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01-04-2020, 01:11 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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Stuck MIDI notes
Another plugin with stuck note issue in Reaper 6 : Zebra 2.5
OSX El Capitan.
I'm fed up with this issue.
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02-01-2020, 01:18 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 167
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Same here
For me it is not related to Zebra, happens with Arturia Fragments but also Kontakt.
Happens in current Reaper 6.03, has been happening with 5.X as well.
0sx 10.14.6
Different VST versions, I also run another machine with 10.15, same issues.
Sometimes happens, sometimes doesnt.
Tried all the tricks in other threads on this forum.
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02-01-2020, 01:24 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 569
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Happens randomly for me as well.
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MacBook Pro; Late 2016, 16 GB
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02-01-2020, 02:41 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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I also have stuck notes sometimes shortly after arming a track for the first time and playing notes on my MIDI keyboard. After that it's ok most of the time (REAPER 6.03/x64 + Surge 1.6.4.1)
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02-02-2020, 05:14 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 167
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Are developers aware of these issues? For anyone working on complex midi arrangements this is extremely frustrating....
Can looking into this be a priority for the next update?
It makes Reaper almost unusable for music involving MIDI/VSTis.
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02-02-2020, 07:52 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,883
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I reported a similar issue not so long ago:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=230632
Flush Fx on stop in prefrences/playback does help a bit but but doesnt completely solve the issue. My most problematic vsti is u-he Hive and also others
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Win11, R 64bit
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02-02-2020, 11:18 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadada
Are developers aware of these issues? For anyone working on complex midi arrangements this is extremely frustrating....
Can looking into this be a priority for the next update?
It makes Reaper almost unusable for music involving MIDI/VSTis.
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reported many times !
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02-02-2020, 11:19 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadada
For me it is not related to Zebra, happens with Arturia Fragments but also Kontakt.
Happens in current Reaper 6.03, has been happening with 5.X as well.
0sx 10.14.6
Different VST versions, I also run another machine with 10.15, same issues.
Sometimes happens, sometimes doesnt.
Tried all the tricks in other threads on this forum.
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do you mean Arturia Pigment ?
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02-02-2020, 11:37 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadada
Are developers aware of these issues? For anyone working on complex midi arrangements this is extremely frustrating....
Can looking into this be a priority for the next update?
It makes Reaper almost unusable for music involving MIDI/VSTis.
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Just FYI, I had (a long time ago) stuck notes with malformed MIDI files, in particular when several MIDI events were overlapping, aka when, on the same note, there was a MIDI event that was starting when the previous one wasn't finished.
Nothing prevents MIDI files to contain overlapping events. In particular, I've had files downloaded from popular sites that had them and these files would lead to stuck notes (sometimes, one MIDI event could hide completely another one, leading to the sequence ON ON OFF OFF; in the MIDI editor, though, you see only one note, as the other one is hidden under it). Once I removed the overlapping notes, it solved the issue in my case.
According to a post I read, Reaper automatically merges overlapping events. I don't know if this is true. If it is, either it doesn't do a good work at it, or it is relatively new, because when I had the problem, it clearly wasn't doing it. I don't know if Reaper also deals with the case ON ON OFF OFF. What I've read though leads me to think that overlapping events is a widespread problem that isn't unique to Reaper, and that some VSTi don't deal correctly with overlapping events too. The MIDI spec is unclear what to do in that case, so implementers are left guessing what to do in those cases, so it's best to avoid overlapping events altogether.
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=517522
Interestingly, I've read in the Cakewalk forum that "While that is true about Note ON/OFF, Sonar internally does not store Notes that way. It stores "Note + duration" instead. That way it is technically impossible copy "Note ON" separately."
That is a good way to solve the stuck notes issue, but it means Sonar has to analyze the entire MIDI file before playing it (which shouldn't be too much of a problem), and also it cannot do that whith live recording since you don't know in advance the duration of a note while recording it.
Last edited by lolilol1975; 02-03-2020 at 12:00 AM.
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02-03-2020, 12:06 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,739
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02-03-2020, 04:22 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dupont
do you mean Arturia Pigment ?
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Sorry, yes that is one candidate but it happens with many others.
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02-12-2020, 03:08 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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I see a CC64 Hold Pedal message being sent in my case. Weird, since I don't have any hold pedals connected. Maybe my MIDI keyboard is faulty ...
Last edited by Dstruct; 02-12-2020 at 03:18 AM.
