Old 02-18-2021, 10:19 AM   #1
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Default Modding Behringer's X-Touch

(if you've done your own mods or opened the unit, post pics or links)

* be careful, it's possible to damage things or just make a mess! at your risk etc. *

I just got an X-touch (full size) and like most things about it - except the too bright and sterile white jog wheel.

It just slips off (gently wedge something underneath and slowly push off):



Inside are a few white SMD LEDs:



I painted them (just the LEDs) with transparent glass paint:



Tip #1 - you need only a tiny dip of paint (almost nothing).

Tip #2 - paint it while its on. The paint goes on unevenly and some LEDs may need a touch more, or some had too much and got too dark. Without the lights you can't see that.



Result:



_____

Shortcuts to more:

my BlueTack Fader cap mod

my in-progress lighting/feature CSI mod for the X-touch (track-coloured scribble strips and more)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0.jpg (38.6 KB, 4079 views)
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (24.6 KB, 4107 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (21.3 KB, 3908 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (26.8 KB, 3969 views)
File Type: jpg 4.jpg (42.7 KB, 4163 views)
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Old 02-19-2021, 04:04 AM   #2
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Default Well Done

Looks great. I really like the build quality of those X touches.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:17 AM   #3
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Looks great. I really like the build quality of those X touches.
Thanks, yeah I really like mine. I stopped looking a control surfaces since the old BCF2000 days, and surprised myself how well I get on with it.

Build quality is great, only thing I'm thinking of changing now is the fader knobs.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:38 AM   #4
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Build quality is great, only thing I'm thinking of changing now is the fader knobs.
Well in an ideal world the Solo buttons would be blue to match my own Reaper skin. Might replace the LEDs one day.
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Old 02-27-2021, 04:00 PM   #5
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I'm working on adding coloured scribble strips to CSI (it's already working): https://forums.cockos.com/showpost.p...&postcount=768
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Old 02-27-2021, 05:52 PM   #6
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I’m not a fan of the encoder on the X-Touch One. I’ve wondered if those can be replaced. But perhaps it’s not the encoder itself but just a poor cap on it. If you do change those, would be very interested with what and if it improves the knobs.
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Old 02-27-2021, 06:53 PM   #7
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I’m not a fan of the encoder on the X-Touch One. I’ve wondered if those can be replaced. But perhaps it’s not the encoder itself but just a poor cap on it. If you do change those, would be very interested with what and if it improves the knobs.
I haven't got to use my X-touch in anger yet, still busy programming for CSI. But I know what you mean, for me it's not just the cheapish feel, but also the low resolution.

I've actually been looking at making my own encoders for a custom mini surface, mainly for controlling lighting. I might have a possible 12bit solution (though it may end up being a bit lower in practice, haven't had time to prototype one yet). These would be endless but without notches, which I would prefer for most things. EDIT: actually they could also have a physically limited range (like analog dials but with very high resolution).

Of course hacking them into a Touch would most likely require a custom microcontroller with custom firmware. Something I can do, but it would be a big project and I've got a long todo list (music, art, videos and lighting stuff).

In the meantime there must be better knobs out there. what do you have in mind? any devices that have good knobs?
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Old 02-27-2021, 06:58 PM   #8
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.. thinking about it, you should be able to replace the X-touch encoders with the same type but with higher resolution, ie. more notches per turn (or possibly even notch-less). That should in theory work with the existing firmware.

Might be worth checking out.
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Old 02-27-2021, 11:27 PM   #9
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I doubt that it could be possible to improve the resolutiopn of the encoders without decently modifying the firmware.
Regarding the firmware I would suggest several - IMHO very important - pure firmware Mods (for the XTouch Compact).
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I doubt that it could be possible to improve the resolutiopn of the encoders without decently modifying the firmware.
Regarding the firmware I would suggest several - IMHO very important - pure firmware Mods (for the XTouch Compact).
-Michael
I've dabbled with encoders (but not a lot) and IIRC some of them (the incremental type, which I'm sure are used) just output an up or down pulse, so an encoder that uses more notches but outputs the same type of pulses should work fine. it's like turning the original encoder faster as far as the firmware is concerned. obviously would need to confirm that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incremental_encoder

also you can actually de-click the notched encoders. they usually have little ball bearings in them which you can remove to make them notch-less.
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:10 AM   #11
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firmware hacking would be cool. I'd like the scribble colour sysex supported in MCU mode, so it can be used via USB (right now only the XCtrl mode supports it, and that doesn't work via USB).

