Old 04-19-2014, 01:50 AM   #1
ManyTracks
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Default Stems Rendering - bypassing PAN etc.

I'm working on a project right now where I need to export stems. That is I want to render out lots of individual tracks.

- Violins
- Violas
- Celli
- Basses
- Grand Piano
- Flute section
- Flute solo
- Piccolo Flute

Etc up to around - in this case - 45 tracks.


All these tracks appear in my mixer in Reaper and everything works just fine.

I have figured out how to set up Reaper so that it exports this naming each individual file accoring to its track number and its track name. Excellent and Reaper does this well with the "wildcards" option in the Render dialogue window.

Now to my question / issue :

If for instance "Piccolo Flute" has it panning set a bit to the left or right in my mix in Reaper, when I export it with all the stems, I want the panning setting to be ignored.

I want the stems to reflect EXACTLY what the outputis from my Kontakt 5 sample players. That is: I want the render process to ignore all inserted effects, ignore all pan settings, ignore all channel fader settings etc. I just want to render it out AS IF the panning was centered, the channel fader was at 0dB and any inserted FX were de-activated.

I need this because sometime a project will be mixed by other people in another studio on a console etc. Which means that my stems should refelect what my instruments sound like (my Kontakt 5 outputs) and not any settings that I have used during the composing phase of the work.

Iti's a lot of work to reset pans and faders just to make a "neutral" stem render of all tracks so I would like to find a more efficient way to do this.

How can I bypass faders / pan-settings etc when exporting to stems?


Thanks in advance
MT
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:09 AM   #2
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Sounds like freezing tracks might do what you need.

Freeze, then unfreeze, and the tracks should have been rendered.

Hang on, if you want no FX, then you probably want to "glue" the tracks. NIFOR or manual, read up on glue and see if it does what you want...


>
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:30 AM   #3
ManyTracks
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Hi Nathan, not sure freeze or glue really is what is needed here... What I need is simply something that bypasses all FX and mixer settings while rendering/exporting individual tracks to stems. And then after I'm done with the stem render I want to have my project intact with all the FX and channel faders where I had hem before. I don't want to struggle manually resetting a huge template just because I need to render clean stems.

Last edited by ManyTracks; 04-19-2014 at 02:35 AM. Reason: 1
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:35 AM   #4
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Sounds like you need a custom action/script to select all tracks, reset pan, disable all fx and render. Look in actions windows
People asking for specific tasks should go deeply into custom action world. Almost anything can be done using custom actions and especially reascripts.
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:51 AM   #5
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Viente, would a "script" like that be able to first memorize the settings. I want the settings back after I've done the stem render.

It appears as if - for instance - Sonar has buttons in its export dialogue where you can simply bypass FX and mixer settings DURING rendering. Something like that would be good.

Basically I don't want to change a thing in my mix setup.- I just want Reaper to pick up the audio signals straight out of the sample player / synth outputs and feed them each respective stem in the export. The mixer and its settings should not really need to be involved. It's WHERE Reaper taps into the signal path when rendring that I want to control.
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:59 AM   #6
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Snapshots might help here.

Save a snapshot of the whole mix.

There are actions to reset pans and volumes of tracks.

So create a macro with saving/recalling snapshots, resetting pans/volumes, stem rendering (or freezing/unfreezing).

If your project only contains audio items, you can simply use 'Consolidate tracks...'.
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyTracks View Post
Viente, would a "script" like that be able to first memorize the settings. I want the settings back after I've done the stem render.

It appears as if - for instance - Sonar has buttons in its export dialogue where you can simply bypass FX and mixer settings DURING rendering. Something like that would be good.

Basically I don't want to change a thing in my mix setup.- I just want Reaper to pick up the audio signals straight out of the sample player / synth outputs and feed them each respective stem in the export. The mixer and its settings should not really need to be involved. It's WHERE Reaper taps into the signal path when rendring that I want to control.
Yes it can memorize but it will require more work to do such script. But why you just can't render stems and just reload the project with original settings?
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:57 AM   #8
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you could create prefader Sends to new tracks for each track, and export stems of the new ones.

A cool script to create sends here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122580
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
you could create prefader Sends to new tracks for each track, and export stems of the new ones.