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02-27-2020, 10:52 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 425
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Bump, I still keep getting this with multiple plugins and have no idea what is causing it. It is incredibly frustrating. I only get this bug in REAPER, nothing else does this.
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02-28-2020, 01:20 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,883
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Still having issues here also. But now with the latest releases even the note off command (F3) doesnt stop the stuck notes.(specially with Hive and Pigments). Still erratic(not always) when I move notes ,change the tempo, preview MIDI from Media explorer.
The only option to stop them is to put vsti offline or restart.
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Win11, R 64bit
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02-28-2020, 06:06 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janne83
Still having issues here also. But now with the latest releases even the note off command (F3) doesnt stop the stuck notes.(specially with Hive and Pigments). Still erratic(not always) when I move notes ,change the tempo, preview MIDI from Media explorer.
The only option to stop them is to put vsti offline or restart.
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Same here, the only way I can manage to get rid of it with certain plugins is setting them offline and online or restarting.
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02-28-2020, 06:50 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Same here:
Stuck notes with many, and i mean:many, thirdparty instrument plugins.
All Notes OFF command doesn't work for me fullproof.
In the more than 10 years i am using Reaper, this big issue has never been solved in my case.
The many other DAW's i use totally don't suffer from notes hanging with the same instrument plugins.
Grrrrr.....
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02-29-2020, 10:43 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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Issue still here and happened again this morning with Tyrell N6, Spire and Zebra.
F3 and stop playback does not stop the stuck note any more.
Sometimes the note stops playing when I hit a key on the midi keyboard, I think the key that made the note stuck at first.
Frustrating.
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02-29-2020, 11:59 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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I hear ya.
The very same in my situation.
Reaper is amazing but the note hang issue i experience for so much years now makes me really sad and frustrated.
Logic, Live, Studio One, Bitwig: in all these DAW's i do not suffer from any note hanging when using many thirdparty instrument plugins, while these same plugins all give note hangs in Reaper.
Unbelievable..
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02-29-2020, 12:45 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Québec
Posts: 484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dupont
Sometimes the note stops playing when I hit a key on the midi keyboard, I think the key that made the note stuck at first.
Frustrating.
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Same here, I have to hit all keys until I find the stuck key.
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02-29-2020, 01:09 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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That's Annoying 10.0.
#pity
Cockos should make fixing this everlasting note hang problem their top priority number 1.
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03-01-2020, 04:49 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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I think it's time Cockos tell us more about this issue.
Are they searching for a fix ? When ? Must we deal with this issue for ever because no fixes can be found ?
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03-01-2020, 09:03 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 425
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Justin or Schwa, if you are reading this thread we would appreciate some guidance on how to troubleshoot/identify problems with this. I have identified a few specific situations where this happens. But I am not sure if I should create a seperate thread where we all hunt down cases that causes this or should we just dump them here?
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03-04-2020, 02:28 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,883
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A few more observations:
-VST3 versions cause more stuck notes and more oftenly- if i change tempo mid playback every time.
- VST3 version doesnt react to All notes off (F3), VST2 does
-happens with long notes
- when copying and moving midi items, happens more often when I use Take FX on midi items- I use arpeggiators that way
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Win11, R 64bit
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03-07-2020, 05:59 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janne83
A few more observations:
-VST3 versions cause more stuck notes and more oftenly- if i change tempo mid playback every time.
- VST3 version doesnt react to All notes off (F3), VST2 does
-happens with long notes
- when copying and moving midi items, happens more often when I use Take FX on midi items- I use arpeggiators that way
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Same over here, modifying MIDI items or MIDI data during playback seems to cause it very reliably.
Here is an example:
* Mute MIDI item while the project is in playback
* Undo it during playback when the playhead is over a note
Another example:
* Split MIDI item during playback
* Undo it during playback when the playhead is over a note
Here is one more:
* Open MIDI editor for a MIDI item
* Draw a note right as the playhead goes over it
I also get it sometimes if I draw in notes during playback unrelated to the issue above but im not sure what causes it.
In my case I straight up can't use arpeggiators reliably, because it gives me stuck notes, take FX or not.
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03-07-2020, 07:31 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Thank you for these observations regarding hanging notes.
Are you on Windows or OSX ?
Cause i notice, by having done alot of posts-reading in the community, that
OSX users suffer way more from note hang issues than Windows users.
I truly hope Cockos has its eyes on this important thread..
