense to me. This is really what you're arguing about. I'm giving you the opportunity to make your case, and in my opinion you have failed to do that. Who's right? Who's wrong? Neither of us. I have full confidense, that Justin is listening to ALL of us and weighing out the good vs. the bad and is working his ass off to make all of us happy. That's what I have seen so far, so while I feel you make a lot of valid points with some good feedback, we just don't agree on this one. No biggie. Reaper will continue to move forward either way. The good thing about software....is that what it is "software". Software is flexible enough, where it can be made to make us both happy. That's what I'm talking about.
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:46 AM   #56
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Didn't make my case?

That is a strange response.

IF the Sonar track view box on the left layout is offered in Reaper, I bet $20 right now that you WILL use it!
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:42 AM   #57
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What red is saying is right. You both have strong opinions based on your experiences. Don’t think either of your arguments are going to sway the other.

I see this as very similar to my thoughts about the channel strip stuff. It’s the complexity and function v the clarity and usability debate again.

Do you want a screen full of a million different instantly accessible icons and functions or a much more limited set of functions but a cleaner interface.

I think arguments about where you draw the line on this stuff are going to par for the course.
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:36 AM   #58
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...Gotta say I am a big fan of having the mute and solo buttons on the far right hand side of the track header. When my eye travels from the event pane to the track headers it is naturally drawn to the border between the two. And that is where I think the icons you use the most should be. Rather than sort of in the middle, nestled amongst other less important icons.
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