Old 09-18-2019, 12:13 AM   #81
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What if you got no compensation and no credit? Still a go?

And what if the folks using it are making money hand over fist due to the use of your music?
have you got some figures on how often this happens from Facebook (or Soundcloud for that matter)? I see people talk about this quite a bit but wonder how much of a problem it is in practice. I've had stuff used without permission but that was decades ago
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:33 AM   #82
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have you got some figures on how often this happens from Facebook (or Soundcloud for that matter)? I see people talk about this quite a bit but wonder how much of a problem it is in practice. I've had stuff used without permission but that was decades ago
It was just a hypothetical question to see how far is too much.

I allow downloads of my music on Soundclick for two reasons.

1. Anyone with half a clue can figure out how to grab it anyway.
2. More people have my music on their phones and computers.

If someone uses it in a commercial for profit endeavor though, I still expect to be compensated for it, because I own the rights.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:40 AM   #83
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It was just a hypothetical question to see how far is too much.

I allow downloads of my music on Soundclick for two reasons.

1. Anyone with half a clue can figure out how to grab it anyway.
2. More people have my music on their phones and computers.

If someone uses it in a commercial for profit endeavor though, I still expect to be compensated for it, because I own the rights.

oh, I thought your post had something to do with posting music on Facebook
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:49 AM   #84
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oh, I thought your post had something to do with posting music on Facebook
Well the question is valid no matter where you have your music stashed. If they started using it in a for profit commercial environment, and you got no compensation or recognition, would you still allow it to reside on whoever's servers are hosting it?

I've done works for hire where I wrote all the music, played and engineered it, but when I hear it in a commercial or documentary film I'm the only one who knows it's me, but I got paid for my time in that scenario, and received no credit for the work after.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:55 AM   #85
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Well the question is valid no matter where you have your music stashed. If they started using it in a for profit commercial environment, and you got no compensation or recognition, would you still allow it to reside on whoever's servers are hosting it?

I've done works for hire where I wrote all the music, played and engineered it, but when I hear it in a commercial or documentary film I'm the only one who knows it's me, but I got paid for my time in that scenario, and received no credit for the work after.
I still dont see what that has to do with Facebook - I thought all the social media sites have various takedown notices. Would be a drag to go through that process but no worse than any other claim eg used in a film without permission
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:14 AM   #86
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I still dont see what that has to do with Facebook - I thought all the social media sites have various takedown notices. Would be a drag to go through that process but no worse than any other claim eg used in a film without permission
Part of my facetiousness above is that...

1. Few if any of us have anything that FB would ever want much less some global money making thing - really. And if we did, we should be so lucky to have something that good with that much exposure.

2. Can someone point me to any FB user's music that FB is currently using for their own gain and fits such a scenario?

3. The discussion wasn't about someone stealing your music but FB's sharing policy and that FB would use it and not compensate you. However, as more than one of us have pointed out that the agreement in question is you giving permission so that when "joe" uploads a video to FB, that "sally" can share it on FB, there must be an agreement to allow that to occur and is needed even if FB never used your content for themselves. And if they did, any agreement is destroyed when/if you remove your content.

4. If any of you fall prey to FB making sums of money off your music, let us know so we can grab our pitchforks, but I don't see it happening for reasons mentioned above.

5. The idea that you are somehow handing over your own rights or copyrights to your own music by uploading to FB, is completely wrong and misinformation, even if stated with good intent.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:54 AM   #87
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Yet there was this time when FB used random pics from it's users for advertising...

It was discovered by someone who saw his own pic on an ad for a dating site. Fortunately before his wife saw it. What if FB decides to use your song? Feeling up to a fight?
Then delete the song if you don't want Facebook sharing it. That ends their license and their right to use it.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:29 PM   #88
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Yet there was this time when FB used random pics from it's users for advertising...

It was discovered by someone who saw his own pic on an ad for a dating site. Fortunately before his wife saw it. What if FB decides to use your song? Feeling up to a fight?
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Then delete the song if you don't want Facebook sharing it. That ends their license and their right to use it.
Haha ... theoretically yes: That ends their license.

But practically never!

In their terms and conditions you give them the right to also use
the song in any of their companies - which are many. And you also
give them the right to hand over your song to third party companies.
That can be many more.

So practically you'll have to invest an infinite amount of time to
find and withdraw all the uses of your song. Good luck with that!
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:52 PM   #89
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You should post actual examples, FB has been around 15 years now, surely they'd have jumped on such an opportunity (FWIW the license ends completely when you remove the content, no chasing anyone). I couldn't find much but maybe I'm using the wrong search terms - but the vast majority of results are about users uploading someone else's copyrighted music - actually and practically being the vastly bigger problem.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:47 PM   #90
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Haha ... theoretically yes: That ends their license.

But practically never!

In their terms and conditions you give them the right to also use
the song in any of their companies - which are many. And you also
give them the right to hand over your song to third party companies.
That can be many more.

So practically you'll have to invest an infinite amount of time to
find and withdraw all the uses of your song. Good luck with that!
No, not theoretically. Legally and in reality. As soon as you delete the content, Facebook has no right to it, and since you have retained all rights to it (by, you know, not giving them up in the first place) no one else does, either.

