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Old 04-08-2020, 03:43 PM   #1
future fields
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Default Looking for "analog sounding" zero latency limiter for per track usage

Looking for an "analog sounding" zero latency limiter for per track usage

Something that gradually breaks up in an "analog way" as it approaches 0dBFS

I would like to have this at the end of every channel, right after my channel strip plugin so that I can "drive the signal" into it with the channel strip plugin output to get more limiting and distortion
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Old 04-08-2020, 04:08 PM   #2
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Limiter usually implies dynamic processing. Is that what you want or more of a soft-knee distortion (like tape saturation)?
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Old 04-08-2020, 05:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Looking for an "analog sounding" zero latency limiter for per track usage
Maybe someone else can help with that.


Quote:
Something that gradually breaks up in an "analog way" as it approaches 0dBFS
Typically, an analog limiter doesn't "break up". It should "round over" the peaks. Of course if you over-drive it really hard you can get close to clipping.


If you want a harsher sound you can look for a clipping effect. With analog you can get hard-clipping (like when you overdrive an ADC or DAC) or you can get softer clipping similar to limiting, depending on the circuit design.


Tape saturation has an additional feature that the NAB equalization further softens the harmonics.
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Old 04-08-2020, 05:44 PM   #4
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I would definitely start with the included JS plugs, and then have a look at Chris's Airwindows inventions.

Just keep in the back of your mind that you will end up use too much :-)
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Old 04-12-2020, 10:50 PM   #5
future fields
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErBird View Post
Limiter usually implies dynamic processing. Is that what you want or more of a soft-knee distortion (like tape saturation)?
Porbably more like saturation

I'm looking for something that clips but in a more analog sounding way than hard clipping

Like how you can drive channels in an analog board, you can drive it to clip just a little to put a little hair on the sound
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:34 PM   #6
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I'm working on one right now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNFuvZv9444
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:45 AM   #7
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Something like Sonimus Satson?
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future fields View Post
Porbably more like saturation

I'm looking for something that clips but in a more analog sounding way than hard clipping

Like how you can drive channels in an analog board, you can drive it to clip just a little to put a little hair on the sound
In Ableton Live there is "Soft Clip" option in the end of Glue Compressor and some other plugins.
And there is also Saturator plugin with various curve types like "Analog Clip", "Soft Sine", etc.
Those are probably something like what you are looking for.
I would recommend the "Soft Clip".

You can replicate the same processing in Reaper using free MeldaProduction plugins.
The "Soft Clip" can be done using MWaveShaper.
And the different Saturation curve types can be done using MSaturator.
I have created presets for those plugins to replicate the Ableton Live sound as close as possible. See attached Reaper preset files.

Alternatively, for the Saturation curves, you could try to use Saike's Squashman JS plugin but that might be less transparent than what you are looking for and the CPU load would be significantly higher than with MeldaProduction plugins.


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File Type: ini vst-MWaveShaper.ini (1.0 KB, 160 views)
File Type: ini vst-MSaturator.ini (4.4 KB, 129 views)
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:26 AM   #9
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Not really zero latency, but I love U-he's Presswerk for it's saturation, which has several fader controls to add some arbitrarily for warmth, and/or to track dynamics. There is also an independent soft clip control. It's quick enough latency wise that I play through it when recoding and I use on many many tracks.

There's a free fully functioning demo that just makes static every couple minutes until you buy it, and it has friendly non-invasive serial number and key code authorization.

https://u-he.com/products/presswerk/
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:57 AM   #10
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Forgive my Ignorance but..
If Grit/Distortion and Roundness is what you're looking for,
¿Why not use proper Compressors, or a Master Compressor set to a very Hot level?

I've been on the biz for 12 years, and I still haven't used a Limiter (or clipped the signal) a single time,
I master from -17 to -14 LUFS and that's good for what I do..

But yeah, I work ITB mostly on Orchestral/Acoustic music soundtracks,
and perhaps some Rock/Fussion now and then..
.

Last edited by ernzo; 04-13-2020 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 04-13-2020, 11:16 AM   #11
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I agree with ernzo. If you want a kind of distortion, you can add it at any level. It'll be clipping, and you'll be driving signal into it to make it clip, pretty much the way you expect a "limiter" to distort. So the difference is academic. If you restrict your searches for "limiters" specifically you'll miss out on a lot of possibilities.

To second tdc's recommendation for Airwindows plugins, try his new "Distortion" plugin. I'd also recommend Cider, Calibre, Luxor, Neverland, Apicolypse, BlockParty.

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Old 04-13-2020, 12:43 PM   #12
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My toes curl at the thought of limiting individual tracks. However, I'll play: Stillwell Event Horizon... I think that there's even a free version in JS form included with Reaper.

