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Old 06-23-2008, 12:44 PM   #1
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Default Metronome count-in issues (FIXED)

Metronome is set to play a 1 bar count in, yet it plays 5 beats (in 4/4). Annoying, not to mention the cause of much laugh from fellow musicians(your sequencer can't count...blahblah nahnah...). With default sound or my own, and on 2 completely different computers.

Last edited by bullshark; 01-15-2009 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Solved issue
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:59 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
Metronome is set to play a 1 bar count in, yet it plays 5 beats (in 4/4). Annoying, not to mention the cause of much laugh from fellow musicians(your sequencer can't count...blahblah nahnah...). With default sound or my own, and on 2 completely different computers.
Hmm... wierd here it does the complete difference, only doing 3 beats instead of 4. Anyway I fixed it by setting the count in length to 1.1 beats.
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:13 PM   #3
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Maybe we should network our computer, then we'd get a sequencer that can count right...

Just tried your trick, by setting the count in to 0.75 I get a 4 beat countdown, but it start on subsequent beats and end on first, so still no joy.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:42 PM   #4
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Just a friendly reminder. Seems this bug transposed over to my new Quad machine so it's not hardware configuration related.
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:57 PM   #5
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I've always noticed this quirk, hopefully it gets fixed soon.
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:48 AM   #6
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+1 for fixing this issue
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:53 AM   #7
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Still hopeful...
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Old 08-23-2008, 04:43 AM   #8
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me to...........
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:59 PM   #9
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Um... where are you setting this??? In the right-click menu for the metronome button?? Works fine here in the latest version.
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Old 08-24-2008, 04:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberience View Post
Um... where are you setting this??? In the right-click menu for the metronome button?? Works fine here in the latest version.
What do you mean by "work fine"? How many pre-count beat are you getting in 4/4? I'm getting 5 here instead of 4, and tested on now 5 completely different computers with different audio hardware... and that's been going on since Reaper got a metronome. Not what you're getting?
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:15 PM   #11
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Works perfectly here. 4 Counts in with 1 bar set, 8 counts in with 2 bars. on both playback and recording...

Are you using the same project file every time you test it, bullshark?


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Old 08-24-2008, 06:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pembo View Post
Works perfectly here. 4 Counts in with 1 bar set, 8 counts in with 2 bars. on both playback and recording...
That's awfully strange...

Quote:
Are you using the same project file every time you test it, bullshark?
No, I'm talking about half a dozen computers, hundreds of projects, countless OS install of both XP sp2 and sp3 AND Reaper version over a one year period, with the exact same repeatable problem. That's why even one person saying it works fine completely and utterly boggles my mind, let alone two.
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
That's awfully strange...
And here I am thinking what I had was normal!

I didn't even realise that anyone had any problems whatsoever with it!

Does it do it just at the start of the project or anywhere in the timeline?

Hmm... I can imagine this would be very frustrating for you, to say the least.

Far more than the nitpick I have that the "Secondary Beat Gain" doesn't fine tune quite fine enough (I can never get it set to exactly -6dB. Only -6.02dB!)
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:35 PM   #14
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Perhaps we need to clarify the nitpick?
What I get when I have a count-in of 1 measure ticked, but have 'enable during playback/ recording' unticked, is four clicks of count-in plus a click on the first beat of the first measure.

Is that what this thread is about? It surely is not perfect.

I remember reading another thread about this and another problem with odd signatures and the count in, but can't find it now (bit of in a hurry right now)
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Perhaps we need to clarify the nitpick?
What I get when I have a count-in of 1 measure ticked, but have 'enable during playback/ recording' unticked, is four clicks of count-in plus a click on the first beat of the first measure.
That's what I get too: tock tick tick tick tock
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:37 AM   #16
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Apologies. I was getting confused. Yes, I also get 5 beats when set to 1 measure of click.