this isn't really my area, but if we can find pics of the internals we'll see what processor is running the firmware. if they encrypt it though it might get tricky. but otherwise the sysex code is already in there, it would just need to be added to the MCU mode code.

do we have any hackers here?

in my crazier moments it would be tempting to just completely replace the processor with custom firmware, and driving all the LEDs directly from that. That would give you more options - super high res encoders, fader interpolation, extra LED toggles (like the jog wheel). I'm unlikely to do that (massive project), but if I did I'd replace the LEDs with RGBs, and then you could have any colour and shade for every LED (including the scribble strips).

I work with RGB LEDs so that would be fun. But, time ...
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:23 AM   #12
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BTW, why didn't they include a meter for the master fader?
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:00 AM   #13
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X=CTRL was already reverse engineered, CSI should be able to add color editing of the strips.

http://www.budgetfeatures.com/XctlDO...uch%20V1.0.pdf
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Old 02-28-2021, 12:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Win Conway View Post
X=CTRL was already reverse engineered, CSI should be able to add color editing of the strips.

http://www.budgetfeatures.com/XctlDO...uch%20V1.0.pdf
I'm just adding it, it's already working: https://forums.cockos.com/showpost.p...&postcount=768
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:21 PM   #15
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I'd like to change the fader knobs to something more solid and more easily conductive.

Has anyone seen compatible metal ones? There are some 'metalized' (ie. conductive) plastic ones available, but they're what we already have (although the plastic might ne nicer).

Full metal would be ideal, also for encoder knobs. Something heavy like zinc alloy would be cool.
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Old 03-12-2021, 05:42 PM   #16
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So I've been thinking about replacing the fader caps/knobs as they feel a bit flimsy, but I'm not sure the replacements are any better and can't easily get a sample (thank you Brexit). So instead, how about some weight to the existing caps?

the idea is to fill the empty space underneath with metal pieces or something else with weigh. That should feel a bit better.

Downsides - motors have to work a little harder. Premature failure? More lag?

Thoughts?

EDIT: I just rolled up some Blue Tack and stuffed it in there. It's not super heavy, but it does make a subtle difference. Just bouncing the removed cap on my table feels quite different, less flimsy, as does moving the fader with it. Something heavier would be a nice mod.

Is there anything simple to work with like Blue Tack, but heavier?
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Old 03-12-2021, 06:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
I just rolled up some Blue Tack and stuffed it in there. It's not super heavy, but it does make a subtle difference. Just bouncing the removed cap on my table feels quite different, less flimsy, as does moving the fader with it. Something heavier would be a nice mod.

Is there anything simple to work with like Blue Tack, but heavier?

.. like this:



Watch it bounce:
http://r-i-l.net/_pics/reaper/caps_bounce.mp4

it definitely feels better, less resonant & flimsy, yet doesn't slow down the fader. something heavier would do it.

EDIT: so I'm thinking some soft metal that's easy to get into the right shape. Either a paste or Blue Tack like that can just be pushed in (and is easily reversible for warranty etc). Or how about pieces of traditional metallic toothpaste tubes? they're fairly malleable.
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Old 03-18-2021, 11:38 AM   #18
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I'd like the scribble colour sysex supported in MCU mode, so it can be used via USB (right now only the XCtrl mode supports it, and that doesn't work via USB).
...
So ya the Ctrl and CtrlRel modes were added in firmware 1.21, so you should be able to do this over USB. The Extender documentation provides the sysex messages for doing so.
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Old 04-12-2021, 03:31 PM   #19
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quick update on my CSI mod, it's now a monster and does some cool new tricks beyond XCTRL mode. there will be a beta phase not too far away (gotta finish one last feature).

as a teaser, I now have full XCTRL protocol support with coloured scribble strips & everything else working, including network mode and a bunch of general improvements + some nice new features.

I'll announce the beta here (sub the thread if you haven't already) ...
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Old 04-12-2021, 03:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeBased View Post
quick update on my CSI mod, it's now a monster and does some cool new tricks beyond XCTRL mode. there will be a beta phase not too far away (gotta finish one last feature).

as a teaser, I now have full XCTRL protocol support with coloured scribble strips & everything else working, including network mode and a bunch of general improvements + some nice new features.