I agree with others, softclipping may be a good option for you.
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Old 04-13-2020, 03:11 PM   #13
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Quick comparison:

JS: Event Horizon Limiter/Clipper [Stillwell], factory defaults
JS: Event Horizon Clipper [Stillwell], factory defaults
VST: MWaveShaper (MeldaProduction), Glue soft clip preset



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Old 04-13-2020, 03:20 PM   #14
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GVST's "Gclip" is also nice.
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Old 04-13-2020, 04:26 PM   #15
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it sounds like you want a tape sim to me. Or even Waves NLS??? It is analog console emulation with a drive knob. I wouldn't be surprised if that is what you really want.
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Old 04-13-2020, 04:31 PM   #16
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ReaComp. All time constants (precomp, attack, release, rms) at 0, ratio at infinity, knee around 6.
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
ReaComp. All time constants (precomp, attack, release, rms) at 0, ratio at infinity, knee around 6.
Meh. ReaComp is poor saturator.
It's stereo-linked, so even with the time constants zeroed, it doesn't behave like a static waveshaper.
The knee is pretty bad. It's closer to piecewise linear than it is a true soft knee. The difference is audible.

Knee Comparison (6 dB)
Blue: A Hard knee
Green: A properly-done soft knee
Red: ReaComp's previous "weird knee" (It explodes above 6 dB)
White: ReaComp's "fixed" knee (lame)

Last edited by ErBird; 04-13-2020 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 04-13-2020, 06:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
In Ableton Live there is "Soft Clip" option in the end of Glue Compressor and some other plugins.

Thats exactly what im looking for, basically the clipper section of The Glue but in a standalone free plugin

(im surprised there arent many free zero latency soft clippers? seems like itd be a lot easier to make than for example a reverb, but there are tons of free reverbs)
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Old 04-13-2020, 09:19 PM   #19
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GVST Gclip is zero latency and you can adjust the roundness of the curve. Just sayin'.
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Old 04-14-2020, 08:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
GVST Gclip is zero latency and you can adjust the roundness of the curve. Just sayin'.
Thanks for recommending this. GVST GClip has a nice user friendly GUI. I tried to replicate the soft clip curve of Ableton's Glue Compressor in Gclip.
The best settings were:
Gain = 0.0 dB
Clip = 94%
Softness = 11%

I couldn't get as accurate "Glue soft clip" shape as in MWaveShaper but the difference is probably negligible in practical use cases.
MWaveShaper is better if you need more detailed control of the curve shape but otherwise GClip wins because it's easier to use.

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Old 04-14-2020, 12:56 PM   #21
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Glad to help! I remember when all the "clipper rage" was happening some years ago, people getting super picky about clippers. I loaded Gclip and compared them, and thought "I don't understand...Gclip is free, it has been around for years, and it does the same thing..." Well, close enough for me anyway.
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Old 04-15-2020, 08:35 AM   #22
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I would encourage the OP to consider using subgroups and saturation plugins. Group your instruments like gtrs, keys, drums in separate busses. This is more like an analogue workflow. You'll find you'll get much more even chunk on all your tracks. It's called "mixing" for a reason.

I think you're talking about a Vari-mu compressor/limiter. I would be more inclined

I would recommend Klanghelm MJUC or DDMF Magic Death Eye.

https://klanghelm.com/contents/products/MJUC/MJUC.php

https://ddmf.eu/magicdeatheye/
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Old 04-15-2020, 01:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
I would encourage the OP to consider using subgroups and saturation plugins. Group your instruments like gtrs, keys, drums in separate busses. This is more like an analogue workflow. You'll find you'll get much more even chunk on all your tracks. It's called "mixing" for a reason.

I think you're talking about a Vari-mu compressor/limiter. I would be more inclined

I would recommend Klanghelm MJUC or DDMF Magic Death Eye.

https://klanghelm.com/contents/products/MJUC/MJUC.php

https://ddmf.eu/magicdeatheye/
FYI _ UnitedPlugins - Royal Compressor now on sale at Euro 52 (-60%) and Free Demo.

https://unitedplugins.com/RoyalCompressor/

AND ___

Pulsar Audio - Mu @ $69 _ Plugin Boutique (-54%) Trial version as well.

https://www.pluginboutique.com/produ...=5b990c8472e56

Last edited by sostenuto; 04-15-2020 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 04-15-2020, 03:11 PM   #24
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Glad to help! I remember when all the "clipper rage" was happening some years ago, people getting super picky about clippers. I loaded Gclip and compared them, and thought "I don't understand...Gclip is free, it has been around for years, and it does the same thing..." Well, close enough for me anyway.
GClip is still one of the best around.
The UI is good and it implements the soft-knee equation properly.
(Many plugins don't get the math right)

It's quadratic-based:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/oq0lm4b7xi


I'm curious what you guys think about different waveshaping equations.
In some cases, like on a full mix, it's hard to tell the difference between them.
On more pure-toned signals, the difference in the way they create harmonics becomes apparent.

I made a JS that lets you compare some of the most popular ones.