It is a problem, because 1 measure shouldn't include the extra downbeat of the next bar.
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:07 AM   #17
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Perhaps add an option to the Metronome window, to have it both ways:

[img]http://img247.**************/img247/3852/dsr2metronomebe8.png[/img]
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
That's what I get too: tock tick tick tick tock
With ASIO I get tock tick tick tick tock, with Waveout (cause I don't need low latency and like to be able to have apps share the sound device) I get ... tick tick tick tock. Can anyone confirm this? (Waveout at 8x1024)
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Old 08-25-2008, 04:31 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
With ASIO I get tock tick tick tick tock, with Waveout (cause I don't need low latency and like to be able to have apps share the sound device) I get ... tick tick tick tock. Can anyone confirm this? (Waveout at 8x1024)
I'm using external sample sound and reduced the beat click lenght to zero.
With ASIO I get: tock tick tick tick glitch
with waveout I get: glitch tick tick tick tock
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Old 08-25-2008, 04:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Perhaps add an option to the Metronome window, to have it both ways:

[img]http://img247.**************/img247/3852/dsr2metronomebe8.png[/img]
Why? Everybody I've ran the metronome with gets thrown off at first by the 5 beat pre-count. Sure they usually get used to it after 2-3 run in, but is there really anybody who prefer to work this way?

Last edited by bullshark; 08-25-2008 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:28 AM   #21
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Is this issue solved?


FIXED (2.55pre1)

Last edited by Dstruct; 01-18-2009 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:05 AM   #22
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Nope, it isn't.
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:21 AM   #23
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Ok, just tested it myself (with ASIO) and I can't really confirm it 100%.


Here I get a 1 bar count-in with 4 beats.

But: The timing is a bit off. After the count-in, the first beat of the arrange doesn't kick in 100% tight to the metronome.


This

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
I fixed it by setting the count in length to 1.1 beats.
fixes it here.



Would be nice if Justin or schwa could have a look at this. Might need the metronome sometime soon ...

FIXED (2.55pre1)


+ it also has a small display issue:

you get a minus sign displayed in front of the time for a very short time before the count-in begins.

Last edited by Dstruct; 01-18-2009 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:35 AM   #24
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If I recall correctly, Justin wasn't really in for Reaper to even have a metronome to begin with (I'm not quite sure what the reasons were), so I wouldn't hold my breath. Worth to bump this once in a while thought, if they get bored with everything else, maybe, if we're lucky, they'll have a look at this.
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Old 08-31-2008, 08:40 AM   #25
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Its funny... I get the "glitch" thing too but I always thought it was some sort of buffering issue so I would only start playing after two measures to avoid any timing issues...
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:33 PM   #26
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Hello out there!

I am new to this, so please be patient!

As I read parts of this thread I remembered that I wanted to use Reaper's Metronome but then I used some workarounds because of this annoying fifth (ninth) click. So I fiddled around a bit and perhaps this may help
you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
Hmm... wierd here it does the complete difference, only doing 3 beats instead of 4. Anyway I fixed it by setting the count in length to 1.1 beats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Ok, just tested it myself (with ASIO) and I can't really confirm it 100%.


Here I get a 1 bar count-in with 4 beats.

But: The timing is a bit off. After the count-in, the first beat of the arrange doesn't kick in 100% tight to the metronome.
I set it to 1.01 instead of 1.1 and it works fine on my machine. It is still off time but this isn't noticable anymore. If you use for example a sampled metronome sound you might hear a silent click at the beginning of the first bar (after the countin). If you don't use samples it is also a good idea not to set the frequencies too high.

You can even create a click-track:
First select a range and then from the main menu choose "Insert" -> "Click source". But as far as I know you cannot set any options. The metronome settings seem to be ignored whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pembo View Post
...

Does it do it just at the start of the project or anywhere in the timeline?

Hmm... I can imagine this would be very frustrating for you, to say the least.

Far more than the nitpick I have that the "Secondary Beat Gain" doesn't fine tune quite fine enough (I can never get it set to exactly -6dB. Only -6.02dB!)
No, this occurs everywhere in the project.

And: if you really want to, you can set "Secondary Beat Gain" to exactly -6 dB. Drag the fader closely to the -6-dB-mark and then, while turning the mousewheel, press the control-key.


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Old 09-07-2008, 06:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
You can even create a click-track:
First select a range and then from the main menu choose "Insert" -> "Click source". But as far as I know you cannot set any options. The metronome settings seem to be ignored whatsoever.

And: if you really want to, you can set "Secondary Beat Gain" to exactly -6 dB. Drag the fader closely to the -6-dB-mark and then, while turning the mousewheel, press the control-key.