I'll announce the beta here (sub the thread if you haven't already) ...
That's pretty cool. Did you modify the CSI source code to make it work? Are you planning on doing a pull request to integrate the changes? I don't have an X-Touch, but if I was buying a new surface for Reaper right now, that would probably be at the top of my list.
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Old 04-12-2021, 03:53 PM   #21
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That's pretty cool. Did you modify the CSI source code to make it work? Are you planning on doing a pull request to integrate the changes? I don't have an X-Touch, but if I was buying a new surface for Reaper right now, that would probably be at the top of my list.
yep it's all new code & I'll offer it to Geoff for inclusion once it's out of beta (however he wants it). there are also some general improvements that should work for other midi surfaces.
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Old 04-12-2021, 04:46 PM   #22
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This is very exciting! Can't wait! Thanks for your work!
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Old 04-15-2021, 06:19 AM   #23
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yep it's all new code & I'll offer it to Geoff for inclusion once it's out of beta (however he wants it). there are also some general improvements that should work for other midi surfaces.
Fantastic work DeBased!
As i wrote you in PM, do you think it could be possible to make a simple CTRL version for extenders that don't use XCTL MODE? it's a pitty not be able to use all 3 surfaces toghether :-(

Anyway, i do not understand how i can see my xtouch from your plugin in reaper if i can't define a midi device for I/O, am i missing something?

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Old 04-15-2021, 07:20 AM   #24
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Looking forward to your beta to learn from it. Started just noting down what I want as zones and such for my own x-touch before starting to program.
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:06 PM   #25
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I'm nearly feature complete, then it's writing docs and making demo videos for the beta. ie. not too long now.

One catch is that parts of my UI additions don't work cross-platform (specifically custom bitmaps on Windows-style dialogs). And I'm only set up to compile for Windows and that probably won't change. I'll see what can be done, worst-case the beta will be Windows only initially.

re. CTRL mode, I haven't looked into it at all. When my beta is live, you can try the XCTRL / CTRL hybrid mode to see how it works (I assume it splits controls into each camp). The catch with CTRL mode seems to be only 7 bit fader support which sucks if true (according to Behringer's PDF, but I haven't seen it verified). Maybe 14bit is in there somewhere.
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:09 PM   #26
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I'm nearly feature complete, then it's writing docs and making demo videos for the beta. ie. not too long now.

One catch is that parts of my UI additions don't work cross-platform (specifically custom bitmaps on Windows style dialogs). And I'm only set up to compile for Windows and that probably won't change. I'll see what can be done, worst-case the beta will be Windows only initially.

re. CTRL mode, I haven't looked into it at all. when my beta is live, you can try the XCTRL / CTRL hybrid mode to see how it works (I assume it splits controls into each camp). as I mentioned in a PM, the catch with CTRL mode seems to be only 7bit fader support which sucks if true (according to Behringer's PDF, but haven't seen it verified).
Can't wait! Thanks for all the work you're doing? Will this be something a beginner like myself will be able to implement for the X-Touch Universal Controller?
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:16 PM   #27
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Can't wait! Thanks for all the work you're doing? Will this be something a beginner like myself will be able to implement for the X-Touch Universal Controller?
yes, the XTouch XCTRL mode just works (sans any bugs) but gives you automatic coloured scribble strips. its MST file is almost identical to the MCU version as most things work the same (just the encoders and time display work differently) but the file is provided.

Note XCTRL mode only works via the MIDI IO or LAN port. The LAN (network) mode again just works, but was written from scratch. Amongst other handy things, it has a higher bandwidth than MIDI which is useful for some things I'll keep stumm about .

The other new features (bar one) that should work for most/all MIDI surfaces are just settings in the MIDI surface UI, so easy to play with (no programming required).
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:23 PM   #28
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oh, and I designed a logo for CSI (if Geoff approves).
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Old 04-23-2021, 03:19 PM   #29
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yes, the XTouch XCTRL mode just works (sans any bugs) but gives you automatic coloured scribble strips. its MST file is almost identical to the MCU version as most things work the same (just the encoders and time display work differently) but the file is provided.

Note XCTRL mode only works via the MIDI IO or LAN port. The LAN (network) mode again just works, but was written from scratch. Amongst other handy things, it has a higher bandwidth than MIDI which is useful for some things I'll keep stumm about .