Modes:
Tanh is simply y = tanh(x).
This is well-regarded as tape-like saturation.
Sine (Clamped) uses y = sin(max(min(x,pi/2),-pi/2))
Identical to JS:Saturation (@ 100%). At settings below 100%, the JS leads to hard-clipping. This avoids that error.
Variable Knee
Identical to GClip.

I could add others if anyone likes this idea.



Code removed pending update (or VST) (or more interest)

Last edited by ErBird; 04-22-2020 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 04-15-2020, 03:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I made a JS that lets you compare some of the most popular ones.

Too cool.
I regret the fact that I studied business management instead of computer science.
I'm guessing it would be super simple to add an output gain to allow for volume matched, A/B comparisons.
Cheers!

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Old 04-16-2020, 07:20 AM   #26
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Well this turned out to be a cool thread.

Also keep in mind that any compressor that goes to 10:1 or more, with a fast attack time is getting into limiter territory.

Also, you could try combining a "clean" limiter ( this guy? http://www.yohng.com/software/w1limit.html )with a saturation plugin. That way you can get your limiting and combine it with whichever flavor of saturation is appropriate. This would be my vote.

Also, I love Event Horizon and gclip.
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:47 PM   #27
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I'm guessing it would be super simple to add an output gain to allow for volume matched, A/B comparisons.
It would be pretty easy. If I wasn't smoothing out slider changes, super easy. I could add a slider or show you how.

But, you actually made me rethink the controls. I'm working on something I think is more intuitive and easier to "volume match" and gauge before-and-after.

Would you be willing to try it in a couple days?

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Too cool.
I regret the fact that I studied business management instead of computer science.
I feel you. I took some programming in college, but mostly I've learned to code on my own.
Luckily I have a strong math background and a ravenous passion for it.

JS is an amazing place to learn/experiment. Try it, it's fun.
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:02 PM   #28
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I'd definitely want to give your next creation a try, though I can't claim to be the most qualified tester.
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Old 04-16-2020, 07:48 PM   #29
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Not wanting to interrupt the awesomeness taking place... just a quick note: For individual tracks looking to use "analog limiters" then you'd probably want 1176. And my fav 1176 style plugin is the JS 1136.. awesome. Search youtube for a tutorial how to use it, but its one of my favorite plugins out there. ReaComp is tricky to dial, 1136 is always great at default 4:1 .. just adjust the ratio to 20:1 when needed and occasionally the tilt EQ.
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Old 04-17-2020, 01:30 AM   #30
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I’m willing to test too!
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Old 04-17-2020, 11:55 AM   #31
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Thx, guys.

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I can't claim to be the most qualified tester.
IDC. I just appreciate that you'll give it a spin.

Working on huge changes to this little JS!
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Old 04-17-2020, 12:23 PM   #32
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Cool. I expect it will be well received.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErBird View Post
GClip is still one of the best around.
The UI is good and it implements the soft-knee equation properly.
(Many plugins don't get the math right)

...

Code removed pending update (or VST) (or more interest)
This thing deserves its own post, I really like graphic showing where the input signal is mapped on the curve. Bring back the code!
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:59 PM   #34
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... And my fav 1176 style plugin is the JS 1136.. awesome.
NP1136, a great compressor/limiter.

Another which is amazing, and free...but Linux only: LSP Limiter Stereo. LSP plugins are some which make me a bit sorry for Windows and Mac users, for once.
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:18 AM   #35
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Code removed pending update (or VST) (or more interest)

I'm confident that there would be a LOT more interest if, instead of being buried in THIS thread, there was a new thread with a title along the lines of "World's Best Free Tape Sim".
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:57 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dug dog View Post
I'm confident that there would be a LOT more interest if, instead of being buried in THIS thread, there was a new thread with a title along the lines of "World's Best Free Tape Sim".
Thanks, guys. There will be a thread, I assure you.
Currently working out better gfx, making my own meters, still debating the control scheme, etc.
It's gotta be good and intuitive if I'm going to share it widely.
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:59 AM   #37
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Glad to hear it!
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Old 04-26-2020, 11:56 AM   #38
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Please post here when it's ready as well. Ready to beta test whenever you are!
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Old 02-19-2022, 06:37 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErBird View Post

I could add others if anyone likes this idea.



Code removed pending update (or VST) (or more interest)
I was just looking for something exactly like this. Any chance we can try it soon? Are you still working on it, @ErBird?
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Old 02-19-2022, 12:15 PM   #40
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I was just looking for something exactly like this. Any chance we can try it soon? Are you still working on it, @ErBird?
TBH, I wound up deep down a graphics rabbit hole and decided my time was better spent learning VST coding.
I didn't want to post the plugin with the colored curve looking all blocky like that, but if you don't mind, I'll post it.
Let me know what aspect of the plugin you like and I'll update it a little.



I did come up with a smooth, soft-glow drawing scheme, but it wound up being unreliable for certain shapes. Here it looks pretty nice.

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