Old 11-13-2019, 06:18 PM   #1
kirk1701
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Default Reaverb as send clipping

I use Reaverb as a send for all my verbs. I'm having trouble getting the right sound without clipping the send by a significant amount.

Turn up send, sounds fine, fader clips. Turn down send, clipping disappears, so does reverb. What am I missing?
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:55 PM   #2
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Since you're doing it as a send, do you have the Wet slider at 0db, and dry at -inf? By default, the signal I think works out to being your full dry audio (0db dry), plus a bit of the wet signal (-12db wet), so you're amplifying the dry signal on the reverb, and adding a bit of reverb. There could be a reason to want that, but it's not likely that's what you're trying to do.

Outside of that, is your reverb track at an appropriate volume? I usually keep it at 0db, and adjust the send amount. You of course mentioned adjusting the send amount, but if you left the wet/dry sliders as is, then again, you're going to be duplicating your dry signal.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by nait View Post
Since you're doing it as a send, do you have the Wet slider at 0db, and dry at -inf? By default, the signal I think works out to being your full dry audio (0db dry), plus a bit of the wet signal (-12db wet), so you're amplifying the dry signal on the reverb, and adding a bit of reverb. There could be a reason to want that, but it's not likely that's what you're trying to do.

Outside of that, is your reverb track at an appropriate volume? I usually keep it at 0db, and adjust the send amount. You of course mentioned adjusting the send amount, but if you left the wet/dry sliders as is, then again, you're going to be duplicating your dry signal.
Wet is 0db, dry -inf. All sends post-fader. Reverb buss dumps to sub-master buss.

I'm having trouble finding a balance between the send amount and the fader level.

Honestly I'm also having trouble even hearing reverb tail. I'm experimenting with Hopkins EMT IRs.

I've even experimented with the -18db, no src gain options. It's either way too much or I can't hear it.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:47 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
fader clips.
(If I am right supposing that you don't hear any clipping: just for the record and suggesting to use correct terms...)

What do you mean by "fader clips" ?

Within the DAW Floating Point format is used and hence there is no clipping.

Do you mean the meter with the fader shows a red signal meaning zero dB ?

That might be visually unwanted, but it's not harmful in any way.

-Michael
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:24 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
(If I am right supposing that you don't hear any clipping: just for the record and suggesting to use correct terms...)

What do you mean by "fader clips" ?

Within the DAW Floating Point format is used and hence there is no clipping.

Do you mean the meter with the fader shows a red signal meaning zero dB ?

That might be visually unwanted, but it's not harmful in any way.

-Michael
Correct. I do not HEAR any clipping.

It's just the peak meter hitting +10db sometimes.

That much apparent clipping makes me uncomfortable, though I've never HEARD anything amiss.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:54 AM   #6
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All that really matters in the end is how loud it is when it gets to that submaster. If itís not also hitting +10 over there, then itís being attenuated along the way somewhere. Is that the send level from the verb bus?
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:58 PM   #7
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Is the fader on the track you're sending from turned down? Have you tried pre-fader send?
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Is the fader on the track you're sending from turned down? Have you tried pre-fader send?
I have tried turning down the fader. I can keep it from clipping, but the reverb disappears.

I tried pre-fader last night, but all the advice I've read says post-fader for a reverb aux, so I didn't keep it that way long. Stupid internet.

Let's change tacks here and discuss what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm trying for a ca. 1970-era Atlantic Records plate sound. In those days, the plate was tied directly to the desk channels on an echo send. That's my understanding anyway.

Is pre-fader what I want?
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
Is pre-fader what I want?
Do you want to probably have to change the send level every time you adjust the fader, or just let the fader do it for you?

If the reverb bus is showing +10, then whatever is coming out of that fader is hitting +10. If itís not still at +10 when it gets to the submaster, then WTF is turning it back down after the fader?!? The only thing I can think would be the send level, but Iím not looking at it and you didnít answer me the first time. If it IS still +10 when it gets to the sub, then something is definitely wrong.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
Do you want to probably have to change the send level every time you adjust the fader, or just let the fader do it for you?

If the reverb bus is showing +10, then whatever is coming out of that fader is hitting +10. If itís not still at +10 when it gets to the submaster, then WTF is turning it back down after the fader?!? The only thing I can think would be the send level, but Iím not looking at it and you didnít answer me the first time. If it IS still +10 when it gets to the sub, then something is definitely wrong.
Sorry, didn't see your initial post.

The submaster is clipping.

It goes to a master fx buss, which is basically where I put all my 2buss processing. So master comp, eq, tape emu. That dumps to a final empty submaster, then the actual Reaper master.

