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Old 03-13-2023, 02:48 AM   #1
Phazma
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Default Video background project - workflow benefits?

When the video on background project feature branch was announced, people working with film music/audio got very excited and said it is a huge deal and requests connected to it started popping up and being implemented.

As someone who works also in audio post (but since not too long and not yet on Reaper, thinking of how I could do that in Reaper) I am curious to understand what benefits this has opposed to having the video in the main project.

The only things I can think of are:

- better use of system resources (mutlicore processing etc..)?
- less risk of accidentally cutting/editng/moving video (tough the video can be locked)
- tidier project without elements that shouldn’t be touched (tough the video track could simply be hidden)

But I guess that is not it, given how excited people got.

So what am I missing? Are there any workflow benefits to it? I’d like to get excited by it too but I don’t know if the benefits I see now are enough to go through dealing with extra projects. Maybe if the CPU impact is significantly lower I’d do it.

I hope that this thread is not perceived as extra clutter in the pre forum (didn’t want to deviate an existing dev cycle thread either) and that some filmcomposers and postproduction guys can sum the benefits up so I don’t miss out on a potentially interesting features to integrate into my workflow.
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Old 03-13-2023, 04:56 AM   #2
inthevoid
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
When the video on background project feature branch was announced, people working with film music/audio got very excited and said it is a huge deal and requests connected to it started popping up and being implemented.

So what am I missing? Are there any workflow benefits to it? I’d like to get excited by it too but I don’t know if the benefits I see now are enough to go through dealing with extra projects. Maybe if the CPU impact is significantly lower I’d do it.
- Managing cut changes and cue edits/conforms when working with multiple cues.

Especially when you're working on a feature length film with sometimes 50+ cues, all using complex and different tempo / time signature maps, having all the music for the film in one project is completely infeasible as any changes to the picture would wreak havoc when trying to conform your score.

The way film composers tend to work is in one project per music cue, so that when the film is cut or rearranged, instead of having to manage possibly thousands of tempo and time signature changes to get all the cues to line back up again to the right timecodes and bar structure, you just need to update the start timecode (let's say, measure 1) of the cue you're working on to match its new place in the new cut and then make changes from there in the individual cue project.

It makes a lot more sense when writing music to picture to keep all your MUSICAL time (bpm, bar structure etc) contained within individual cues, and to have that kept separate from ABSOLUTE time in the film (e.g. the exact frame at which a cue begins on.)

This is where having video running separately from the music cue projects, on a 'global' timeline so to speak, becomes incredibly useful. Previously, to work with a cue per project, you would have to add the film to every single cue project to begin with, and then every single time the picture was updated and you need to rework your cues, add the new cut to every single cue and update the cue timecodes... You can quickly see how this ends up spiralling into complete madness keeping track of everything with new cuts sometimes arriving from the edit faster than you can blink.

Now, a new film cut arrives, I drop it in to the main timeline at the right timeline, and that's it. Everything is synced up. If I decide to move a cue 5 frames later in the master project, I move it and it's already done in the subproject. The only minor thing is that I just need to update the timecode visually in the cue subprojects for the ruler to read the same value as the picture timecode (Devs, it would be great for this to be automatic as well if you're reading!)

As a personal hacky workaround, up to this point I have been using a separate instance of Reaper linked via MTC to my composing Reaper which essentially gives this behaviour, with a LOT of caveats.

Having everything now able to run seamlessly in one Reaper instance using a main film timeline and cue subprojects, with all the benefits of being able to quickly flip between project tabs, move subprojects around in the master timeline and them stay synced, run loopback dialog / fx / temp music tracks from the master project to cue tabs... is a gamechanger for us film composers.

Edit: This doesn't have anything to do with computing power currently, just an incredible time saver, though an even more optimised workflow is potentially possible if it were possible to route MIDI between project tabs. If routing MIDI between tabs were possible, You could theoretically have all your VSTs for composing in the master project, and your cue subprojects would send MIDI to the master project and trigger the sounds there - which would mean you only need to load your VSTs (which can be in the 1000s on a big orchestral template) once, and then jump in and out of subprojects making edits at lightning speed.

Last edited by inthevoid; 03-13-2023 at 05:12 AM.
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Old 03-13-2023, 06:34 AM   #3
Phazma
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- Managing cut changes and cue edits/conforms when working with multiple cues.
.

Having everything now able to run seamlessly in one Reaper instance using a main film timeline and cue subprojects, with all the benefits of being able to quickly flip between project tabs, move subprojects around in the master timeline and them stay synced, run loopback dialog / fx / temp music tracks from the master project to cue tabs... is a gamechanger for us film composers .
I see, makes sense now! So the film project is the main project and is referenced by various subprojects for the individual cues. Thanks for elaborating!

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Originally Posted by inthevoid View Post
Edit: This doesn't have anything to do with computing power currently, just an incredible time saver, though an even more optimised workflow is potentially possible if it were possible to route MIDI between project tabs. If routing MIDI between tabs were possible, You could theoretically have all your VSTs for composing in the master project, and your cue subprojects would send MIDI to the master project and trigger the sounds there - which would mean you only need to load your VSTs (which can be in the 1000s on a big orchestral template) once, and then jump in and out of subprojects making edits at lightning speed.
Ah, a bit like the VEPro thing? I agree, that would be useful.
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Old 03-13-2023, 06:50 AM   #4
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If it's any help, you can send MIDI from one tab to a virtual hardware port (eg MIDIYoke on windows), and set the record input of your 'host' tab to that port.
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Old 03-13-2023, 06:54 AM   #5
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Ah, a bit like the VEPro thing? I agree, that would be useful.
Indeed! VEPro works of course, but an integrated solution in Reaper would of course be much more streamlined workflow wise (and much more flexible, as with anything in Reaper). We're "just" missing the ability to route MIDI between subprojects (though not knowing anything about the internal workings of Reaper, this might be much easier said than done!)
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Old 03-13-2023, 06:56 AM   #6
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If it's any help, you can send MIDI from one tab to a virtual hardware port (eg MIDIYoke on windows), and set the record input of your 'host' tab to that port.
Thanks, this is really interesting. I wonder if there's any issues with it receiving tons of MIDI notes & CCs etc information at once?
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