Old 11-05-2021, 07:45 PM   #1
phoo
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Default Better Audio Editors

I'm a bit distraught, but this has been coming on for years.

I use Adobe Audition 3.0 for audio editing. Have for years. Hate losing it, but it's time, and I'm not happy about it. AA3.0 is an older 32bit app. It is the version Adobe sent to some AA users that does not need to be activated online. It was sent to us when Adobe retired online activations so we could still continue using AA3.0, install it on new machines. It is not a hacked/pirated version - it will work only with our valid serial numbers. Good while it lasted. It still runs and works, but has new major problems with the latest Win10 and latest newer hardware. (was good in Win10 2004, not good in Win10 21H1)

Why switch? Longer Story: I have a new laptop, with the latest Win10, default motherboard Realtek HD Audio, and AA no longer works well with it. The audio device is locked at 48K (16 or 24 bits - latest drivers, older drivers will not install), AA defaults to 44.1K. AA will hang unless a 48K wave file is opened by double-clicking the wave file, because not doing that brings up AA at 44.1K and that's not supported. AA hangs when opening its audio hardware settings - can't set them in the app at all. The audio device has headphones and speakers as separate devices. AA will not switch to headphones no matter what because it doesn't recognize the default Windows device. Device selection is strictly in AA and since it hangs when opening the device settings there is no way to switch to the headphones device. AA is a 32 bit app. It's not happy with the new machine. It was happy with the older laptop and Win10. The difference seems to be the way the audio device is setup in the newer machine, separate headphones and speakers, and locked to 48k. The only solution is to use an external audio device, but that totally defeats the purpose of having a laptop that does it all, with just headphones or built in speakers. Sigh. (no solutions in another post that works other than get an external device)

Anyway, I'm tired of needing to kill AA in Task Manager because "something happened" and it got stuck (like when plugging in headphones or forgetting to unplug them before running the app)

What are y'all using and why?

Any AA 3.0 current/former users? You've made the switch, why, and what did you switch to? Current users, how did you work around the audio device issues on newer Win10, or did you?

Why not continue with the latest Adobe Audition? Because it's a subscription app. Over $20 a month when paying for a year, over $30 a month when paying by the month, or $240 a year when paying for a full year up front. That's more than my budget can handle right now. Anyway, when Adobe went from AA3.0 to the new AA4.5 years ago they ripped out a lot of the features I used at the time. That made 4.5 unusable back then. I no long NEED that functionality so that's not the end all block it used to be. I have no idea what version it's up to, or if it's still close to 3.0...4.5 was not.

I also have Sound Forge (user since 3.0, currently 14.0 - did not upgrade to 15.0). It has similar problems when switching between headphones and speakers, but at least it doesn't hang. It "can" work. I've used SF for a really long time, and it's not a favorite, I actually dislike it quite a bit. It's harder to use then AA by a good bit, and that's not just because I've used AA so long. I actually switched to AA from SF long ago because I found SF to be a pain to do some simple things that were quite simple in AA3.0.

I haven't used Audacity in so long I have no idea what it's like anymore. It was greatly lacking compared to AA and SF last time I used it. Any better? It was pretty buggy back then as well.

I have not use many other wav editors in so many years that it's been like starting over. Anything new to check out?
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Old 11-05-2021, 08:03 PM   #2
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Here's a thread on the Adobe Forum that's in the ballpark of what I'm looking at with AA currently. (don't know if y'all will have access without logging in)

https://community.adobe.com/t5/audit.../td-p/10689017
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Old 11-05-2021, 11:29 PM   #3
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I feel like reaper can do it all but I've never been an Audition user.
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Old 11-06-2021, 12:00 AM   #4
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I wonder... what can be done in Audition that can't be done in Reaper?
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Old 11-06-2021, 02:31 AM   #5
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H, luckily i never used adobe and usually reaper for audio editing.;-)
But in the past I sometimes used
https://acondigital.com/products/aco...-audio-editor/

Greetings, horst
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Old 11-06-2021, 02:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mucknog View Post
I wonder... what can be done in Audition that can't be done in Reaper?
Destructive audio editing?

When I first started using Reaper this and the somewhat limp MIDI editing facilities were the only things that put me off.

It did not take me long to realise the huge advantage of non-destructive audio editing & with the passage of time & efforts by the devs, the MIDI editing is nowadays significantly better.
Still not perfect MIDI editing, but no worse than any of the others these days IMO
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Old 11-06-2021, 02:47 AM   #7
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im using ocenaudio (free)
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Old 11-06-2021, 04:14 AM   #8
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Another free I know about is Wavosaur.
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Old 11-06-2021, 04:42 AM   #9
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I used to use both Wavelab and Sound Forge a lot back in the day. Nowadays I have sometimes used Wavosaur.