You're just going to have to come to grips with being wrong on this. Because you are wrong on this.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:56 PM   #91
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re Facebook - I am happy to go along with the BBC and multiple artists whose work I admire and use them. The idea that Facebook are going to rip off my music and somehow deprive me of benefits I would otherwise receive is unrealistic.
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:16 AM   #92
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next week, I'll be updating the software on a CMS that hasn't been touched in over 10 years, besides from new content. Never went down.
A musician looking to start a webpage - the title of this thread - has how much time and resources to discover the Magical CMS that never goes down?
Wordpress was fine, for awhile. Then it wasn't.

Quote:
The problem with the entire sector is that you need a reliable host.
Again, for the musician looking to start a webpage - what's a "reliable host"? Who vets that?
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:19 AM   #93
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You could say the same about buying a guitar...

It's all about how much you're willing to learn. No time? Don't do it.

In the long run, if you're serious about it, it's still the only way to do it. All these automated website builders (wix.com, fi) add tons of weight for very little result.

That's what FB is offering: no effort, no control. If you prefer to make music, that's fine. If you're building a web presence, it's a waste of time.
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:17 PM   #94
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we use Weebly. our site isn't totally up to snuff, but it's getting a bit better day by day.
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:57 PM   #95
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Stay away from Register.com. Shady service.
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Old 09-20-2019, 02:14 PM   #96
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Wordpress was fine, for awhile. Then it wasn't.
what do you mean by wordpress was fine and then it wasn't - WP has worked fine for me across many sites for many years. Occasionally needs maintenance but you can easily have a website using WP and do no more than an hour or two a year maintaining it.

I have a site for a project that was written up in The New Yorker - has been running for years, all done in WP with a DIVI front end. No-one wrote in to The New Yorker saying - oh no, this is a wordpress site, dont take these people seriously. Fair enough to have different preferences but to discourage someone who has little background in code or interest in coding to ignore a free reliable resource like Wordpress is a bit inconsiderate

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Old 09-20-2019, 02:27 PM   #97
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I don't know the details of how to set-up your own website but ideally...


You'd have links from Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, etc., to your personal website (where you have total control of everything).


If you want to SELL your music, the marketing experts recommend being active on ALL the popular social media sites, and sell your music on multiple sites.


But, that can chew-up LOTs of time if you have a day job.
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Old 09-20-2019, 02:39 PM   #98
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I

But, that can chew-up LOTs of time if you have a day job.
that's the real hidden cost - the time needed to build a social media presence that generates income is pretty substantial, but if you already have a following from concerts or other activities it is not so bad. Building a paying audience from scratch and purely through social media with no pre existing hooks into the real world of actual physical people is incredibly difficult

Something like Hootsuite can help a lot
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:59 PM   #99
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what do you mean by wordpress was fine and then it wasn't - WP has worked fine for me across many sites for many years.

Do a search for "Wordpress exploit". Under "news" in Google. Limit it to a month ago.


Quote:
I have a site for a project that was written up in The New Yorker - has been
That speaks nothing of whether Wordpress has vulnerabilities or not.


Quote:
No-one wrote in to The New Yorker saying - oh no, this is a wordpress site, dont take these people seriously.

You're conflating whether it's vulnerable to attack with how it looks, or it's utility when working.


Quote:
Fair enough to have different preferences but to discourage someone who has little background in code or interest in coding to ignore a free reliable resource like Wordpress is a bit inconsiderate

I would urge the reader to do the search I reference above "Wordpress exploit" in Google news and make up their own mind instead of listening to me or you.
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:44 PM   #100
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Do a search for "Wordpress exploit". Under "news" in Google. Limit it to a month ago.

I would urge the reader to do the search I reference above "Wordpress exploit" in Google news and make up their own mind instead of listening to me or you.


also substitute OSX and win10 for wordpress, and then think about how secure a website you write from scratch is - as an inexperienced coder, or even an experienced coder. Nothing connected to the net is safe -

of course you are entitled to your idiosyncratic opinion but I would encourage the OP to consider how popular Wordpress is and think maybe all those tens of millions of wordpress sites serving hundreds of millions of pages a day are perhaps a better indication of the value of what is overwhelmingly the most popular software for building a website

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Old 09-22-2019, 08:39 AM   #101
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also substitute OSX and win10 for wordpress,
.... and that has nothing to do with a musician starting a web page.

Quote:
of course you are entitled to your idiosyncratic opinion
It's not "idiosyncratic opinion" to point the musician looking to start a web page to a Google search for "Wordpress exploit".
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:12 AM   #102
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Wordpress is the go-to example when someone says "You don't want to see how the sausage gets made."

From a content manager's perspective, it is almost perfect. It is easy to use, provides lots of libraries and utilities, and it looks great.

Under the covers it's a complete mess, and, as has been noted, has a whole bunch of vulnerabilities. Most are of the "exposed data" type, and aren't what one would call critical, but the sheer mess of the Wordpress codebase doesn't help finding or fixing them, and it doesn't do much for confidence that more serious ones won't pop up.

If I am running it, it is behind a proper firewall, and sitting in a DMZ where it has no access to my critical systems. It can run my catalog and brochure sites. It doesn't get to touch my purchasing or HR systems.
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:39 AM   #103
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Something like Hootsuite can help a lot
Funny you should mention that.

It was one of the infection routes for Wannacry in some networks that had WP running internally. And a firewall did nothing in this case, as everything went over port 80, even TLS...
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