A cool script to create sends here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122580

But those pre fader sends would still include any alteration in panning and FX right...? Would that pre fader signal be identical to the output of the synths / sample players...?
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyTracks View Post
But those pre fader sends would still include any alteration in panning and FX right...? Would that pre fader signal be identical to the output of the synths / sample players...?
there is "Pre Fader Post FX" and "pre FX" if you want the raw signal witohut any fx. Look in the user guide in 5.23 Audio signal flow chart.
PreFader Post FX takes into account envelope columes and pans, but not fader volumes and pans.
Pre FX ignores any envelopes or FX. It is the one you may want to use.

edit: wait you say it was kontakt tracks... so Kontakt is considered a track FX.. so PreFX would not send anything.. that would be afor audio tracks. So you have to Freeze Kontakt first, without any other possible FX you have after Kontakt. Right click in Kontakt FX and Freeze to stereo up to last selected FX.

Last edited by heda; 04-19-2014 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:28 AM   #11
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Tried to create a macro with snapshots.
Found out that snapshots are not saving/recalling track width settings.
Also the bypass state of item fx cannot be saved within a snapshot.
Learned something new today.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:56 AM   #12
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jeez...make a custom action :

1. Select all tracks
2. Bypass FX on selectted tracks
3. Pan selected tracks to center

Render your mix.

Close the project, don't save
Open it again.

DONE

took me 1 minute
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente View Post
jeez...make a custom action :

1. Select all tracks
2. Bypass FX on selectted tracks
3. Pan selected tracks to center

Render your mix.

Close the project, don't save
Open it again.

DONE

took me 1 minute


How do I with one click bypass all my 36 FX but NOT the Kontakt 5 plugins?
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:26 AM   #14
witti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente View Post
jeez...make a custom action :

1. Select all tracks
2. Bypass FX on selectted tracks
3. Pan selected tracks to center

Render your mix.

Close the project, don't save
Open it again.

DONE

took me 1 minute
jeez is not there at the moment, but will be back very soon.

@manytracks

There are actions to only bypass fx1 or fx2 etc. of a track. (sws)
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:26 AM   #15
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Well if you have it on slot 1 you can use

"Bypass all FX (except 01) for selected tracks"

If not, you can ask for a Reascript guys to do a special script for you. With Reascript you can unbypass any plugins by name
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente View Post
Well if you have it on slot 1 you can use

"Bypass all FX (except 01) for selected tracks"

If not, you can ask for a Reascript guys to do a special script for you. With Reascript you can unbypass any plugins by name

Let's say I have 45 tracks.
Each track is fed from either a soft synth (like FM8) or from Kontakt 5.
Most of these track may have an inserted EQ or some kind of FX inserted.
Each track has its own unique panning
Each tracks has its own unique fader setting

When rendering out to stems I want to:

Bypass ALL FX that are not Synths or Samplers
Bypass ALL Pan settings (should be centered)
Bypass ALL fader settings (should be 0 dB setting
Bypass ALL possible mute settings


The result: Getting clean unporocessed cenetered 0dB level signals the way they are when they are fed out from the synths or Kontakt 5.

After such an export, I want to quickly be able to return to my template and see all my unique settings.

So the render is a seperate project and has nothing to do and should have nothing to do with what I see in my Reaper mix / track view.

I think both Sonar and Cubase and some othre DAW's does this as this is sort of a standard procedure for many. If it only happens once a year I guess a more time consuming method would be fine. But if the project is 14 minutes long and contains 40-75 tracks and you need to do it a couple of times a day during a 3 week project one is looking for convenient solutions...

Anyway... Reaper is doing a superb job for multi track projects and by far the most solid DAW I have worked with. Love it!
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:39 AM   #17
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I have another idea for next time. Why not having the original tracks only with the Kontakt instances and no panning or volume. Uncheck parent send for these tracks and do a regular send to a copy of each track where you do your mixing, volume, panning, FX etc.. now if you want the raw kontakt tracks you just have to render the stems of the kontakt tracks. I think you should quickly enable parent send on those, render the stems and uncheck parent send again
.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
I have another idea for next time. Why not having the original tracks only with the Kontakt instances and no panning or volume. Uncheck parent send for these tracks and do a regular send to a copy of each track where you do your mixing, volume, panning, FX etc.. now if you want the raw kontakt tracks you just have to render the stems of the kontakt tracks. I think you should quickly enable parent send on those, render the stems and uncheck parent send again
.
Sound interstings... This may be some kind of work around... As my mix is basically my own "Monitor mix while composing" this may be solution that would work in lack of nice button in the render dialogue (bypass bla bla bla).