The other new features (bar one) that should work for most/all MIDI surfaces are just settings in the MIDI surface UI, so easy to play with (no programming required).
I'm sorry for not knowing much about this. I have an X-Touch on order (currently out of stock at Sweetwater), and have been pouring over threads and videos. While I have a better understanding of CSI, it still seems very daunting. I can't find a video that shows an exact implementation of CSI mods specifically for the X-Touch.

I understand that everyone has their own preferences for Reaper, so assigning a different function/action to a certain button would be a personal choice. I would love to be able see different "templates" (for lack of a better term)...to see how people have customized their .mst or .zon file (I'm not sure which one...or is it both). Seeing people's configs would not only provide ideas to others on CSI customizations that maybe they hadn't thought of, it would be especially helpful for beginners...to be able to simply copy and paste an X-Touch config to try it AND learn from it.

As for your work on XCTRL, I really don't understand what it is. I mean I understand that it adds colors to the scribble strips. Are those colors mapped to the specific colors being used for the different Reaper tracks or are they random colors?

I also think I understand that XCTRL only works with a MIDI (or LAN) connection (not USB). The X-Touch has USB and MIDI, so does that mean I'll need an adapter to connect the X-Touch midi out to one of my pc's USB ports? I have an interface with both USB and MIDI, but I assume that has nothing to do with this. I guess the same question applies to LAN mode (connecting the X-Touch USB to pc's LAN)?

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oh, and I designed a logo for CSI (if Geoff approves).
Have you shown it to Geoff yet? Seems like he's poured his heart and soul into this project, but from what I've read, he's the first to say that many people have contributed to it.
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Old 04-23-2021, 04:25 PM   #30
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I'm sorry for not knowing much about this. I have an X-Touch on order (currently out of stock at Sweetwater), and have been pouring over threads and videos. While I have a better understanding of CSI, it still seems very daunting. I can't find a video that shows an exact implementation of CSI mods specifically for the X-Touch.
Yeah CSI has a steep learning curve, but then you can do just about everything with it (exactly like Reaper). But there are XTouch files already included, so you can get easily up and running, and then learn about customisation.

There are also plenty of people sharing configs and tricks, it's a great community project. Join this thread: https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=245280

Quote:
As for your work on XCTRL, I really don't understand what it is. I mean I understand that it adds colors to the scribble strips. Are those colors mapped to the specific colors being used for the different Reaper tracks or are they random colors?
The XTouch scribble strips only support 7 colours including white, but they only work in XCTRL mode. My mod matches those to whatever track colours you have set in Reaper automatically.

Quote:
I also think I understand that XCTRL only works with a MIDI (or LAN) connection (not USB).
If your interface has MIDI in and out, you can connect the XTouch directly to it. Behringer has not implemented USB for the XCTRL mode as they designed it to control their other mixers only.

You can also connect to your PC's (or router's) LAN port. That is the best option as it gives you higher bandwidth than MIDI (avoids message congestion/lag), you can do everything with a single wire, and LAN cables can also be ultra long. But MIDI is fine too.

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Have you shown it to Geoff yet? Seems like he's poured his heart and soul into this project, but from what I've read, he's the first to say that many people have contributed to it.
all will be revealed ...
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Old 04-23-2021, 04:33 PM   #31
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Yeah CSI has a steep learning curve, but then you can do just about everything with it (exactly like Reaper). But there are XTouch files already included, so you can get easily up and running, and then learn about customisation.

There are also plenty of people sharing configs and tricks, it's a great community project. Join this thread: https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=245280



The XTouch scribble strips only support 7 colours including white, but they only work in XCTRL mode. My mod matches those to whatever track colours you have set in Reaper automatically.



If your interface has MIDI in and out, you can connect the XTouch directly to it. Behringer has not implemented USB for the XCTRL mode as they designed it to control their other mixers.

You can also connect to your PC's (or router's) LAN port. That is the best option as it gives you higher bandwidth than MIDI (avoids message congestion/lag\), you can do everything with a single wire, and LAN cables can also be ultra long. But MIDI is fine too.



all will be revealed ...
Thanks for all the info. I will join that thread right away. I'm still a bit confused about using LAN. My modem and router are on the opposite side of the room, and I ran a long CAT 6e or 7 (I forget) to my pc's LAN port (not using WIFI on my Reaper pc). To what am I connecting the the ethernet cable to? Does the X-Touch have a LAN port?
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Old 04-23-2021, 04:43 PM   #32
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To what am I connecting the the ethernet cable to? Does the X-Touch have a LAN port?
Yes it does. In Mackie (MCU) mode you can use it to connect via RTP Midi, but the XCTRL version works completely differently (but is taken care of for you). I find the trickiest part with LAN is getting it set up right, but you only need to do that once.