Mr. Data
I think the click source I known to everyone. In fact it was their first and the metronome was implemented because folks didn't want to use a click source, so I doubt anyone wants to use it.
Anyway the click source properties can be changed via "Item properties... -> Properties..." and they seem to work here (only tested the volume, though).

Here fine tuning doesn't get it to exactly -6dB. It might depend on the mouse sensitivity, though.
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:32 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
I think the click source I known to everyone. In fact it was their first and the metronome was implemented because folks didn't want to use a click source, so I doubt anyone wants to use it.
Anyway the click source properties can be changed via "Item properties... -> Properties..." and they seem to work here (only tested the volume, though).

Here fine tuning doesn't get it to exactly -6dB. It might depend on the mouse sensitivity, though.
I don't use it either and therefore I never even thought of looking at the properties of a clicktrack item - but it works. You can even load samples as in the metronome settings.

Strangly enough, I can set the level to -6dB but if I close Reaper and start it up again it shows the mentioned -6.02.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:45 PM   #29
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After further investigation and trying I cannot achieve really satisfying results on that. the "1.01" thing seems to work only with 120 bpm and if you use a tempo map with 120 bpm even then not always. This is a kind of thing that can drive you mad but on the other hand it is not that important, as you can use the clicktrack as a workaround - 'though this isn't very convenient.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:51 PM   #30
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A click track works only if you want it on all the time and you only play or record from the start of the song. Not convenient at all and why the metronome was finally added. Too bad it doesn't work right.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
A click track works only if you want it on all the time and you only play or record from the start of the song. Not convenient at all and why the metronome was finally added. Too bad it doesn't work right.


You're right - very inconvenient. I do a "Click source" and then cut away all I don't need or I change the length of the created item or trim it to the selected range, then I shift it to the position it's needed. Tempo and signature fit automatically, no matter, where you put the item (but the display is corrected only if you modify the item). The only thing is: the item needs to be shortened or lenghened, depending on the tempo changes you do in your project.
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
A click track works only if you want it on all the time and you only play or record from the start of the song. Not convenient at all and why the metronome was finally added. Too bad it doesn't work right.
Huh? You can just mute the click track, no?* And it is still in sync when you start playback in the middle of the track.
However, there is no count-in.

*I guess you mean different options for playback and recording.

Anyway Cockos fix the metronome!
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:52 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
Huh? You can just mute the click track, no?* And it is still in sync when you start playback in the middle of the track.
However, there is no count-in.

*I guess you mean different options for playback and recording.
Yes, different option for playback and recording and count in (you can make a count in in the very beginning using a click track, but not in the middle).
Quote:
Anyway Cockos fix the metronome!
I'm now wondering if this bug hold the record for the longest standing bug in Reaper history?
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:01 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark
I'm now wondering if this bug hold the record for the longest standing bug in Reaper history?
I doubt it. Could show you several older ones.


FIXED (2.55pre1)

Last edited by Dstruct; 01-18-2009 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
However, there is no count-in.

...

Anyway Cockos fix the metronome!
As I stated above, I very rarely use this thing (if ever), 'cos I normally do audio things in Reaper. I just wanted to figure out ('cos I like to figure out things), how one can workaround this issue 'till it's fixed. And it has to be fixed as soon as possible, because this is far off professionality!! But for the time being, *if* I'd really need a countin, I'd put a clicktrack item of one or two bars in front of what I want to record and start recording from there.
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:03 AM   #36
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yeah, big bump here.


FIXED (2.55pre1)

Last edited by Dstruct; 01-18-2009 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:49 AM   #37
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yeah, and while looking at it maybe the feature of playing back the recorded material during the "count in" is getting some major love too

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Old 10-01-2008, 10:35 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannebambel View Post
yeah, and while looking at it maybe the feature of playing back the recorded material during the "count in" is getting some major love too
Maybe you are aware of this but you can get something pretty similar if you use the auto-punch record mode:



- Make a time selection over the part you want to record.
- Place the edit cursor before that part (2 bars in the example image)

Now if you hit record, the count-in comes first, then you hear the playback during the 2 bar "preroll" phase and after that it starts recording. You can even turn off the count-in or the whole metronome while doing this if the playback contains drums in the "preroll" phase to speed up things a bit.
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:46 PM   #39
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Still hopeful...for version 3 maybe?
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Still hopeful...for version 3 maybe?
Maybe version 5.3?
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