Would I need a better commercial option, I would likely get Acon Digital Acoustica. I already have their Equalize and Verberate plugins, high quality stuff right there.
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Old 11-06-2021, 04:43 AM   #10
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Goldwave as an audio tool is very flexible copes with many formats.

https://www.goldwave.com/

An old mate of mine who did audio for stage productions started using it years ago and with lifetime updates is still using it. He switched from Soundforge.
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Old 11-06-2021, 05:20 AM   #11
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As a pure audio waveform editor I find Audacity very good simple to use and free and extendable. I find a few basic things easier to do than on Reaper. There are others of course more or less on a par.

However,.......

Reaper is excellent for many a reason (too much to mention) for doing audio edits (rather than just a few simple waveforms) with its multi channel/track capabilities and a host of standard easily available extras.

Although still not yet having the publicity of some of the 'competition' and taking a bit of time to learn many on this forum use it for basic or comprehensive or professional work at a very high standard. Just as a single example it is used by the BBC in the UK in some circumstances.

Reaper is exceedingly flexible and undergoes continuous improvement unlike some of the offerings that have been commercially tied to particular equipment as it is independent. You can try a full featured version for free, many a great instructional video, purchase is cheap and there are a whole host of experienced/professional users who will help others at all levels at no cost!


........so what is to choose between it and others? I am sure there are things but I am glad I use it even in my limited capacity.
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Old 11-06-2021, 05:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allybye View Post
Just as a single example it is used by the BBC in the UK in some circumstances.
Indeed it is (or was - the reference I usually give is quite old now). However in fairness, it is not for editing as far as I know. Or at least it wasn't when I last looked into it. They used Sadie and Audition if I remember correctly but maybe someone has more recent knowledge.
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Old 11-06-2021, 06:26 PM   #13
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Default I know this sounds like an ad, but.

What am I using and why?

It all depends on what audio edit you're trying to achieve. What Adobe are trying to achieve is lock you into a subscription service that 'services' their corporate debt. As far as Adobe and its bank is concerned, they might as well be selling burgers.

I often use Wavosaur to do quick cropping, normalizing and resampling as it's dedicated to that and easy to learn; I've tried Ocenaudio but it's obtuse UI (and endless micro-updates) is a turnoff. Audacity? Mesolithic.

Reaper does all of it and more, and it's not obtuse. It's not dedicated to audio editing as such, so it takes a bit of non-Adobe thinking to get with its extensive facility. Individual sample editing can be performed with a one-item project and the render dialog, at least.

The other thing about Reaper is how closely you can adapt it to your own workflow, once you're up to speed.
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Old 11-06-2021, 07:11 PM   #14
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I use Audition 3 regularly in Win10 and don't have any trace of any of the problems you mention.
Audition does not default to 44.1k sampling rate, it opens with the sampling rate previously used.
I have RME, Scarlett and Presonus sound interfaces, all with ASIO drivers and all work perfectly in AA3 at any sampling rate; I suspect that the Realtek interface is the problem.

I have been using Cool Edit / Audition since 1996 and often prefer it to Reaper (for waveform editing as opposed to multitracking), partly because I'm familiar with it, but in this role it does a few things Reaper doesn't, some things better than Reaper, and some things with a better workflow (for me) especially when destructively editing (pretty often).

There are alternatives but if you already have pre-subscription Audition then stick with it.
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Old 11-06-2021, 08:04 PM   #15
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This is not a poke, I am seriously curious...
We all obviously use Reaper to some degree, that's why we are on this forum. So if we already are learning Reaper and all of the more complex intricacies, why would we use anything else for the simpler things? I have tried many of the mentioned editors, and every time I think "I can already do this on reaper, and know how to do it quickly".
My question isn't "What other editors are people using?", but instead
"Why are you not using Reaper for these tasks?"
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Old 11-06-2021, 09:08 PM   #16
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The thing for me is this
I work with Reaper most of the time.
Mixbus 32c the rest.

The only thing I ever have hopes about is
being able to draw in a line to fix wave files
when a toxic blip happens something that in pro tools
you could do.
Why not just download Reaper and play with it?

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Old 11-06-2021, 11:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder View Post
The only thing I ever have hopes about is
being able to draw in a line to fix wave files
when a toxic blip happens something that in pro tools
you could do…
https://soundcloud.com/steve-maitland-1
Like this?
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....=Sample+editor
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Old 11-07-2021, 10:36 AM   #18
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Wow I am way behind.... thank you Lexaproductions.
I have no idea how to apply this/put it into Reaper program however If I read the manual I guess I may find out!
Thanks again

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Old 11-07-2021, 02:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
This is not a poke, I am seriously curious...
We all obviously use Reaper to some degree, that's why we are on this forum. So if we already are learning Reaper and all of the more complex intricacies, why would we use anything else for the simpler things? I have tried many of the mentioned editors, and every time I think "I can already do this on reaper, and know how to do it quickly".
My question isn't "What other editors are people using?", but instead
"Why are you not using Reaper for these tasks?"
Short answer: I use Reaper as much as possible, leaving very little for Audition, but for some things Audition is just better/faster, sometimes it's more to do with my familiarity with Audition, but not all the time. Note that I would not use a subscription version of Audition.