BTW I'm almost in the same boat when it comes to CSI, as soon as I looked into it (right after getting my XTouch and wanting scribble strip colours) I realised I could improve it massively - so I've barely looked into all the stuff CSI can do apart from the basics. Once I'm done with the code (nearly) I can actually start setting it up myself. But I've been listening in on the queries on the thread I linked, and it is very deep. For example, you can combine several different control surfaces (including things like virtual iPad OSC control surfaces) into a single control system.

So yeah, pretty cool but the basics work out of the box.
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Old 04-26-2021, 03:13 AM   #33
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can't wait, consider me as beta tester!

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Old 06-11-2021, 05:49 PM   #34
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yes, the XTouch XCTRL mode just works (sans any bugs) but gives you automatic coloured scribble strips. its MST file is almost identical to the MCU version as most things work the same (just the encoders and time display work differently) but the file is provided.

Note XCTRL mode only works via the MIDI IO or LAN port. The LAN (network) mode again just works, but was written from scratch. Amongst other handy things, it has a higher bandwidth than MIDI which is useful for some things I'll keep stumm about .

The other new features (bar one) that should work for most/all MIDI surfaces are just settings in the MIDI surface UI, so easy to play with (no programming required).
Hi! I've been off forum and away from my X-Touch for a good few months and have to say it seems to have been all go since you appeared on the scene!! I notice you said all your work was Windows only when you were in the early phases; did you get anyone to port to MacOS? I'd love to test it, but wouldn't know where to start in porting to the Mac.

Has 1.21 made it any easier to implement the colour without using LAN or MIDI? Or is that still a requirement?
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:23 AM   #35
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hey, that was good timing. my life took some twists, so the X-touch was on the backburner since pretty much my last post. I didn't actually use it at all until yesterday, when I started doing a remix. I was just using my mod as an end-user, and it works well. there's a known issue, but rather than wait until I get time to fix it, I'll release what I have.

I can only create & test Windows versions here. Geoff (CSI creator) offered to try Mac builds (his platform), but there's a couple things that I don't know how to port over as Reaper's API doesn't support them (so you need platform-specfiic code and I know nothing about Macs).

So I will release Windows first and then see if Geoff (or anyone) can help port those bits.

re. colour, to my knowledge, MIDI and LAN are still the only good way to get it. There is the CTRL (not XCTRL) mode that apparently supports it, but it seems it only supports 7 bit fader values, which to me is a deal breaker, so I haven't spent any time on it. anyone want check that with a MIDI monitor?
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:33 PM   #36
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I have verified that the CTRL and CTRLREL modes do indeed support color scribbles, but unfortunately they are indeed only 7-bit.
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Old 06-18-2021, 03:48 PM   #37
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I have verified that the CTRL and CTRLREL modes do indeed support color scribbles, but unfortunately they are indeed only 7-bit.
great thanks.
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Old 09-28-2021, 01:51 PM   #38
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Hey DeBased,

Any update on when you'll be making your source code available? I'd love to check it out!
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Old 03-14-2022, 02:18 AM   #39
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Hi there, your project seems super intresting! Do I get it right, that you are basically using the xctrl mode on the x touch to interact directly with csi or are you making it to support mcu?! I am a bit confused.

And another question, does it support the extenders as well?
So far I have a two xtenders and one xtouch set up through CSI, but the colored scribblescripts are a serious improvement, and I agree that 7 bit Faders are a dealbreaker! So this seems super promising.
Would love to hear from you!
Best regards
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Old 03-21-2022, 11:24 AM   #40
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Do I get it right, that you are basically using the xctrl mode on the x touch to interact directly with csi or are you making it to support mcu?
Yes, he is making CSI work with the XCtl mode of the full size XTouch. MCU is already supported by CSI. Unfortunately, however, the color scribble strips are not available in MCU mode. Only XCtl, CtlRel, and Ctl modes, of which only XCtl supports 14-bit faders.

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And another question, does it support the extenders as well?
AFAIK the extender does not support XCtl, and the only way to get color scribble strips on those units are in the CtlRel and Ctl modes, neither of which support 14-bit faders.
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