Old 09-16-2018, 10:46 AM   #1
freixas
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Default MusicXML

I was pretty excited to see that REAPER imports MusicXML files. I went to Sibelius, had it export a MusicXML file and tried to load it into REAPER.
  • Problem 1: REAPER doesn't recognize compressed MusicXML files. Go back to Sibelius and write out an uncompressed MusicXML file.
  • Problem 2: I have one instrument with three staves. The instrument is a piano and it helps to have separate control over the three. REAPER imported all three into one track where I get the joy of trying to separate them.
  • Problem 3: I set up the track to use the same VST that I used within Sibelius. I quickly learned that all my dynamics were gone. It looks like articulations are gone. Pedaling was gone. Some tempo changes were preserved, but not the ritards and accelerandos. Repeats were gone.
So, while it's nice that can import MusicXML files, it's not really useful except for the simplest files.

Since this is a feature request thread, here are my requests:
  • Support MXL (compressed MusicXML) files. This is probably five minutes of work.
  • Provide some options for how to handle separate staves. You might even want to read the file and then ask how to distribute staves to tracks.
  • Add some way of processing articulations. Personally, I'd suggest skipping re-inventing the wheel and copy Sibelius's performance dictionary. There's a separate thread with some talk about using Notion's rules—spare us, please.
  • There are some additional subtleties that need to be considered. On a grand staff, dynamics can apply to both staves or just the one above it. It gets a little trickier when the setting is to apply dynamics to all staves and the different staves are given different dynamics; the rule is to honor the top stave, but allow the other staves to override until the next marking.
I realize this is not easy because you are now treading onto the difficult ground of creating a performance engine and you really need to pull in an expert. If you don't have an expert, just copy what Sibelius does exactly (Finale may be as good a model or better; I don't use it, so I don't know).

My goal in all this is to input a file from Sibelius and then tweak the performance in ways that are not easy or possible from Sibelius. If Sibelius ever added a MIDI editor, this might become moot.

Obviously, for people who create music directly in REAPER, none of this has any value.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:55 AM   #2
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[*]Problem 2: I have one instrument with three staves. The instrument is a piano and it helps to have separate control over the three. REAPER imported all three into one track where I get the joy of trying to separate them.
Piano with 3 staves, never seen that before. Do you have 3 hands?
Quote:
[*]Problem 3: I set up the track to use the same VST that I used within Sibelius. I quickly learned that all my dynamics were gone. It looks like articulations are gone. Pedaling was gone. Some tempo changes were preserved, but not the ritards and accelerandos. Repeats were gone.
MusicXML is designed to contain dynamics markings. Belive this works fine fromMusescore. Could be a Sibelius issue.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:17 AM   #3
freixas
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Piano with 3 staves, never seen that before. Do you have 3 hands?
Actually, it's common for experienced piano players to have performed pieces with three staves. The three staves can be played with two hands and are usually written as three for clarity.

In my case, I use three staves for better control over some dynamics. The third stave is hidden. The problem is that notation programs often assign a single velocity to all notes in a chord; pianist rarely play chords this way.

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MusicXML is designed to contain dynamics markings. Belive this works fine fro Musescore. Could be a Sibelius issue.
I'll check out the MuseScore MusicXML. Sibelius does have a lot of problems with MusicXML exports. They do much better with imports. This might be deliberate as they might not want to encourage music to head off to another notation program.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:25 AM   #4
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Piano with 3 staves, never seen that before. Do you have 3 hands?
It's not about having 3 hands, it's about clarity in certain pieces. It's a pretty normal thing. Doesn't happen often, but it does exist and it is used.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:55 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by freixas View Post
Actually, it's common for experienced piano players to have performed pieces with three staves. The three staves can be played with two hands and are usually written as three for clarity.

In my case, I use three staves for better control over some dynamics. The third stave is hidden. The problem is that notation programs often assign a single velocity to all notes in a chord; pianist rarely play chords this way.
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It's not about having 3 hands, it's about clarity in certain pieces. It's a pretty normal thing. Doesn't happen often, but it does exist and it is used.
Always learning something
Can you show me an example? (Well known piece preferably)

Anyway, following as I might be going the same route in a feew weeks and will depend on Sibelius MusicXML export.
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:26 PM   #6
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Always learning something
Can you show me an example? (Well known piece preferably)

Anyway, following as I might be going the same route in a few weeks and will depend on Sibelius MusicXML export.
Well, it's not like I have these memorized, so I used Google. That wasn't super-helpful, but I did find an example (with score fragment) at https://music.stackexchange.com/ques...ves-on-bruyers, apparently of Claude Debussy's Bruyères, 5th of the volume 2 of the Preludes for piano. Is the well known?

Honestly, no experienced pianist would blink at seeing three staves, but examples are rare. Usually, only a few systems have the three staves. I might have some examples in my library, but they wouldn't be easy to find.

Orchestral scores do something similar. For some instruments (e.g. usually winds), two instruments are combined in one staff in the conductor's score (mainly, to save space). There are special markers which tell the conductor how to disambiguate who is playing what. When things get really confusing (usually, when parts are rhythmically different), the two are separated until things get simpler.
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:49 PM   #7
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Always learning something
Can you show me an example? (Well known piece preferably)

Anyway, following as I might be going the same route in a feew weeks and will depend on Sibelius MusicXML export.
Just to short some. Debussy - Image, Villa-lobos - Festa no sertão, Poema singelo and Rchamaninoff - Prelude op3No2 has 4 staves in some places.
You can listen and see the scores on youtube.

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Old 09-17-2018, 12:52 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by freixas View Post
Claude Debussy's Bruyères, 5th of the volume 2 of the Preludes for piano.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beco View Post
Rchamaninoff - Prelude op3No2 has 4 staves in some places
Yes, this is making sense:

Thanks!
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:09 AM   #9
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[*]Add some way of processing articulations. Personally, I'd suggest skipping re-inventing the wheel and copy Sibelius's performance dictionary. There's a separate thread with some talk about using Notion's rules—spare us, please.
You have to understand that a Score-software and a DAW is two very different worlds,
and I'm not sure how much articulation and dynamics I'd like to auto-insert from one to the other.
From a score-standpoint a DAW s crude regarding score-look,
and from a DAW-standpoint score-articulation and dynamics are totally unmusical and childish.

As a composer it turns me nuts the hear choirs perform dynamic markings like a childs staircase.
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:16 AM   #10
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Doing a small test:

Musescore: https://stash.reaper.fm/34326/Dynami...iculation.mscz
MusicXML export: https://stash.reaper.fm/34327/Dynami...ation.musicxml
Reaper-import: https://stash.reaper.fm/34328/Dynami...ticulation.RPP

Most dynamics markings are imported into Reaper right,
but no affect on velocities
or or interpretation of arpeggios, lines and glissando.

Arpeggio and glissando are not imported.
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:15 AM   #11
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but no affect on velocities
Is there supposed to be an effect or are theses just supposed to be visual marks ?

-Michael
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:10 PM   #12
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Is there supposed to be an effect or are theses just supposed to be visual marks ?

-Michael
Depends, in Score-programs it has effect,
in Reaper it's just marks.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:18 AM   #13
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Default MusicXML import should handle time signature changes

Currently, importing a musicXML file results in tracks using the project time signature and not the time signature in the file. Also, of course, any time signature changes in the file are also ignored. I have a number of files with many time signature changes so fixing this manually is doable but painful.
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