Longer: Some things that come to mind quickly:

Scientific filters - do exactly what real circuits do.

Waveform generators - can quickly create files of any size containing various flavours of noise, sine, square, triangular, sweep etc. Never felt the need to search for sig gen apps.

Noise/click reduction - Even though I have iZotope RX I still often use Audition when processing vinyl etc. The Fill Single Click Now button is definitely a thing here.

Edit sample directly - move up/down, enter value, interpolate.

I sometimes want to do destructive editing (on a copy of course) and find that to be faster and more intuitive than Reaper.

While I'm sure there are other ways to do all of the above, I already have Audition and like it so am sticking with it.

Having said all that, most of what I used to do in Audition I now do in Reaper.
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Old 11-07-2021, 04:21 PM   #20
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With some luck you can try to find an old copy of Cool Edit Pro.
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Old 11-07-2021, 04:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder View Post
Wow I am way behind.... thank you Lexaproductions.
I have no idea how to apply this/put it into Reaper program however If I read the manual I guess I may find out!
Thanks again

Grinder
You download the script and save it in your resources folder in the script folder.
You open the action list and choose New action/Load action
Give it a key command and that’s it.
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Old 11-07-2021, 05:02 PM   #22
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I use WaveLab Pro as my mastering DAW and audio editor, though I still do a lot of repair work using RX.

You might try WaveLab Elements -- it has a greatly reduced feature set, but the Audio Editor there may be enough for your purposes.
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Old 11-07-2021, 06:16 PM   #23
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Awesome Lexaproductions
I have printed that out.
I failed to get that info off two videos on UTUBE
unfortunately it does my head in thanks for the simple instruction.

Thanks
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Old 11-07-2021, 06:22 PM   #24
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Still using Audition 3 here on Windows 10 for some of the things that Alanofoz mentions. The click and pop reduction is much more transparent than that on RX8 and the "Fill Single Click Now" feature is invaluable. I also find it handy to be able to change the sample rate in the header of the file which I don't think is possible in Reaper.

However, my default editor is now RX8 as I find myself using it more and more often.
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Old 11-07-2021, 07:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mucknog View Post
I wonder... what can be done in Audition that can't be done in Reaper?
There are a couple things.
The 'click/pop and crackle remover', if you digitize old vinyl.
The analysis function, which gives you spectrum and statistics on a time selection.

That's about it.

There is a paradigm shift in how you work.

Reaper does stuff realtime, using plugins and virtual (nondestructive) edits, providing instantaneous undo.

AA "batch processes" audio one step at a time, where an 'undo' actually dumps the most recent step and reloads the file from the undo cache (a much more time consuming way to work).
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:32 AM   #26
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Using AA3.0 in Win10 used to work fine, and does on all machines here and in the studio, except it will work on the new laptop for reasons mentioned in the original post. AA is not opening with the sample rate of the previous project. It's reverting to 44.1K no matter what, with the only way to get it to open at anything other that 44.1K to double click a WAV file that's a 48K format. This is almost acceptable, but it will still only connect to the crappy built-in speakers. Anything else is a hang in the app. This is new to the new laptop and there is no workaround yet, except to use an external audio device. The issue is Realtek Drivers and Microsoft thinking the way it is, is acceptable. It is not.

Why not use Reaper for all thing WAV editing? The main reason is that Reaper isn't a WAV editor. It has a lot of editing built in and is great at what it does, but many have been listed already that are strictly the realm of dedicated audio editors. MANY editors have functionality that Reaper lacks in this department. Heck, much of these things are aren't suited for the multichannel, recording, mixing, steps, but very specifically can be done in a dedicated editor with a few clicks. Different tools for different purposes. There's no need to debate this. It's a personal preference at least, and necessity at most.

I've signed up for the AA subscription. No happy, but it will have to do. I will still use AA3.0 on the other machines.

The old laptop that died is being repaired. It will be interesting to see what new audio problems arise when when it gets the latest Win10, and no longer has Win10 2004 version.
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Old 11-24-2021, 12:51 PM   #27
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I recently came across this

https://ivosight.com/soundop/

I have not used it but it looks very much like Audition to me. I'd say too much, an Audition clone.
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