I'll try this and see how it feels. Thanks a lot!
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:54 AM   #19
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I can try to make it via ReaScript. This might be useful for me as well.

With reascript i can check if FX is VST ot VSTi and bypass only one of thhem.
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:04 AM   #20
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isn't "consolidate / export tracks" pre-fader??
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente View Post
I can try to make it via ReaScript. This might be useful for me as well.

With reascript i can check if FX is VST ot VSTi and bypass only one of thhem.
That would really nice if have the time to try this. Thanks in advance and good luck
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:53 PM   #22
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Default Stem rendering

Yes stem rendering is supposed to be TOTALLY independent of effects, panning, faders, and everything else. That's why it's called "stems" after all. It's not called "stems plus FX plus yada yada...".

Anyone who works in classical music knows and understands this.

Unfortunately, the Reaper authors and users don't generally understand much of anything about recording multitrack, acoustical music. That is music where the multiple tracks are all recorded at the same time in the same space on a bunch of microphones.

I have built a rather extensive extension to Reaper for doing real multitrack classical music editing that does the hundreds of functions that Reaper is totally missing, as well as fixes (by programming around) the hundreds of bugs and quirks in Reaper and SWS, and exporting clean stems is one of those critical, basic, and important features that should be fundamental in any audio system.

It certainly was a fundamental feature of Sonic Solutions 20 years ago, and is a fundamental feature of Pyramix, etc. to this day.

In any case, it's great that Reaper allows us to fix all of its numerous problems through our own software, but it never ceases to amaze me how many basic fundamentals of the recording business about which the Reaper software engineers seem to know nothing.

Get in touch if you are interested in my classical music multitrack editing extension to Reaper...
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Old 07-22-2019, 06:10 PM   #23
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I recommend looking into recording the audio out of contact into mono items, then rendering those items as stems. That will avoid, at least, track level/effects/pans.

But it won't avoid item effects or level/panning at the take or item level. No problem if you don't use that stuff...

If you do, the simplest thing to do would be to copy all those audio items to a new project, then disable take & item envelopes and zero take and item gains.

Strictly speaking, this won't result in stems in the usual sense of the word. More like a collection of unmixed raw audio tracks.

Good luck.
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:44 AM   #24
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Default Pre Fader Render

Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
Yes stem rendering is supposed to be TOTALLY independent of effects, panning, faders, and everything else. That's why it's called "stems" after all. It's not called "stems plus FX plus yada yada...".


Get in touch if you are interested in my classical music multitrack editing extension to Reaper...
Hi, Cohler!
Yes, I'm very much interested in your extension to Reaper. Would love to buy it, if you can sell. Especially I'm interested in function on 1xoffline stem render pre-fader. It could be amazing.
My email is dimagorelick@gmail.com
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
Yes stem rendering is supposed to be TOTALLY independent of effects, panning, faders, and everything else.
The classical recording crowd has always been a bit different, but I think most of the industry actually expects that when you pull the stems up at unity it just sounds like the mix as intended. This way you can quickly adjust things for like a vocals-up, a drums-up, acapella, no-vocals options or just make small adjustments to balance without recalling the whole original mix. Many people actually send these stems to the mastering engineer for a final tweak and polish before it gets summed to the final stereo file. Another thing they are very often used for is to bring a big mix down to a reasonable number of subgroups to send out to an analog summing bus.

This use case is just not at all typical for stems. I feel like, if you’ve actually recorded live acoustic instruments and want just no fix or v and p on them...well that’s what you recorded. Those files are there already. You can bring them into Reaper to trim or whatever and then glue them if you want. Still doesn’t require using the stem render feature.

Unfortunately I don’t have a good answer for how the OP can easily get what they want from where they are, but I agree that separating the “source” tracks from the “mix” tracks would help a lot, if one knew they were going to want this at the start.

Last edited by ashcat_lt; 11-25-2019 at 12:08 PM.
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