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03-07-2020, 11:57 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
Are you on Windows or OSX ?
Cause i notice, by having done alot of posts-reading in the community, that
OSX users suffer way more from note hang issues than Windows users.
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On Windows 10 here, I would guess it is just related how REAPER juggles note on/off messages.
Quote:
I truly hope Cockos has its eyes on this important thread..
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Hopefully, I still run into this issue every single time I use REAPER.
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03-08-2020, 01:43 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 42
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I have written in another similar thread. I very often (almost always) had this problem with u-he's Diva in Windows. Than I changed some preferences and the problem is completely gone.
MIDI devices - Reset by/all - all checked (4 checkboxes)
Playback - Flush FX on stop + Send MIDI off when unarming
VST - uncheck "Don't send note-offs on stop".
Maybe it will help you too.
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03-08-2020, 01:47 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirner
I have written in another similar thread. I very often (almost always) had this problem with u-he's Diva in Windows. Than I changed some preferences and the problem is completely gone.
MIDI devices - Reset by/all - all checked (4 checkboxes)
Playback - Flush FX on stop + Send MIDI off when unarming
VST - uncheck "Don't send note-offs on stop".
Maybe it will help you too.
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Unfortunately none of these solve the issue with a lot of plugins.
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03-09-2020, 04:23 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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this morning two Threads about stuck notes in the bugs report forum, new features still going on the pre-release forum but no news about this bug !
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03-11-2020, 08:45 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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A question:
Stuck notes is an issue with every sequencer & DAW I have used in decades.
Always on a windows machine fro XP on up but also previously an Amiga.
So I am left wondering if it was something I was doing in my MIDI programming or an innate MIDI problem.
In every case I had played in or moused in the MIDI part, only to find that on playback there were extended notes. Examining the MIDI parts, the notes had actually been lengthened, in a lot of cases extremely so.
My workaround in Bars n Pipes Pro was to select all the changed notes & reduce their length to a 16th or an 8th in bulk & then reset the individual lengths I required.
Summing up, that was/is my experience, but I have read so many posts on here and elsewhere with different symptoms and different workflows that I am getting more and more convinced that this isn`t just one problem.
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Ici on parles Franglais
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03-12-2020, 02:23 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
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Ed, on my mac, stuck notes happens nore frequently with UHE plugins but also with other.
With other DAWS, Logic 10, Live 10 and Studion one 4, no stuck notes even with UHE.
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03-12-2020, 03:02 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,883
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Same here. Only happens in Reaper. Cubase 10.5 and ableton 10 work without stuck notes with the same presets and mid. Im on WIn 10 1909
__________________
Win11, R 64bit
Last edited by Janne83; 03-12-2020 at 03:17 AM.
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03-12-2020, 05:46 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Would be nice to post that MIDI file then.
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03-12-2020, 06:42 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Québec
Posts: 484
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Test with synth1
1- Put a long note in ME
2- place cursor just before the note
3- hit play
4- re-hit play (or spacebar) anywhere in the middle of the note.
Note is stuck
Last edited by STOP; 03-12-2020 at 06:51 AM.
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03-12-2020, 07:35 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Would be nice to post that MIDI file then.
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its randomly any created midi item that contains longer notes. When you try to copy this item during playbays sooner or later a note gets stuck (happens when the draged item pases the moving playback cursor), also when changing tempo during playback or exporting a MIDI file during playback. I cand do the same actions in CUbase and Live without problem.
If its VST3i the Notes off command (F3) doesnt work, if its VSTi it does.
Happens mostly with uhe stuff, but also Pigments and MAssiveX - all latest legit versions. Ive experimented with the flush fx on stop, reset cc and other playback options to no avail.
__________________
Win11, R 64bit
Last edited by Janne83; 03-12-2020 at 07:41 AM.
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03-12-2020, 12:27 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 919
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here it happens even with no midi clip.
Play and tweak plugin parameters in loop mode and randomly gets stuck notes.
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03-12-2020, 12:51 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Exactly my very same experience...
In my experience/situation, Loop mode being active (thus,Repeat = ON) makes
the note hang issue bigger.
OSX user.
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03-19-2020, 04:19 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Québec
Posts: 484
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Solve most of the VST3 stuck notes if I add ReaControlMIDI on the midi tracks.
Thanks to Joffo78 for the hint. Post#2
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=232988
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03-19-2020, 06:37 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Mmmm.. interesting, i have to test that.
Thx for the tip !
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