I'm also generally not sending from individual tracks either. All my individual channels go to submixes in the mixer. So: lead gtrs, rhy. gtrs, bass/keys, drums, sub vocal, lead vocals, bgvs. I learned this method from Tod. There's all kinds of built-in redundancies.

I have been send from the submixes to the verb. I'll try to diagram in text.

Reaper Master:

Master: Master FX: SubMaster: Bass/Keys: Lead Gtrs: Rhy Gtrs: Drums:

SubVox: Lead Vox: BGV:

Verb Bass/Keys/Drums: Verb Gtrs: Verb Vox


I hope this makes sense.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
That much apparent clipping makes me uncomfortable, though I've never HEARD anything amiss.
There is no clipping but just red lights . Hence it does not need to make you feel uncomfortable, but it might look ugly.

-Michael
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:26 PM   #12
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Hi kirk, what track(s) are you sending to the ReaVerb bus? Are you sending multiple tracks?

You should be able to send a signal that is high, but not clipping over 0dB, to the verb bus and get plenty of reverb without clipping the verb bus output.

Quote:
I use Reaverb as a send for all my verbs. I'm having trouble getting the right sound without clipping the send by a significant amount.

Turn up send, sounds fine, fader clips. Turn down send, clipping disappears, so does reverb. What am I missing?
I'm not understanding what you mean when you say "I use Reaverb as a send for all my verbs"? Why would you do that?
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:30 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
There is no clipping but just red lights . Hence it does not need to make you feel uncomfortable, but it might look ugly.

-Michael
At the end of my mixing when I ready to render a mix, I often have buses going into the red, however they seldom, if ever go over +4dB or +5dB, usualy 3dB or less.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi kirk, what track(s) are you sending to the ReaVerb bus? Are you sending multiple tracks?

You should be able to send a signal that is high, but not clipping over 0dB, to the verb bus and get plenty of reverb without clipping the verb bus output.



I'm not understanding what you mean when you say "I use Reaverb as a send for all my verbs"? Why would you do that?
I'll answer the last question first. I just mean I use ReaVerb as the actual effect on the verb buss(es).

The problem verb buss is the vocal verb. I'm sending from the lead vocal and bgv busses.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:51 PM   #15
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I'll answer the last question first. I just mean I use ReaVerb as the actual effect on the verb buss(es).

The problem verb buss is the vocal verb. I'm sending from the lead vocal and bgv busses.
Aah okay, so you're sending the vocal to the verb. Are you sending a good strong signal to the verb bus?

You've already said that the ReaVerb sliders are wet=0.0 and dry=-inf so that's not the issue.

What IRs are you using?
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Old 11-14-2019, 04:07 PM   #16
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Aah okay, so you're sending the vocal to the verb. Are you sending a good strong signal to the verb bus?

You've already said that the ReaVerb sliders are wet=0.0 and dry=-inf so that's not the issue.

What RIs are you using?
Generally I'm sending -33db to the verb buss. I'm using the Hopkins EMT 140 IRs as found on the resources page.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:00 PM   #17
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impulse responses are usually normalized to 0dBFS, with reaverb you usually have to use the -18dB gain option on the file, or else it's WAY too loud. Might also need to move the wet slider down to -12dB or so as well so your sends can be in a normal range.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:49 PM   #18
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Thanks guys! I think I've sorted this. It was all of these things and none.

I was mixing a little later at night than I probably should. My ears were tired and I was auditioning IRs. They probably peaked at +10db when I was swapping them in and out.

Now the reverb buss is only peaking at +1db or so. I used "no SRC gain -18db."
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:10 PM   #19
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Thanks guys! I think I've sorted this. It was all of these things and none.

I was mixing a little later at night than I probably should. My ears were tired and I was auditioning IRs. They probably peaked at +10db when I was swapping them in and out.

Now the reverb buss is only peaking at +1db or so. I used "no SRC gain -18db."
Okay good, I used to use ReaVerb all the time, but I got a couple of good pay for verbs a while back, So I haven't used ReaVerb for a while and forgot about the -18dB thingy.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:31 PM   #20
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Okay good, I used to use ReaVerb all the time, but I got a couple of good pay for verbs a while back, So I haven't used ReaVerb for a while and forgot about the -18dB thingy.
Yeah, I keep going back and forth on Valhalla plate. The ease of use is very tempting, but there's something to be said for taking the long road. Once I figured out I could do the Abbey Road Steed thing in ReaVerb, I decided to see what else I could figure out.
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